Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Tue Jun 6, 2017 11:32 pm
RealGM
Sports is our Business
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/
Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1573154
Page 1 of 4
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 8:02 am
If he can knock it down at an average clip, then why not. I mean if Dwight actual had some semblance of a jumper, teams would have to respect him knocking a few down a game. Of course that doesn't mean he will actually fulfill that need though, but would you be made if he did?
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 9:17 am
Josh Smith level dumb. Almost seems like DH just wants to do the opposite of what he should. Note to Schlenk; please trade DH
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 9:29 am
If Howard played on another team, I would find this funny in a not very nice way.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 1:02 pm
I would rather he get a 15-20 foot jumper and free throws first, and get a mid range game like Charles Oakley.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 2:10 pm
D12 has been working on 18+ foot jumpers for the better part of a year now.
Is this something Bud is encouraging? Cause it didn't work out to well when he allowed (encouraged?) our last All Star Center to expand his range too far out.
I said the following last month...and it still bears considering:
I don't think Bud likes utilizing a traditional, in-the-paint-center in his offense. Dwight's new found focus on 3-pt shooting (in the twilight(?) of his career) feels like a response to a very candid conversation between D12 and his coach after minimal PT in that playoff loss to WAS.
Is this something Bud is encouraging? Cause it didn't work out to well when he allowed (encouraged?) our last All Star Center to expand his range too far out.
I said the following last month...and it still bears considering:
Jamaaliver wrote:NOTE: There's a distinct possibility that Budenholzer simply isn't good at developing/utilizing Centers. Tiago, Pero, Horford and Dwight all saw decreased production in his system. Bebe, Edy (and Adreian) each flamed out in a matter months.
That's a lot of sub par Center play for it to be a coincidence.
I don't think Bud likes utilizing a traditional, in-the-paint-center in his offense. Dwight's new found focus on 3-pt shooting (in the twilight(?) of his career) feels like a response to a very candid conversation between D12 and his coach after minimal PT in that playoff loss to WAS.
Spoiler:
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 2:51 pm
In today’s NBA, the big man position is virtually non-existent. Teams don’t throw the ball into the paint anymore to get baskets. It’s all about stretch four and fives now. The league values big men who can shoot the three over traditional post up players.
Howard's first season with the Hawks did not go smooth. He averaged 13.5 points and 12.7 rebounds per game while shooting a putrid 53 percent from the free throw line during the regular season.
So, you have to at least commend Howard for trying to adapt to the new NBA, but it is sad to see where his career is at now.
The 6-foot-11 Atlanta Hawks center isn't content being a pick-and-roll, lob-catching big man anymore. He sees where the game has headed, and isn't going to fall behind other centers in the league.
So, Dwight's not wrong. We've recently seen big men like Cousins, Horford, Lopez and Gasol extend their range to the 3-point line, and it can certainly add years to a center's career. The difference is, those guys actually made shots consistently beyond 12 feet before backing up to beyond the arc.
According to Basketball Reference, Howard shot just 23 percent (21 of 92) on jump shots last season...it's a huge leap to go from shooting 23 percent on jump shots to making 3s consistently. He's also a notoriously awful free throw shooter, so it's hard to imagine that shooting mechanics that don't work from 15 feet will suddenly start to work from 24 feet.
Howard has talked before about expanding his range to no avail (as you can see, he shot just two 3-pointers all of last year), so it will be interesting to see if he actually follows through and starts hoisting from deep next season.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 3:44 pm
The full interview:
Here we go again with the blame Bud for everything. Howard talks about extending his career by learning to shoot, goes into detail about how the majority (85% by his math) of the opposing Centers he faces are all shooting the 3 and how his position has changed dramatically from when he first came into the league but naw, he's too stupid to make any realization of all of this on his own and needed Bud to not only point it out but encourage it.
It was the same blaming Bud for Horford. Horford only managed to earn a max contract based off of his shooting ability and went on to attempt more 3s in Boston surely at Bud's request. Dwight had his best season in 3 years and Horford had his worst season in 5 healthy years but the narrative continues, this is on Bud and he doesn't know how to utilize Centers.
Here we go again with the blame Bud for everything. Howard talks about extending his career by learning to shoot, goes into detail about how the majority (85% by his math) of the opposing Centers he faces are all shooting the 3 and how his position has changed dramatically from when he first came into the league but naw, he's too stupid to make any realization of all of this on his own and needed Bud to not only point it out but encourage it.
It was the same blaming Bud for Horford. Horford only managed to earn a max contract based off of his shooting ability and went on to attempt more 3s in Boston surely at Bud's request. Dwight had his best season in 3 years and Horford had his worst season in 5 healthy years but the narrative continues, this is on Bud and he doesn't know how to utilize Centers.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 4:38 pm
If DH starts shooting threes during game. It's on Bud. DH has no business shooting threes. Bud's business to make sure it doesn't happen.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 4:41 pm
A few thoughts here:
Blame...is a strong word.
But it can't be a coincidence:
Horford decided to expand his offense to the 3-pt line under Bud.
Then Howard decided to expand his offense to the 3-pt line under Bud.
It's reasonable to deduce that Budenholzer impressed upon each of them the importance of spacing in his offense. And they responded by working to improve their range. Even as it hurts their individual games to work away from their strengths.
Did he, though?
Dwight just avg the lowest scoring output in last 12 years. The worst scoring avg since his rookie season.
Dwight just avg the fewest FGAs in his career while shooting the highest FG% of his career.
^These two things are contradictory. He hit more of his shots than at any time in his career...but then he took fewer shots than at any time in his career.
Dwight avg fewer shot attempts per game than Kent Bazemore.
I don't see a guy who just had the best season in years. I see a guy who wasn't properly utilized last season. And now, instead of us adjusting to Howard's skillset, it appears Howard's adjusting to fit our system.
Blame...is a strong word.
But it can't be a coincidence:
Horford decided to expand his offense to the 3-pt line under Bud.
Then Howard decided to expand his offense to the 3-pt line under Bud.
It's reasonable to deduce that Budenholzer impressed upon each of them the importance of spacing in his offense. And they responded by working to improve their range. Even as it hurts their individual games to work away from their strengths.
Dwight had his best season in 3 years...but the narrative continues, this is on Bud and he doesn't know how to utilize Centers.
Did he, though?
Dwight just avg the lowest scoring output in last 12 years. The worst scoring avg since his rookie season.
Dwight just avg the fewest FGAs in his career while shooting the highest FG% of his career.
^These two things are contradictory. He hit more of his shots than at any time in his career...but then he took fewer shots than at any time in his career.
Dwight avg fewer shot attempts per game than Kent Bazemore.
I don't see a guy who just had the best season in years. I see a guy who wasn't properly utilized last season. And now, instead of us adjusting to Howard's skillset, it appears Howard's adjusting to fit our system.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 5:44 pm
So efficiency goes up but attempts go down, and this is seen as a mis-utilization? Let's overlook True Shooting being the second highest of his career, his team Offensive Rating being the highest of Dwight's career, PER highest since 13'-14', Win Shares per 48 highest since 2011. That would appear to be a coach taking an ineffective style of player and making them the most effective they've been in ages. But naw, Bud made them worse.
Pau Gasol has attempted 353 three pointers in a 17 year career. 173 came in the past two seasons, surely Bud is to bla...it can't be a coincidence.
Marc Gasol has attempted 334 three pointers in his career. 268 came in just the last season, surely Bud is to bla...it can't be a coincidence.
LaMarcus Aldridge has attempted 293 three pointers in his career. 177 came in the past 3 seasons.
Chris Bosh attempted 903 three pointers in his career. 608 came in his past 3 seasons.
Blake Griffin has attempted 268 three pointers in his career. 113 came in the past season alone.
Anthony Davis has attempted 269 three pointers in his career. 242 came in the past two seasons.
DeMarcus Cousins has attempted 643 three pointers in his career. 574 came in the past two seasons.
Brook Lopez has attempted 137 three pointers in his career. 134 came in just the last season.
It would appear that if anyone has a modicum of sense they would notice a league-wide trend amongst big men shooting 3s, heck, even Dwight Howard has managed to notice. But no, some prefer to continue to push a nonsensical narrative and place the blame, oh I'm sorry, say it's not a coincidence that a jump shooting Center decided to take longer jumpshots despite mountains of contrary evidence. If Bud has this amount of influence that it can extend league-wide and to players who no longer play for him I'd have to wonder how and why exactly he had such a mediocre run as PBO given the amount of talent that looks to him for guidance.
Pau Gasol has attempted 353 three pointers in a 17 year career. 173 came in the past two seasons, surely Bud is to bla...it can't be a coincidence.
Marc Gasol has attempted 334 three pointers in his career. 268 came in just the last season, surely Bud is to bla...it can't be a coincidence.
LaMarcus Aldridge has attempted 293 three pointers in his career. 177 came in the past 3 seasons.
Chris Bosh attempted 903 three pointers in his career. 608 came in his past 3 seasons.
Blake Griffin has attempted 268 three pointers in his career. 113 came in the past season alone.
Anthony Davis has attempted 269 three pointers in his career. 242 came in the past two seasons.
DeMarcus Cousins has attempted 643 three pointers in his career. 574 came in the past two seasons.
Brook Lopez has attempted 137 three pointers in his career. 134 came in just the last season.
It would appear that if anyone has a modicum of sense they would notice a league-wide trend amongst big men shooting 3s, heck, even Dwight Howard has managed to notice. But no, some prefer to continue to push a nonsensical narrative and place the blame, oh I'm sorry, say it's not a coincidence that a jump shooting Center decided to take longer jumpshots despite mountains of contrary evidence. If Bud has this amount of influence that it can extend league-wide and to players who no longer play for him I'd have to wonder how and why exactly he had such a mediocre run as PBO given the amount of talent that looks to him for guidance.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 5:59 pm
Ummm...calm down?
It's reasonable to be concerned that a player who's strength is inside scoring...suddenly is moving away from that strength.
As far as blaming Bud:
Our record has declined. Our offensive ranking is near bottom of the league. The lowest in years. Who else bears responsibility if not the Head Coach and Head of Basketball Ops?
Regarding Dwight emulating other, better shooting bigs in season 13 of the NBA:
This is definitely a case of forcing a square peg into a round hole.
It's reasonable to be concerned that a player who's strength is inside scoring...suddenly is moving away from that strength.
As far as blaming Bud:
Our record has declined. Our offensive ranking is near bottom of the league. The lowest in years. Who else bears responsibility if not the Head Coach and Head of Basketball Ops?
Regarding Dwight emulating other, better shooting bigs in season 13 of the NBA:
-2015MaceCase wrote:Once innovators demonstrate a style of play that happens to be successful plenty of other coaches and GMs that missed the bus will try to jump on the bandwagon even if it means forcing square pegs into circle holes.
This is definitely a case of forcing a square peg into a round hole.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 6:20 pm
Stop tap-dancing. So you're electric electric boogalooing from Dwight having one of his best seasons to implicating the entire roster? That's..... actually completely expected of you.
I've provided a looooong list of inside scorers who willingly on their own adapted long-range shooting into their games free of any influence from Mike Budenholzer. Of the young crop of new starters to the league there are Turner, Jokic, Embiid, Porzingis, Kaminsky, Bender, Chriss, Towns, etc.
It would appear the writing is on the wall and Dwight himself explicitly stated on his own what he would like to add to his game. This has nothing to do with Bud. Dwight also thought he needed more post touches and to be in the game over certain stretches, Bud thought otherwise when he had him on the bench. Of course, with such a misinformed agenda as yours I'm sure the theory is that Bud only benched Dwight as a means to force him to learn to shoot and then, only then, would he be satisfied with playing him and forcing touches.
I've provided a looooong list of inside scorers who willingly on their own adapted long-range shooting into their games free of any influence from Mike Budenholzer. Of the young crop of new starters to the league there are Turner, Jokic, Embiid, Porzingis, Kaminsky, Bender, Chriss, Towns, etc.
It would appear the writing is on the wall and Dwight himself explicitly stated on his own what he would like to add to his game. This has nothing to do with Bud. Dwight also thought he needed more post touches and to be in the game over certain stretches, Bud thought otherwise when he had him on the bench. Of course, with such a misinformed agenda as yours I'm sure the theory is that Bud only benched Dwight as a means to force him to learn to shoot and then, only then, would he be satisfied with playing him and forcing touches.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 6:26 pm
MaceCase wrote:Stop tap-dancing...with such a misinformed agenda as yours...
Sorry, I zoned out there for a minute.
Howard shot just 23 percent (21 of 92) on jump shots last season...it's a huge leap to go from shooting 23 percent on jump shots to making 3s consistently.
He's also a notoriously awful free throw shooter, so it's hard to imagine that shooting mechanics that don't work from 15 feet will suddenly start to work from 24 feet. -CBS SPORTS
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 6:30 pm
Show me where it says "coach Mike Budenholzer is encouraging Dwight Howard to work on his jump-shooting."
I'll wait for your daydream to end.
I'll wait for your daydream to end.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 6:43 pm
^On the contrary:
Yet, every big we have starts jacking up 3-pointers over time in this system?
Is this in spite of Budenholzer's preference?
Is every Center on this team working against Bud's wishes?
Nov 2016The closer to the basket Howard gets the ball, the better
With Dwight Howard, the Hawks are playing more post-up offense. Only with a catch.
Ideally, the Hawks want to get Howard the ball as close to the basket as possible where he is required to make one simple move to score...The same can be said for power forward Paul Millsap in the Hawks’ offense.
“In a very simplistic way, that’s where we would like all of our post guys to catch it,” Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said of in-close touches. “...when you have the physical tools and gifts that Dwight has, he’s very much committed to it. It is designed and there is structure, including passing angles, running angles. To be honest, it’s something that would be emphasized by a lot of teams including us...I think it’s critical to his success and to our success.”
“They are things we’ve done over time but I think, maybe, we are emphasizing it more, executing it better,” Budenholzer said. “It takes a lot of effort from Dwight and Paul.”
Yet, every big we have starts jacking up 3-pointers over time in this system?
Is this in spite of Budenholzer's preference?
Is every Center on this team working against Bud's wishes?
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 6:57 pm
Jamaaliver wrote:A few thoughts here:
Blame...is a strong word.
But it can't be a coincidence:
Horford decided to expand his offense to the 3-pt line under Bud.
Then Howard decided to expand his offense to the 3-pt line under Bud.
It's reasonable to deduce that Budenholzer impressed upon each of them the importance of spacing in his offense. And they responded by working to improve their range. Even as it hurts their individual games to work away from their strengths.Dwight had his best season in 3 years...but the narrative continues, this is on Bud and he doesn't know how to utilize Centers.
Did he, though?
Dwight just avg the lowest scoring output in last 12 years. The worst scoring avg since his rookie season.
Dwight just avg the fewest FGAs in his career while shooting the highest FG% of his career.
^These two things are contradictory. He hit more of his shots than at any time in his career...but then he took fewer shots than at any time in his career.
Dwight avg fewer shot attempts per game than Kent Bazemore.
I don't see a guy who just had the best season in years. I see a guy who wasn't properly utilized last season. And now, instead of us adjusting to Howard's skillset, it appears Howard's adjusting to fit our system.
Bad situation, very nice analysis
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 7:03 pm
Has Bud had a single big comparable to Dwight? Did Dwight attempt 3s in Bud's offense? So how does the narrative go that Bud forces his bigs to shoot threes? Oh, that's right. There is no basis. Just a misinformed agenda that has no legs to stand on fueled by your fanboyist inability to ever accept Al Horford for what he has always been.
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 7:28 pm
MaceCase wrote:Has Bud had a single big comparable to Dwight?
...your fanboyist inability to ever accept Al Horford for what he has always been.
Ummm...anyway.
Dwight Howard shooting threes is bad. Dwight Howard trying to emulate Horford is bad.
I've been consistent on this since the last time we had this debate.
Nov 2016
Re: Dwight working on his 3 point shot?????
Posted: Wed Jun 7, 2017 11:37 pm
Almost everyone agrees on Dwight taking any form of jumper being bad. Only the agenda man wants to put the blame on Bud.