Will the Schlenk/Budenholzer partnership work?

[Jamaaliver]

Oh I remember. I know what you are saying but the truth is that we still won and we won all those series 4-2.

But the question is have we lost a playoff series under Bud that we should have won? To me the answer is an unequivocal no and I don't think a lot of coaches can say that.

Again, no one is claiming Bud is a bad coach. But there seems to be a lot of excuses for a guy who has a losing record in the post season and has never won more games than he lost in the second season.

We have never looked dominant in any series, even when we were the consensus better team.

I think that is a sign of coaching.

CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT ALERT: The last time an Atlanta coach outcoached/out-strategized his opponent in a playoff series was Larry Drew in the 2011 Orlando Magic series.

[macd-gm]

Oh I remember. I know what you are saying but the truth is that we still won and we won all those series 4-2.

But the question is have we lost a playoff series under Bud that we should have won? To me the answer is an unequivocal no and I don't think a lot of coaches can say that.

Again, no one is claiming Bud is a bad coach. But there seems to be a lot of excuses for a guy who has a losing record in the post season and has never won more games than he lost in the second season.

We have never looked dominant in any series, even when we were the consensus better team.

I think that is a sign of coaching.

CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT ALERT: The last time an Atlanta coach outcoached/out-strategized his opponent in a playoff series was Larry Drew in the 2011 Orlando Magic series.

If you're going to ding Bud for winning a playoff series but not looking great then you have to also give him credit for playing pretty well in a series that we were totally outmatched in like Indy that first year and the Wiz last season. Sure we have never looked dominant in a series but when have we had a dominant team? I mean the Celtics about lost to the Bulls and Wiz last year, the only two playoff series Stevens has won, but i don't see anyone suggesting he's an outmatched coach in the playoffs.

[Jamaaliver]

If you're going to ding Bud for winning a playoff series but not looking great then you have to also give him credit for playing pretty well in a series that we were totally outmatched in like Indy that first year and the Wiz last season. Sure we have never looked dominant in a series but when have we had a dominant team? I mean the Celtics about lost to the Bulls and Wiz last year, the only two playoff series Stevens has won, but i don't see anyone suggesting he's an outmatched coach in the playoffs.

These are absolutely great points.

No denying that.

His 17-22 postseason record makes we wonder if he's capable of winning a championship, though.

[jayu70]

I think you guys are forgetting how bad we looked against the Brooklyn Nets in the 2015 playoffs. It took us 6 games to get past a massively inferior 8th seed.

Then we struggled to get past the Wiz the following round, despite an injury to John Wall in Game 1. We needed a miracle putback by AL to get that 3rd victory after falling behind that team twice In the series.

The following year we struggled to put away a mediocre Boston team missing Avery Bradley.

Go back and look, read, watch.

Oh I remember. I know what you are saying but the truth is that we still won and we won all those series 4-2. So despite struggling some we still only lost 2 games each. The Wiz were playing better without wall so i was glad he came back. Miracle put back by Al? How many miracle Pierce shots did it take to keep the Wiz in the series? I mean we're talking about almost exactly the same Wiz roster that people are saying is a contender now.
We looked like crap against the Nets but still won pretty easily. They had some vets who felt like playing in the playoffs.

But the question is have we lost a playoff series under Bud that we should have won? To me the answer is an unequivocal no and I don't think a lot of coaches can say that.

Spot on my friend.

[jayu70]

I've never met someone who has to have the last word...in other people's conversations.

A hawks message board.

[macd-gm]

Let me just end this discussion by saying I'm not the type who has to have the last word.

[Wiltside]

It's an interesting question - I was wondering if the Hawks were starting to distance themselves from Bud a bit. First the relinquished responsibilities, and now in a rebuilding phase, it's possible that Schlenk wants to bring his own guy in.

In our recent roundtable on the season predictions, one of the guys predicted Bud will be fired by the Hawks during the season. Do you guys think it'll get to that point? What's the feeling in ATL?

Article is here if you're interested in reading: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/10/16/four-thought-edition-one-nba-season-predictions/

[jayu70]

It's an interesting question - I was wondering if the Hawks were starting to distance themselves from Bud a bit. First the relinquished responsibilities, and now in a rebuilding phase, it's possible that Schlenk wants to bring his own guy in.

In our recent roundtable on the season predictions, one of the guys predicted Bud will be fired by the Hawks during the season. Do you guys think it'll get to that point? What's the feeling in ATL?

Article is here if you're interested in reading: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/10/16/four-thought-edition-one-nba-season-predictions/

I woyld surmise that Most Hawks fan likes Bud the coach, Bud the POBO not so much. Based on the talent he's had in his tenure I would say his teams have overacheived and exceeded expectations considering the Hawks have always lacked that one true STAR player when compared to other teams.
What does Bud do well? He's a great player development coach, what do you need with a young team - direction and player development. He took guys like Carroll, Millsap etc and helped them expand their games which resulted in big paydays. His teams will always play defense.
It's fine if Schlenk wants to bring in his own guy but he'd better be a notch above Bud.

[Jamaaliver]

It's an interesting question - I was wondering if the Hawks were starting to distance themselves from Bud a bit. First the relinquished responsibilities, and now in a rebuilding phase, it's possible that Schlenk wants to bring his own guy in.

In our recent roundtable on the season predictions, one of the guys predicted Bud will be fired by the Hawks during the season. Do you guys think it'll get to that point? What's the feeling in ATL?

Article is here if you're interested in reading: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/10/16/four-thought-edition-one-nba-season-predictions/

Budenholzer isn't getting fired mid season.

Both he and Schlenk are too classy and professional to do so in a season that we aren't really expected to do much.

Rumor is, this is the lame duck season for the coach, so he may part the organization amicably after the year is up.

Aside from some major, unforeseen scandal--I don't see any scenario where our front office fires Bud in the middle of the year.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

[Jamaaliver]

Great, insightful article by Mike Cunningham Jeff Schultz:

How Travis convinced Bud to buy-in to the rebuild...


Travis Schlenk was hired as the new general manager in May, three weeks after majority owner Tony Ressler removed Budenholzer as president of basketball ops and demoting general manager Wes Wilcox...

Schlenk never believed Budenholzer would quit. “He’s a prideful guy,” he said.

But it was a delicate situation. After Schlenk was hired, he and Budenholzer had dinner with two team executives, then met one-on-one the next day to talk about basketball philosophy. The plan to deal Dwight Howard and move on from Paul Millsap and Tim Hardaway Jr. in free agency evolved after a series of meetings over the next three weeks.

Schlenk liked Millsap as a player and a person. But he was concerned about giving $30 million a year to a player who he believed was wearing down physically. Schlenk said Millsap had his knee drained of “10 ounces of fluid” down the stretch of the season.

Budenholzer...leaned toward keeping Millsap and staying competitive. But after a series of conversations, he came over to Schlenk’s side on the rebuild plans.

“There was one day when Bud came into my office and said, ‘I’m in. I understand,’” Schlenk said. “It was like ripping the Band-Aid off. They had been doing it slowly, losing one guy here and there. But it was like, ‘This is what we’re going to do now.’


That meeting took place two weeks into June. Here’s what followed:

June 20: Howard, universally disliked in the organization, was traded to Charlotte.

June 22: NBA draft. (Hawks take power forward John Collins and guard Tyler Dorsey with their first two picks.)

July 6: Hardaway signs with New York.

July 13: Millsap signs with Denver.

Is it difficult watching somebody else make the decisions during this rebuild?

“Is it going to be tough? Sure. We’re all competitive. It won’t be easy for Travis, either. But we all realize we have an opportunity to get better and get to a special place.”

[jayu70]

It's an interesting question - I was wondering if the Hawks were starting to distance themselves from Bud a bit. First the relinquished responsibilities, and now in a rebuilding phase, it's possible that Schlenk wants to bring his own guy in.

In our recent roundtable on the season predictions, one of the guys predicted Bud will be fired by the Hawks during the season. Do you guys think it'll get to that point? What's the feeling in ATL?

Article is here if you're interested in reading: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/10/16/four-thought-edition-one-nba-season-predictions/

More information about Schlenk and Bud's relationship...

Budenholzer, as a coach, wanted to win. It followed that he leaned toward keeping Millsap and staying competitive. But after a series of conversations, he came over to Schlenk’s side on the rebuild plans.
“There was one day when Bud came into my office and said, ‘I’m in. I understand,’” Schlenk said. “It was like ripping the Band-Aid off. They had been doing it slowly, losing one guy here and there. But it was like, ‘This is what we’re going to do now.’

Full article here...http://jeffschultz.blog.myajc.com/2017/10/17/budenholzer-on-changes-coaching-is-most-important-thing-ive-done/

[macd-gm]

Agree that no way in hell do they fire Bud mid-season. That would make no sense. I see the possibility of Bud just leaving amicably next summer but Honestly I think by then both guys will have a comfort level and Bud will have relationships with the players and see the potential. I hope. I hope there is potential. The thing I wonder about is other teams knocking on his door next year.

[Jamaaliver]

Schlenk tread lightly the first few weeks after taking the GM job. He couldn’t go my way or the highway. This was a proud group of guys who’d done great work in making the Hawks a legit exciting team to watch for the first time in a long time.

“We sat down, probably the first day I got the job here, we went to dinner -- (Chief Executive Officer Steve) Koonin, (Chief Operating Officer) Thad Sheely and Bud and I all went to dinner,” Schlenk said. “And then the next day Bud and I sat down for three or four hours and just talked about different things. And really, I kind of knew in my mind what I wanted to do with this.

“[Bud] had been here and it was his stamp and he had emotional connections to all of these guys that I didn’t have. So it took, I got hired first of June, end of May, But I would say it took two or three weeks of, I wasn’t assertive at all. I would just sit back and have conversations. But we kind of channeled the conversations in the direction I wanted to. And he knew.”

A week before the Draft, Budenholzer went to Schlenk’s office and told him he was all in. But, Budenholzer still argued for keeping Millsap, the Hawks’ remaining All-Star and his best all-around player last season.

“But I would just constantly say, ‘listen. You guys won (43) games. You want to win (43) games again?’ I get this will be painful. Believe me, the first four games, I’m sitting up there miserable.” states Schlenk

NBA.com

[macd-gm]

“But I would just constantly say, ‘listen. You guys won (43) games. You want to win (43) games again?’

This is awesome. TANK. Remember when Travis said 'It's never a bad thing to go to the playoffs'. That was a big lie.

[kg01]

“But I would just constantly say, ‘listen. You guys won (43) games. You want to win (43) games again?’

This is awesome. TANK. Remember when Travis said 'It's never a bad thing to go to the playoffs'. That was a big lie.

C'mon, macd. Totally missed the opportunity to throw in a #fakenews or #alternativefax.

Let's just call it a strategic truth.

[jayu70]

“But I would just constantly say, ‘listen. You guys won (43) games. You want to win (43) games again?’

This is awesome. TANK. Remember when Travis said 'It's never a bad thing to go to the playoffs'. That was a big lie.

It should be....'it's never a bad thing to go to the playoffs if you haven't been in a long time.'

[MaceCase]

“But I would just constantly say, ‘listen. You guys won (43) games. You want to win (43) games again?’

This is awesome. TANK. Remember when Travis said 'It's never a bad thing to go to the playoffs'. That was a big lie.

Well, no. He made that comment directly in regards to finding players throughout the draft. He never meant it as the direct goal of a team.

[macd-gm]

If he wanted Sap back I think Bud did want to win 43 games again in the hopes that they could continue to build with Sap. Some of this article makes Travis sound a little condescending. But who knows what the real story is.

[tbhawksfan1]

with Sap back we would have been maxed out with Sap, Schro, Baze, Moose, Bembry, Dorsey, Howard and nobody. I didn't want to see that. I'm ready to bring in some nice young talent

[macd-gm]

with Sap back we would have been maxed out with Sap, Schro, Baze, Moose, Bembry, Dorsey, Howard and nobody. I didn't want to see that. I'm ready to bring in some nice young talent

We had already traded Howard. I think Bud wanted Dennis/Baze/Prince/Sap/Dedmon. with Marco off the bench