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Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 12:47 pm
by Jamaaliver
Jeff Schultz wrote:And so it begins...
There goes Kyle Korver. There Hawks reportedly will receive a 2019 protected first-round pick and Mike Dunleavy in deal, according to reports. Think: Almost any Braves trade from the last two years.
...from a basketball perspective, a deal makes sense. The Hawks were on a four-game winning streak following Wednesday’s win in Orlando but their 19-16 record did not suggest to the front office, including coach and team president Mike Budenholzer, that the team was on track to do anything special in the playoffs. Korver was in the final year of his contract (just over $5.2 million) and was not going to be re-signed.
...it wouldn’t be surprising to see the Hawks begin the rebuilding process now and that dealing Millsap, who is coveted by contenders like Toronto, Boston and Oklahoma City, could bring back valuable assets.
HereThoughts?
Predictions?
Concerns?
You guys hoping for a retool or a full rebuild?
Should we strip it all down to Dennis and KB24?
Who
is the most important player now? Dennis?
Do we have any cornerstone/building block players at all?
Can we still make the playoffs if we lose Millsap and Korver? Do we even want that?
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 1:42 pm
by Jamaaliver
Mark Bradley wrote:At issue now is whether...Budenholzer knows how to rebuild. But here’s where having your coach as team czar isn’t the greatest of ideas. Coaches always think they can make something of a team — until they realize they can’t.
At this moment, the Hawks are fourth in the East and atop the Southeast Division. (They’ve won five in a row.) They’re nowhere near terrible, but they’re going nowhere. Millsap, who’ll turn 32 next month, is all but certain to leave as a free agent in July, and that would leave the Hawks with a core of Howard, Schroder, Bazemore and Tim Hardaway Jr., which is decidedly middle-tier.
The only way to get better is to get younger and hope for the best. The Hawks will receive a protected first-round pick from Cleveland, which is something. They can get more for Millsap. That trade needs to happen soon.
Here
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 2:21 pm
by MaceCase
Ah, Bradley and Schultz. The two guys that only "cover" the Hawks when they are already in national news and they think they can siphon a few hits.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 3:19 pm
by Jamaaliver
Chris Vivlamore wrote:Another roster reconstruction is underway.
Other players who could be next include Paul Millsap and Thabo Sefolosha and perhaps Tim Hardaway Jr.
Neither Millsap nor Sefolosha would speculate on the direction of the organization following the Korver deal. The Hawks are talking to a number of teams about the availability of Millsap. The Kings are very interested, according to a person familiar with the situation. Other teams that have reportedly shown interest include the Raptors, Nuggets and 76ers.
What the Hawks get in return will depend greatly on whether the trade partner can get more than a rental player. Millsap has an opt-out year on his contract and can become an unrestricted free agent.
The Hawks lost Al Horford to free agency and Jeff Teague to trade during the summer as part of the roster remake. The team lost DeMarre Carroll to free agency the previous summer. Millsap is the lone remaining starter from the 60-win season.
Mike Muscala, Kris Humphries, Ryan Kelly, Tiago Splitter, Mike Scott, Sefolosha and Hardaway Jr. are unrestricted or restricted free agents this summer as well.
Here
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 3:56 pm
by MaceCase
See the difference between the guy who actually covers the team and the buzzards? C-Viv just reports on what he knows, the facts. He doesn't pass off his inferences into Bud's thinking process as though it was all personally blurted to him over a dinner conversation and he doesn't offer up his clairvoyant vision of the future as though it's a certainty. Just the facts.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:02 pm
by Jamaaliver
Well, yeah. C-Viv is a Beat Reporter.
Schultz and Bradley are columnists.
All three have media access to players, execs, etc. The Beat Writer posts facts, stats and on-the-record quotes only.
The columnists have the liberty to summarize
and speculate* based on internal conversations on and off the record and give educated opinons. Like Wilbon and Kornheiser on PTI.
Sekou and Mike Cunningham also had similar restrictions during their tenures as Beat Writers.
But now Mike Cunningham is a columnist, too. And he takes a similar tact as Jeff and Mark:
Hawks stand pat, and it’s a mistake
The Hawks are lining up to take another shot with this core now and will, more than likely, try it again next season.
I think that’s a mistake.
Maybe the Hawks recapture their spark from a year ago. But even if they do, will it be good enough to make a serious stab at the championship?
If Horford signs elsewhere this summer, it decimates Budenholzer’s grand plan. If the Hawks do re-sign Horford they still have to figure out what to do with Jeff Teague, whose value likely won’t be as high as it is now because his contract expires after next season.
I was in favor of Budenholzer letting go of those 2015 memories and dealing with the reality that the 2016 Hawks aren’t a contender. I don’t think this core (sorry) will be a contender going forward, either
Feb 2016
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:09 pm
by MaceCase
Media credentials does not grant you internal access to the inner workings of an organization nor players. You simply only observe what is shown from a closer viewpoint. None of these guys excepting C-Viv cover the Hawks in the least yet you are holding their speculations and opinions on the Hawks as though they are "summaries". They are not. They offer no further insight than any other fan on the internet.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:37 pm
by Jamaaliver
MaceCase wrote:Media credentials does not grant you internal access to the inner workings of an organization nor players.
None of these guys excepting C-Viv cover the Hawks in the least yet you are holding their speculations and opinions on the Hawks as though they are "summaries". They are not. They offer no further insight than any other fan on the internet.
Okay, Mace. No one anywhere gets any face time with anyone. Except Chris Vivlamore.

Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 6:05 pm
by MaceCase
Okay, Jamaaliver, calm down. Everyone everywhere gets face time with everyone. If he has a media credential then he has to have the "real scoop" on everything.
Not at all surprising you'd fall for the appeal to authority fallacy since you've hit every other fallacy on the fallacy bingo card. I'm sure if Johnny Utah of the Mobile Digest offered his take on the Hawks situation you'd assume he generated it from a year long investigative review of the Hawks with numerous interviews with senior officials done under oath, possibly while waterboarding was occuring because.....media credentials.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 6:14 pm
by Jamaaliver
MaceCase wrote:Okay, Jamaaliver, calm down. Everyone everywhere gets face time with everyone. If he has a media credential then he has to have the "real scoop" on everything.
<sigh>
Okay, Mace.
And, I do love you.


Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 6:28 pm
by D21
Jeff Schultz wrote:...from a basketball perspective, a deal makes sense. The Hawks were on a four-game winning streak following Wednesday’s win in Orlando but their 19-16 record did not suggest to the front office, including coach and team president Mike Budenholzer, that the team was on track to do anything special in the playoffs. Korver was in the final year of his contract (just over $5.2 million) and was not going to be re-signed
Hahaha, if Bazemore was playing like he should, none of this discussion would exist, because ATL would be ahead of BOS, and almost on the same level than TOR.
So if ATL saw they won't make anything in playoffs, while the team is not playing at his full potential, why should CHA, BOS and TOR think they can ? But we they don't talk about them like that.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 7:05 pm
by Jamaaliver
D21 wrote:Hahaha, if Bazemore was playing like he should, none of this discussion would exist, because ATL would be ahead of BOS, and almost on the same level than TOR.
So if ATL saw they won't make anything in playoffs, while the team is not playing at his full potential, why should CHA, BOS and TOR think they can ? But we they don't talk about them like that.
So do you believe the decision to shop Korver, Thabo and Millsap is an overreaction?
Do you attribute our struggles this season on both sides of the ball...mostly to Kent Bazemore?
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 7:25 pm
by PandaKidd
Jamaaliver wrote:MaceCase wrote:Okay, Jamaaliver, calm down. Everyone everywhere gets face time with everyone. If he has a media credential then he has to have the "real scoop" on everything.
<sigh>
Okay, Mace.
And, I do love you.


+1 for Love Actually reference
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 7:27 pm
by PandaKidd
Jamaaliver wrote:D21 wrote:Hahaha, if Bazemore was playing like he should, none of this discussion would exist, because ATL would be ahead of BOS, and almost on the same level than TOR.
So if ATL saw they won't make anything in playoffs, while the team is not playing at his full potential, why should CHA, BOS and TOR think they can ? But we they don't talk about them like that.
So do you believe the decision to shop Korver, Thabo and Millsap is an overreaction?
Do you attribute our struggles this season on both sides of the ball...mostly to Kent Bazemore?
TALENT. PERIOD. Thats all it is and thats ALWAYS been the Hawks problem. Never a superstar, never a game changer, just GOOD players. In the end the NBA is about superstars. The hawks dont have one and havent had one in forever. Millsap is a GREAT player, hes not Paul George, hes not Lebron, hes not Melo, hes not that caliber of a player and hes old
THe problem is a lack of talent. Korver isnt a starter, Thabo isnt a starter, Dwight isnt Dwight from 2009-2010, Bazemore PROB isnt a starter on anyones elses team if the Cap didnt go up 180% last offseason.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 7:42 pm
by MaceCase
D21 wrote:Jeff Schultz wrote:...from a basketball perspective, a deal makes sense. The Hawks were on a four-game winning streak following Wednesday’s win in Orlando but their 19-16 record did not suggest to the front office, including coach and team president Mike Budenholzer, that the team was on track to do anything special in the playoffs. Korver was in the final year of his contract (just over $5.2 million) and was not going to be re-signed
Hahaha, if Bazemore was playing like he should, none of this discussion would exist, because ATL would be ahead of BOS, and almost on the same level than TOR.
So if ATL saw they won't make anything in playoffs, while the team is not playing at his full potential, why should CHA, BOS and TOR think they can ? But we they don't talk about them like that.
You missed the best part
Jeff Schultz wrote:...it wouldn’t be surprising to see the Hawks begin the rebuilding process now and that dealing Millsap, who is coveted by contenders like Toronto, Boston and Oklahoma City, could bring back valuable assets.
The team that's 1.5 games ahead in the standings of the Hawks and 0-8 against top teams that the Hawks have beaten and the team that's 7th in the West are considered contenders. But he has media credentials though.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2017 10:22 pm
by PandaKidd
As a Boston homer, Celtics are not contenders.
Neither is OKC.
Even a Millsap acquisition wouldn't make me think they are contenders
Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2017 12:15 am
by Jamaaliver
Random thoughts and observations from around the web:
Another issue that no one has touched on, if (when?) we trade Millsap...what should we do with 31 year old Dwight Howard?
"We’re ready to take it to another level with both [Bazemore] and Dwight. ... It’s gonna be a special year.” Coach
Bud at the Press Conference before the start of the season.
...their 20-16 record isn’t particularly inspiring, especially after a 1-10 stretch followed their promising 9-2 start.
The Korver move signifies an inevitable fire sale to ensure the Hawks cash in on their current assets and jumpstart a much-needed rebuild. It’s the smartest path for a franchise that’s straddled this line for years now, but it’s not exactly an enjoyable one for fans either.
Here
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Mon Jan 9, 2017 12:21 pm
by Jamaaliver
Jeff Schultz wrote:...it wouldn’t be surprising to see the Hawks begin the rebuilding process now and that dealing Millsap, who is coveted by contenders like Toronto, Boston and Oklahoma City, could bring back valuable assets.
While I might not agree with his assessment that OKC (or Boston) is a true contender, other outlets are also reporting Boston's interest in Millsap.
I wonder if Ainge is interested in snatching Paul just to prevent TOR from getting him and solidifying the Raptors as the 2nd best team in the East:
There could be major changes in Atlanta after the Hawks decided to move 3-point sharpshooter Kyle Korver to the Cavaliers for a protected first-round pick. The Hawks were burned by Al Horford’s free agency — he left Atlanta for the Celtics, with the Hawks receiving no compensation — so management plans to turn its impending free agents into assets.
Paul Millsap could be next to go as he as an opt-out clause this summer that he plans to exercise.
Would the Celtics be interested in Millsap? Some things would likely need to happen: Millsap would have to agree to honor the final year of his contract and the Celtics would have to offer the Hawks a chip for the long-term future — likely one of those Brooklyn picks — along with the expiring contract of Amir Johnson and likely another starter to match up salaries. It would be quite a sacrifice for the Celtics, and it would also mean Horford would have to move to center, a position he would prefer not to play . . ..
HereWe turn 3 months of Paul Millsap into a lottery pick...Mike Bud deserves Exec of the Year honors.
I'd literally give up anything for one of those picks.
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:14 pm
by Jamaaliver
It appears the Hawks have had a change of heart regarding moving our expiring veterans for future assets...leaving the rebootooling efforts on the backburner.
Bleacher Report speculates that as we approach the trade deadline, we'll have to strongly reconsider the tactic:
NBA Trade Deadline Predictions
Hawks Hold a Fire Sale
Paul Millsap is off the market. Head coach Mike Budenholzer said Atlanta "feels strongly" about the current mix of players...
All of this feels like posturing—an attempt to drive up the price on soon-to-be free agents, including Millsap. It's hard to put faith in a sudden about-face after all this noise.
Hardaway and Sefolosha will be due lucrative raises over the summer, and then-32-year-old Millsap (player option) will be eligible for a salary worth [$35+ million] in the first year.
..the talent gap between the Hawks and Cavaliers is enormous. That chasm isn't going away any time soon—not with this core.
There is no way Atlanta can justifiably re-invest in a nucleus that's already hit its ceiling.
Bleacher Report
Re: Hawks start retool/rebuild early
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:55 pm
by mlloyd10
Have you guys heard of anything involving Howard? He would be perfect on the Bucks splitting Minutes with Monroe.