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How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Fri Feb 3, 2017 6:43 pm
by Jamaaliver
It's a question the front office has to be considering greatly at this point. Over the past 20 months, we've
discussed his acquisition and debated
the merits of extending him.
And Tim, Jr. has played very well this season. Proving that he is, undoubtedly, a rotation standout -- his scoring ability likely makes him a starting caliber SG moving forward as well.
But, as he approaches Restricted Free Agency, what are we willing to pay to keep him. He'll get top offers. If Allen Crabbe got $17 million per year last offseason, it's reasonable to expect him to receive a similar offer. At least.
Questions to ponder:Are we prepared to pay $20+ million to keep THJ?
Even with Bazemore, Bembry, Taurean under contract long term?
If we have to choose between paying 31 year old Paul Millsap $30+ million per year and paying 24 year old Hardaway $20+ million per year...who do we commit to?
Are you of the belief that Wes and Bud should match any offer that Hardaway receives?
What is the kid's ceiling? Lead scorer on a playoff team? Second option on a contender?
Any hope Taurean and Bazemore can see a similar breakout next season?
Is it possible his emergence this season is just a contract year illusion? (Like what Bazemore displayed last season?)
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Fri Feb 3, 2017 6:46 pm
by Jamaaliver
Like Father, Like Son: Hardaway Jr. explodes for 33 pointsHardaway, Jr., a Miami Palmetto High graduate, went 8-for-11, scored 15 consecutive points, and ended the night with a thunderous poster dunk over Clint Capela that went viral on Twitter. The Hawks trailed by 20 before Hardaway went on his incredible run, during which he outscored the entire Rockets team.
Read more here:
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article130526989.html#storylink=cpy
Coach Bud wrote:He just kind of had everything going. It was one of those special quarters for a young player who is really emerging and arising.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Fri Feb 3, 2017 6:51 pm
by Jamaaliver
Hardaway Jr. is kicking down opportunity’s door
The Hawks shooting guard was the catalyst for yet another dramatic victory with a career-high 33 points Thursday night. Hardaway is playing an increased role since the trade of Kyle Korver. The more he plays, the more he has set about knocking down that door.
The Hawks have decisions to make regarding Hardaway – now and future. Such stellar performances, it can be argued, has earned Hardaway a spot in the starting lineup. Perhaps more importantly, he will be a restricted free agent this summer. His play has warranted a significant salary. There will be several interested teams bidding with the Hawks’ right to match any offer.
He has started nine games this season and averaged 17.1 points, 3.6 assists and 3.3 rebounds in 33.8 minutes. In his 39 games off the bench, he has averaged 11.3 points, 1.7 assists and 2.1 rebounds in 21.8 minutes.
Here
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Sat Feb 4, 2017 3:18 am
by HMFFL
I believe we must keep him.
What a great young talent and he's one that we need to grow with.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Sat Feb 4, 2017 3:58 am
by ATL Boy
We can't lose him for nothing. THJ is continuing to improve and if he gets offered $20+ mil I believe that we have no choice but to match.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Sat Feb 4, 2017 5:00 pm
by D21
I agree with you but :
- If Bazemore was producing more like he should do, Hardaway would not look like that
- The Crabbe situation was different, it was during the massive jump of Salary Cap and with all that money, some teams were afraid of not signing players and spent more than they should on mid-level players.
These kind of contracts were mistakes IMO and should not be used as references, even if the Salary Cap will make another "little" jump
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Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:41 pm
by tbhawksfan1
This season he's worth a couple of 20 point games in the playoff serie(s) and the rest of the games little impact while the Hawks are elimineted.
If kept next season he is a starter/sixth man on a team fighting for the playoffs having a nice game every fourth or fifth game.
Who do you compare him to on a good team? Is he a starter or good sixth man on a contender? I get the feeling that a lot of the discussion is on how we remain a playoff/fringe playoff team in the East and not on how we actually try to win. I can understand that the investors (owners) play for revenue, I can understand that Bud wants to play the best ball everyday (because he can get fired and NBA coaches are graded by wins), but I can't get fans that support playing for revenue and mediocrity.
If it isn't good enough, fix it. If they beat you, find a way to beat them
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:55 pm
by Jamaaliver
THJ is now avg 18 ppg as a starter.
In his last 5 games, hes avg 20 ppg - 4 rpg - 3 apg.
He looks like the real deal as a contributor at SG.
I hate that we committed so much money to Bazemore.
I suspect this summer, unless we can move Kent...the front office may have to decide between overpaying Hardaway or overpaying Millsap.
And I hate both options.
Questions to consider:
- Is there anyway we can let THJ walk away for nothing?
- With his value at an all-time high, should we consider moving him now for value?
- Is he anything more than a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams 2.0?
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:54 pm
by tbhawksfan1
TJr is the best trending Hawks since Schro. Sap is still very good, but he's not going to get better. The real problem is that we are so lacking in talent that we can't let guys walk, even if it means keeping lesser talented or declining players.
What is THJr"s ceiling? I don't see him becoming a top SG. We would be very lucky if he can slide into a league average SG. If we hadn't crapped that Baze deal we wouldn't be wondering, just getting ready to sign THJr
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:35 pm
by td00
I see THJ gettings 5/80, similar to DS.
Is THJ enough to get us a 2-3 seed? I like what he has brought recently, and has really blossomed since KK left. It doesn't sound like Bud will make any significant move at the deadline, so this is our lineup for the playoffs.
I think we keep Sap and just give him his money for 4 years and he and Dwight anchor the inside. I think we need to keep both if you're asking me today. That does depend on playoff performance though. THJ is the wild card this year, but his pedigree might allow him to keep doing what he's doing long term.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:04 pm
by Jamaaliver
Didn't know where to place this nugget. But, I guess it does reflect the overall effect THJ doesn't have, despite putting up greater production.
Timmy may be the better scorer, but his net effect on
our team is inferior to what Thabo brings.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:13 pm
by Robo_Claw
Jamaaliver wrote:Didn't know where to place this nugget. But, I guess it does reflect the overall effect THJ doesn't have, despite putting up greater production.
Timmy may be the better scorer, but his net effect on
our team is inferior to what Thabo brings.
That's an interesting stat. To me he's honestly worth 10/12 a year, but these new contracts make no sense. Wouldn't be surprised if someone hit him with a 4/80. I don't know if it's worse to lose him for nothing or ride out that contract though.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Wed Mar 1, 2017 8:06 am
by simon24
Jamaaliver wrote:THJ is now avg 18 ppg as a starter.
In his last 5 games, hes avg 20 ppg - 4 rpg - 3 apg.
He looks like the real deal as a contributor at SG.
I hate that we committed so much money to Bazemore.
I suspect this summer, unless we can move Kent...the front office may have to decide between overpaying Hardaway or overpaying Millsap.
And I hate both options.
Questions to consider:
- Is there anyway we can let THJ walk away for nothing?
- With his value at an all-time high, should we consider moving him now for value?
- Is he anything more than a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams 2.0?
I hate Bud gave Dennis an extension early. His cap hold would have definitely opened more cap space than his new deal does now.
You got to keep him. Traded the '15 pick for him, FA SG market is weak and he's young. Going into the offseason as a starter will definitely help him.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Wed Mar 1, 2017 8:07 am
by simon24
Jamaaliver wrote:Didn't know where to place this nugget. But, I guess it does reflect the overall effect THJ doesn't have, despite putting up greater production.
Timmy may be the better scorer, but his net effect on
our team is inferior to what Thabo brings.
Thabo can't stay healthy though. Prince going to have to be the new Thabo next season.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Wed Mar 1, 2017 3:44 pm
by Robo_Claw
simon24 wrote:Jamaaliver wrote:Didn't know where to place this nugget. But, I guess it does reflect the overall effect THJ doesn't have, despite putting up greater production.
Timmy may be the better scorer, but his net effect on
our team is inferior to what Thabo brings.
Thabo can't stay healthy though. Prince going to have to be the new Thabo next season.
I like what I see from prince so far when he gets some minutes.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Thu Mar 2, 2017 12:41 pm
by Jamaaliver
simon24 wrote:I hate Bud gave Dennis an extension early. His cap hold would have definitely opened more cap space than his new deal does now.
Dennis's extension does indeed cut into our cap space this summer. But Hawks had to get Dennis extended on a reasonable contract or risk some other team massively overpaying him this summer to steal him away:
Jamaaliver wrote:A throw away comment in the revelation that DS was almost traded to Philly, is that the 76ers front office views DS as worthy of a max deal when he hits free agency next summer.
...a source expects the Sixers and Hawks to revisit trade talks for him during the NBA draft on June 23.
A source said that the Sixers are prepared to sign him a maximum-salary deal.
NBC Sports's take:If the 76ers are truly interested in Schröder, they need Atlanta to comply by either trading them the point guard or not extending him and not matching a 2017 offer sheet. What’s a good way to get the Hawks on board? Convince them Schröder will receive a max offer sheet in 2017...
CBS Sports's Take...this shows you the deal coming for Schroder in 2017 is going to blow a lot of people's minds. A lot of the money being thrown around is going to be crazy, but there will be a lot of interest generated for a point guard like Schroder.
Considering he'll be a restricted free agent (assuming an extension isn't reached this fall), that could raise the price tag even more to put pressure on the Hawks to either match a big deal or risk letting their point guard of the future go for nothing in return.
Feb 2016
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:20 pm
by Jamaaliver
simon24 wrote:Thabo can't stay healthy though. Prince going to have to be the new Thabo next season.
I REALLY HOPE THIS COMES TO FRUITION. I'd like to see Prince lock down the starting SF role this summer and become our new Thabo, our new DMC, our own younger version of Jae Crowder.
Regardless of what happens with Bazemore, THJ or Millsap.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Thu Mar 2, 2017 7:21 pm
by simon24
Jamaaliver wrote:simon24 wrote:I hate Bud gave Dennis an extension early. His cap hold would have definitely opened more cap space than his new deal does now.
Dennis's extension does indeed cut into our cap space this summer. But Hawks had to get Dennis extended on a reasonable contract or risk some other team massively overpaying him this summer to steal him away:
Jamaaliver wrote:A throw away comment in the revelation that DS was almost traded to Philly, is that the 76ers front office views DS as worthy of a max deal when he hits free agency next summer.
...a source expects the Sixers and Hawks to revisit trade talks for him during the NBA draft on June 23.
A source said that the Sixers are prepared to sign him a maximum-salary deal.
NBC Sports's take:If the 76ers are truly interested in Schröder, they need Atlanta to comply by either trading them the point guard or not extending him and not matching a 2017 offer sheet. What’s a good way to get the Hawks on board? Convince them Schröder will receive a max offer sheet in 2017...
CBS Sports's Take...this shows you the deal coming for Schroder in 2017 is going to blow a lot of people's minds. A lot of the money being thrown around is going to be crazy, but there will be a lot of interest generated for a point guard like Schroder.
Considering he'll be a restricted free agent (assuming an extension isn't reached this fall), that could raise the price tag even more to put pressure on the Hawks to either match a big deal or risk letting their point guard of the future go for nothing in return.
Feb 2016
That extra 7-8 mil would have made a difference. Thanks to Millsap's cap hold, ATL's hands are tied until they figure out what Millsap is going to do. ATL will only have like 5 mil in cap space. Meanwhile Thabo, Hardaway, Muscula, Ersan and Hump will all be FAs
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Thu Mar 2, 2017 7:27 pm
by simon24
Jamaaliver wrote:simon24 wrote:Thabo can't stay healthy though. Prince going to have to be the new Thabo next season.
I REALLY HOPE THIS COMES TO FRUITION. I'd like to see Prince lock down the starting SF role this summer and become our new Thabo, our new DMC, our own younger version of Jae Crowder.
Regardless of what happens with Bazemore, THJ or Millsap.
ATL need to find a way to dump Baze's contract for cap space. That extra 15+ mil a year would really be handy. Unfortunately only way I can see it happening is if ATL takes on back bad contracts like Moore and Ainjca/Asik for Baze or trade their 1st this year with Baze.
Re: How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:27 pm
by Jamaaliver
Role Players helping their Free Agency Stock
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Coming off the Hawks’ bench, Hardaway Jr. is averaging career-highs in points (13.6), rebounds (2.6), assists (2.1), steals (0.7) and field goal percentage (45.2 percent). In 17 games as a starter, he has averaged 17.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 3.1 assists. Advanced stats show Hardaway Jr.’s importance to Atlanta as well. The Hawks score 108.5 points-per-100-possessions with him on the floor versus 97.3 points-per-100-possessions when he’s on the bench. Also, Atlanta sees an increase in field goal percentage (44 percent to 47.1 percent) and three-point percentage (31 percent to 36.8 percent) when Hardaway Jr. is in the game. After last year’s forgettable season with the Hawks, many people wrote off Hardaway Jr., but there’s no denying that he’s been very good this year. The one issue he may run into this summer is that he’s a restricted free agent. However, with his strong play, the fact that he’s only 24 years old and considering the Hawks made a huge financial commitment to Kent Bazemore last July, perhaps a team will throw a large offer sheet his way in hopes Atlanta won’t match.
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