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Hawks are gaining on them !!

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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#81 » by kg01 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:01 pm

Spud2nique wrote:
kg01 wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:

I agree here..The NBA wants either the Mavs or Kings to land Doncic...due to Dirk and Peja.

Kings- Doncic (new Peja)
Mavs- Trae Young (new Nash)
Hawks- Mo Bamba (new Deke)
Magic- Ayton (new Dwight)
Grizz- Bagley (new ZBo)
Suns- Michael Porter ( new Dan Marjerle)


Ps There has gotta be a funny new nickname for a Booker/Porter combo in the land of the Sun! That would actually be an offensive juggernaut duo right there...wing version of the splash brothers...


I can hear Luke's dad now, "I can't believe you compared Doncic to Peja, I mean he's totally not Peja, how can you even say that ..."

Also, I'm thinking Booker's drifting way into the 'overrated' category now.


:o Oh dear...not Luke’s dad...it’s too early.


Shhhhhh!!! Don't say his name 3 times or it'll conjure him up.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#82 » by jayu70 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Kings, Magic Suns front office is horrible, they have no clue what they are doing. Count the number of top 10 lottery picks between these teams, its criminal they are still so bad.
Grizz aren't in too bad spot if Conley comes back healthy. They need to move Marc Gasol and get rid of Parson's contract.
Mavs, it's still all about Dirk.

Hawks have Coach Bud, so I'll say Hawks.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#83 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:33 pm

Zach Lowe wrote:The coming tank war of 2018

Holy god. I'm not sure if this is going to be epic, embarrassing -- or both.

There are eight teams with records between 18-41 (Atlanta and Phoenix) and 20-37 (Chicago), with the unicorn-less Knicks (23-36, losers of eight straight) making a late push to join the slap-fight.

We could have a legitimate nine-team race for the best lottery odds. I'm not sure if we've ever had a tanking pool this deep. These teams make the Lakers, 23-33, look like a goddamned juggernaut.

In theory, the increased number of bad teams could dissuade blatant tankery. On the flip side, a couple of unplanned wins could cost a team two, three, even four spots in the draft order.

Prepare for some horrid basketball, and some strains and sprains to get around the league's resting policy.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#84 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:36 pm

One additional note:

Zach Lowe wrote:These teams make the Lakers, 23-33, look like a goddamned juggernaut.

(Lakers side note: Under the terms of the Markelle - Tatum deal, the Sixers receive the Lakers pick if it falls either at No. 1, or anywhere from No. 6 to No. 30.

If Philly nabs L.A.'s pick this season, the Celtics get Sacramento's top-1-protected pick next year. Philly receives it if it lands at #1.

Imagine if the Sixers end up with the 10th pick in this draft, and Boston selects No. 2 in 2019?

Do not trade with Danny Ainge.)


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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#85 » by MaceCase » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:02 pm

Read on Twitter

Hawks have to lead the pack. Despite intentionally strip-mining the roster they are still ahead of 5 teams including the Magic, Suns, and Kings to go along with Brooklyn and Chicago in Net Differential. The Hawks have a system and front office in place just waiting to plug in talent.

The two teams ahead of the Hawks in Point Differential on that list didn't set out to tank this season. The Grizzlies especially intended on extending a playoff run. They may bounce back but the key components of their core are already on the wrong side of 30 and they may have missed their opportunity to move them for maximum value to kick off a rebuild in earnest. Until if and when they manage to do so they'll have ~80 mil tied up to Conley, Gasol and Parsons alone for the next 2 years at minimum.

The Mavs have been hedging between letting Dirk go out in dignity by chasing high dollar vets and trying to reclaim the promise of past draft busts. They'll have to commit to a true rebuild and even then what is the confidence in Carlisle coaching and developing a young team? He doesn't have a track record of taking on rebuilding situations and building them up. Even the Detroit team he took over as a first time head coach may have not been a playoff team beforehand but the average age of their rotation players was 30.

The Kings don't have a stable organization. They traded the Magoofs for Ranadive who seems to be the type of owner to impulsively buy a Lamborghini and proceed to slap on flame decals and swap out the engine for one with more horsepower because he thinks he knows more than the original engineers did. Ten seconds later you're watching a fireball on the PCH.

The Magic are grossly incompetent and the Suns are incompetent with a cheap owner. The latter will have to look diligently at a proper coaching hire if they ever intend on making good use of their talent.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#86 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:18 pm

Mark Cuban says ‘losing is best option’ for Mavs. Do Hawks feel the same?

What Mavericks franchise owner Mark Cuban said on Julius Erving’s podcast Monday isn’t that controversial. It’s just that he said the unspeakable, at least for people in his position.

"I'm probably not supposed to say this but, like, I just had dinner with a bunch of our guys the other night, and here we are, you know, we weren't competing for the playoffs. I was like, 'Look, losing is our best option,'" Cuban told Dr. J. "(NBA commissioner Adam Silver) would hate hearing that, but I at least sat down and I explained it to them. And I explained what our plans were going to be this summer, that we're not going to tank again. This was, like, a year-and-a-half tanking, and that was too brutal for me. But being transparent, I think that's the key to being kind of a players’ owner and having stability."

This wasn’t the first time Cuban expressed this sentiment. Last year he admitted that the Mavs “did everything possible to lose games” after they were eliminated from the 2017 playoffs...the team played its younger players to decrease their chances of winning.

The Hawks (18-41) are in a similar position to the Mavs (18-40) but, so far, they don’t seem to be embracing Cuban’s approach. For the most part the Hawks have done everything they can to win by playing their veterans.

Rookie John Collins remains a reserve and is averaging about the same minutes per game in February (23.9) as he did in November (24.5) even while fouling at a lower rate now versus then.

It could change for the Hawks now that the trade deadline has passed and they reset after the All-Star break. Maybe it started with their final game before the break, when Bazemore sat for rest and Schroder and Ersan Ilyasova were listed as out with injuries. Then again, Bazemore had played every game with the highest usage percentage since he became a rotation player and perhaps Ilyasova and Schroder needed the break, too.

But it will be tricky for the Hawks to strike a balance of playing their youngsters and keeping their vets happy, for two reasons:

One is that the Hawks don’t want losing to become a habit for their young players.

The other reason the Hawks may not want to go too far with tanking: No team wants to earn a reputation for luring veterans to play for them, and then hurting the market value of those players by sitting them.


The Hawks added to the trickiness of the situation with some of their contracts. They signed Ilyasova to a one-year deal that preserved his “Bird rights” and, logically, Ilyasova was not willing to accept a trade and thus forfeit the chance for a bigger payday. The Hawks gave Dewayne Dedmon and Mike Muscala player options for next season that curtailed their trade value.

The Hawks signed those players so they would be competitive. But the deals they gave them also made them harder to trade.
Cuban’s approach to tanking has some potential drawbacks. But so too do the half-measures the Hawks have taken so far
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#87 » by jayu70 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:52 am

I'm hoping that the Magic start winning some games - they should get Vucevic, Gordon and their rookie Isaac back from injury.
Suns and Kings need to be out the tank race.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#88 » by Spud2nique » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:08 am

jayu70 wrote:I'm hoping that the Magic start winning some games - they should get Vucevic, Gordon and their rookie Isaac back from injury.
Suns and Kings need to be out the tank race.



Agreed...also the Magic signed Rashad Vaughn so that’s something. I still think the Mavs are gonna win some games despite all this tank talk from Cuban.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#89 » by jayu70 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:33 am

Suns out of the tank race?
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#90 » by ATL Boy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:30 am

jayu70 wrote:Suns out of the tank race?
Read on Twitter

The Suns are maybe our biggest competition for that top pick along with the Mavs so this is a breath of fresh air.


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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#91 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:19 pm

Suns out of the tank race?
Read on Twitter



Given that another owner was just penalized for comments encouraging tanking, I'm not sure he could logically give any other answer publically.

I hope it's true, though.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#92 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:49 pm

Are we sure Budenholzer is on board with the rebuild?


As some teams tank, Budenholzer says Hawks will stay the course

‘Won’t be that much different’ over final 23 games


Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said he...doesn’t anticipate making any “drastic changes” to the way his team plays over its final 23 games. That includes how he distributes playing time among his veteran and young players.

Budenholzer said he will stay the course.

“I think we’ve been a mix of young and veteran guys all year,” he said Wednesday. “I think the way we progressed through the season — of course when you start the season you think it could be a little different — (but) right now but I think the way we’ve played, and the way we continue to play, won’t be that much different.”

If the Hawks keep winning at a higher rate, it could imperil their standing in what’s been a parallel track this season: angling for a high pick in the next draft.

Ersan Ilyasova remains the Hawks’ starting power forward. Dewayne Dedmon still is starting at center ahead of John Collins, one of the top rookies in the NBA.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#93 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:41 pm

NBA Tanking Guide: 5 steps every terrible team should follow to finish dead last

NBA tanking season is upon us, and there’s reason to believe this — the final season before the league’s draft lottery reform goes into effect — could be the most glorious display of losing we’ve ever seen.

At least eight teams have no incentive to win for the rest of this season and every incentive to improve their lottery odds.

These five steps to tanking will ensure your team gets the job done right.

1. Start early.

If you’re going to be bad, be really bad. The earlier you understand there’s no hope, the better, because you can get a jumpstart on the teams that tried to win games for a time.

The Hawks, who are tied with the league’s worst record at 18-41, seemed to know from the start. Neither killed their salary cap signing players who might help in the short-term. Quite the opposite. Atlanta let Tim Hardaway Jr. walk and dealt Dwight Howard.

2. Dump anyone who helps win games now and isn’t needed later.

3. Under no circumstances should you win games against fellow tankers.

4. “Rest” your “ailing” stars.

Don’t be surprised if Hawks point guard Dennis Schroder and Mavs forward Harrison Barnes miss games with impossible-to-diagnose ailments.

5. Tell your fans to get excited about the youth movement.

You’ll really know your favorite team is waving the white flag when that underperforming draft pick you’ve been clamoring to see starts getting more burn than a useful veteran.



Good luck to the rest of you whose teams may be tanking, and that’s a lot of you. May you get the lottery pick you seek.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#94 » by kg01 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:43 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Are we sure Budenholzer is on board with the rebuild?

Please stahhp

Also, on the Suns' tank/no-tank, they know good and well they don't have a choice in the matter. Even if they try to win they can't.

Speaking of trying to win but can't, DAL is pathetic in that regard. You telling me a roster with max-signed Barnes, traded-assets-for Noel, Dirk (even on his last legs) and all them other vets is a "tanking" roster? Nah, y'all just suck.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#95 » by Spud2nique » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:22 pm

kg01 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Are we sure Budenholzer is on board with the rebuild?

Please stahhp

Also, on the Suns' tank/no-tank, they know good and well they don't have a choice in the matter. Even if they try to win they can't.

Speaking of trying to win but can't, DAL is pathetic in that regard. You telling me a roster with max-signed Barnes, traded-assets-for Noel, Dirk (even on his last legs) and all them other vets is a "tanking" roster? Nah, y'all just suck.



Wtf I said the same thing about the Mavs last week having talent and not winning. They also have a top 10 coach in Carlisle ...no excuses for the Mavs.


As far as the Suns, they were just trying to kiss some Adam Silver heiny with that “we aren’t tanking” bs...and they really aren’t because they are super young. Hopefully Booker can singlehandedly win a few games for them.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#96 » by Spud2nique » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:24 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Are we sure Budenholzer is on board with the rebuild?


As some teams tank, Budenholzer says Hawks will stay the course

‘Won’t be that much different’ over final 23 games


Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said he...doesn’t anticipate making any “drastic changes” to the way his team plays over its final 23 games. That includes how he distributes playing time among his veteran and young players.

Budenholzer said he will stay the course.

“I think we’ve been a mix of young and veteran guys all year,” he said Wednesday. “I think the way we progressed through the season — of course when you start the season you think it could be a little different — (but) right now but I think the way we’ve played, and the way we continue to play, won’t be that much different.”

If the Hawks keep winning at a higher rate, it could imperil their standing in what’s been a parallel track this season: angling for a high pick in the next draft.

Ersan Ilyasova remains the Hawks’ starting power forward. Dewayne Dedmon still is starting at center ahead of John Collins, one of the top rookies in the NBA.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#97 » by kg01 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:29 pm

Spud2nique wrote:
kg01 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Are we sure Budenholzer is on board with the rebuild?

Please stahhp

Also, on the Suns' tank/no-tank, they know good and well they don't have a choice in the matter. Even if they try to win they can't.

Speaking of trying to win but can't, DAL is pathetic in that regard. You telling me a roster with max-signed Barnes, traded-assets-for Noel, Dirk (even on his last legs) and all them other vets is a "tanking" roster? Nah, y'all just suck.



Wtf I said the same thing about the Mavs last week having talent and not winning. They also have a top 10 coach in Carlisle ...no excuses for the Mavs.


As far as the Suns, they were just trying to kiss some Adam Silver heiny with that “we aren’t tanking” bs...and they really aren’t because they are super young. Hopefully Booker can singlehandedly win a few games for them.


That's something you and I definitely agree on. Only thing I'd say different is I question Carlisle as a coach now. He has to have a ready-made roster of only vets. Otherwise, he's lost. These last few years proves that. Sorry, despite Dirk's decline, their rosters have been good enough to not be high-lotto teams and I don't believe they've been tanking.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#98 » by Spud2nique » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:39 pm

kg01 wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:
kg01 wrote:Please stahhp

Also, on the Suns' tank/no-tank, they know good and well they don't have a choice in the matter. Even if they try to win they can't.

Speaking of trying to win but can't, DAL is pathetic in that regard. You telling me a roster with max-signed Barnes, traded-assets-for Noel, Dirk (even on his last legs) and all them other vets is a "tanking" roster? Nah, y'all just suck.



Wtf I said the same thing about the Mavs last week having talent and not winning. They also have a top 10 coach in Carlisle ...no excuses for the Mavs.


As far as the Suns, they were just trying to kiss some Adam Silver heiny with that “we aren’t tanking” bs...and they really aren’t because they are super young. Hopefully Booker can singlehandedly win a few games for them.


That's something you and I definitely agree on. Only thing I'd say different is I question Carlisle as a coach now. He has to have a ready-made roster of only vets. Otherwise, he's lost. These last few years proves that. Sorry, despite Dirk's decline, their rosters have been good enough to not be high-lotto teams and I don't believe they've been tanking.



If Bud had the Mavs roster this year I think he would be going to the playoffs, YES, even in the west. I honestly believe that if you gave Bud guys like Dirk, Wes Matthews, Harrison Barnes, Dennis Smith Jr. and JJ Barea..they would win. They haven’t even really had any significant injuries.


If the league is worried about teams tanking on purpose, look no further than Cuban’s crazies...I guess the league has bigger issues with the Mavs though.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#99 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:51 pm

kg01 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Are we sure Budenholzer is on board with the rebuild?


Please stahhp



It just strikes me that Bud seems focused on winning games and playing veterans.

Not losing games and starting under-prepared rookies.
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Re: Hawks are gaining on them !! 

Post#100 » by MaceCase » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:43 pm

kg01 wrote:Please stahhp

Also, on the Suns' tank/no-tank, they know good and well they don't have a choice in the matter. Even if they try to win they can't.

Speaking of trying to win but can't, DAL is pathetic in that regard. You telling me a roster with max-signed Barnes, traded-assets-for Noel, Dirk (even on his last legs) and all them other vets is a "tanking" roster? Nah, y'all just suck.

I’m not sure how we can claim the Suns are engaged in deception one second then say that Bud should be taken at his word the next. Even then “the same” has the Hawks at the 2nd worst record so “more of the same” shouldn’t be much different than that.

PS.

The German contingent over at the old country say Dennis was running his mouth over on German TV saying he was perfectly healthy for the Detroit game but Bud decided not to play him. 1, shows ole Buddy boy is down with OPP (optimally positioned picks). 2, hope news travels slow across the Atlantic and the league office only has at best some crony that took only a semester of German in college. 3, Dennis needs to learn the first rule of tankclub.
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