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Rebuild reality and doin it right

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jayu70
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#441 » by jayu70 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:06 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:I'm going to throw out a hypothetical offseason to propose a line up for next season. I think that it's a plan that will fall into TS's plan. Playoffs? Better options?

Draft: Okoro or backup PG/SG like Hali. Developmental SRP. For my senario I'm gonna go Okoro
FA: Bertans/Teague/B. Portis: couple of 1 year deals and a good deal for the third

Capela / Dedman / Bruno
Collins / Portis
Hunter / Bertans / Okoro
Cam / Heurter
Trae / JT / Goodwin

Add SRP and look to absorb a bad 1 year deal for a future FRP.

Is this the plan? Is it a good plan? Playoff team?

I see an east EC playoff team leaving max cap for 21 and prioritizing core development

Bertans is a PF. Not a fan of Portis.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#442 » by tbhawksfan1 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:22 pm

OK. You can change Grant for Bertans if you like. FAcy this year is meager. The priority is development and hopefully enough succes to make POs. I think this is the way TS is gonna go. Any input into answering my questions?
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#443 » by jayu70 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:01 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:OK. You can change Grant for Bertans if you like. FAcy this year is meager. The priority is development and hopefully enough succes to make POs. I think this is the way TS is gonna go. Any input into answering my questions?

Because we have so much cap and the FAcy pool is limited, we have options to take useable NBA players into capspace (not the Parson like deal). Teams that may be looking to make financial decisions, looking to avoid Luxury taxes, etc. Make ideal candidates for our capspace use.

Example:
1. Cory Joseph and Bjelicia into capspace (Salary dump for the Kings) - that fills our need at Backup PG and PF for $19 million. Still leaves $24ish mil to fill out the rest of the roster.

2. If Minny drafts Edwards, they may be reluctant to resign Beasly at over $10 mil plus.(since they also have Culver and Okogi at SG). Hawks can make a play for him. This is inline with TS's comment about competition among our young players.

3. Minny if they are looking to cut salary - James Johnson and #17 to Hawks. Use #17 to draft a PFor PG for next season when Bjelicia, Johnson and Joseph can come off the books.

Capela / Dedman / Bruno
Collins /Bjelicia/JJohnson.
Hunter/Cam/ Okoro
Beasley/Heurter
Trae /Cory J/Goodwin

This upgrades the team for 2020 and still leaves us flexible for the 2021 offseason.

There are lots of scenarios besides just the FA pool - this is just one.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#444 » by graymule » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:13 pm

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:I'm going to throw out a hypothetical offseason to propose a line up for next season. I think that it's a plan that will fall into TS's plan. Playoffs? Better options?

Draft: Okoro or backup PG/SG like Hali. Developmental SRP. For my senario I'm gonna go Okoro
FA: Bertans/Teague/B. Portis: couple of 1 year deals and a good deal for the third

Capela / Dedman / Bruno
Collins / Portis
Hunter / Bertans / Okoro
Cam / Heurter
Trae / JT / Goodwin

Add SRP and look to absorb a bad 1 year deal for a future FRP.

Is this the plan? Is it a good plan? Playoff team?

I see an east EC playoff team leaving max cap for 21 and prioritizing core development

Bertans is a PF. Not a fan of Portis.

:D
Did you forget a PF that we already have? Skal is 6'10" 235 lbs. Looking forward to seeing him as a Hawk !!

:D :D
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#445 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:36 am

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:OK. You can change Grant for Bertans if you like. FAcy this year is meager. The priority is development and hopefully enough succes to make POs. I think this is the way TS is gonna go. Any input into answering my questions?

Because we have so much cap and the FAcy pool is limited, we have options to take useable NBA players into capspace (not the Parson like deal). Teams that may be looking to make financial decisions, looking to avoid Luxury taxes, etc. Make ideal candidates for our capspace use.

Example:
1. Cory Joseph and Bjelicia into capspace (Salary dump for the Kings) - that fills our need at Backup PG and PF for $19 million. Still leaves $24ish mil to fill out the rest of the roster.

2. If Minny drafts Edwards, they may be reluctant to resign Beasly at over $10 mil plus.(since they also have Culver and Okogi at SG). Hawks can make a play for him. This is inline with TS's comment about competition among our young players.

3. Minny if they are looking to cut salary - James Johnson and #17 to Hawks. Use #17 to draft a PFor PG for next season when Bjelicia, Johnson and Joseph can come off the books.

Capela / Dedman / Bruno
Collins /Bjelicia/JJohnson.
Hunter/Cam/ Okoro
Beasley/Heurter
Trae /Cory J/Goodwin

This upgrades the team for 2020 and still leaves us flexible for the 2021 offseason.

There are lots of scenarios besides just the FA pool - this is just one.


That looks good. I don't know exactly which players, but it looks like the plan that TS is likely to follow. Should get the Hawks to the POs
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#446 » by saloonyk8 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:34 pm

Upon further thought I think this offseason should be another do nothing type (no major trades or FA moves) IMO. We should just take BPA at 6, Halliburton or Okongwu. Unless Ingram wants out of NOLA, we should just try best as possible to roll over all the space for one last run at FA.

After another year we'll see what we have in Reddish, Huerter, and Hunter and even if they're tradeable, maybe their value will go up. I guess next offseason 2021 will be the real deal for a ton of NBA teams.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#447 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:16 pm

saloonyk8 wrote:Upon further thought I think this offseason should be another do nothing type (no major trades or FA moves) IMO. ...I guess next offseason 2021 will be the real deal for a ton of NBA teams.



This isn't the wrong approach. But if we're really trying to attract top unrestricted Free Agents in 2021, we have to show legit improvement now.

Otherwise, no top player will take us seriously next summer.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#448 » by jayu70 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:56 pm

saloonyk8 wrote:Upon further thought I think this offseason should be another do nothing type (no major trades or FA moves) IMO. We should just take BPA at 6, Halliburton or Okongwu. Unless Ingram wants out of NOLA, we should just try best as possible to roll over all the space for one last run at FA.

After another year we'll see what we have in Reddish, Huerter, and Hunter and even if they're tradeable, maybe their value will go up. I guess next offseason 2021 will be the real deal for a ton of NBA teams.

You can't not do something. But we have already started the process by trading for Capela and bringing back Dedmon and Teague 9if we resign him).
We need at least an NBA quality bench. We can't go into this season with a bench like last season. There are FAs to be had, trades to be made while still maintaining financial flexibility for next offseason.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#449 » by saloonyk8 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:06 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
saloonyk8 wrote:Upon further thought I think this offseason should be another do nothing type (no major trades or FA moves) IMO. ...I guess next offseason 2021 will be the real deal for a ton of NBA teams.



This isn't the wrong approach. But if we're really trying to attract top unrestricted Free Agents in 2021, we have to show legit improvement now.

Otherwise, no top player will take us seriously next summer.


Even for a second tier FA, we'll need to make AT LEAST the playoffs at 7/8 seed and win a game or two. I can be talked into a playoff team with Capela/Collins/Hunter/Reddish/Huerter/Trae....it's going to take those young guys showing a LOT of growth, like Cam needs to average 16-18 ppg and Hunter and Huerter needs to be really good defensively.

Is there anyone in that core you would trade or better position yourself for a better playoff team? I'm not sure I would trade any of them.

And who's the FA target anyway? Last year we learned most of those decisions are made between players and has nothing to do with anything at times. Like KD and Kyrie just decided on their own. Butler decided he wanted to go Miami and they had no cap space. If we want a FA it needs to be done now by Trae or someone else
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#450 » by saloonyk8 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:14 pm

My offseason wish list for 2021 would be Giannis, Gobert and Oladipo (probably in that order). I think there's no realistic chance of Kawhi, PG, Lebron or AD leaving LA for Atlanta.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#451 » by Radioblacktive1 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 am

What are the odds Clint throws up a couple threes this season?
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#452 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:40 pm

Future Power Rankings: How All 30 Teams Are Set Up for the Next 3 Years

13. Atlanta Hawks

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Opportunity props up the Atlanta Hawks' place over the teams they've yet to officially outstrip. They don't have the next-year pinnacles of the Rockets or Jazz, and they've shown less, to date, than the upstart Grizzlies.

Playing within the comfy confines of the East helps a great deal. The path from 14th in the conference to postseason irritant is not unimaginably steep, and Atlanta has the ingredients to make the rare insta-leap.

That case begins and ends with Trae Young. Shoddy defense compromises his stardom only so much. The Hawks go from pumping in 111.4 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor to mustering just 99.5 when he sits—the difference between an attack that rates in the 54th percentile and 3rd percentile. He injects more value into Atlanta's offense than he gives back at the other end despite grading out as the league's worst defender, according to ESPN's real plus-minus.

Filling out the rest of the roster around such a vulnerable defender does muddle the team-building process, but the Hawks are off to a good start. Cam Reddish provides cover in the backcourt, and the arrival of Clint Capela helps the back line if he can remain healthy and John Collins (extension-eligible) hangs versus 4s. Atlanta's all-kids lineup of Collins, Reddish, Young, Kevin Huerter and De'Andre Hunter also fared quite well this season on limited reps (442 possessions).

Bulking up the wing rotation and adding another playmaker who lets Young cook as an off-ball shooter are both musts if the Hawks are going to enjoy a meteoric rise. They have the tools to get it done. They have more cap space than any other team in free agency, with the option of kicking the can to 2021, when Young will still be on his rookie-scale salary.

Call this a calculated gamble. It is. But each conference has that next team up, the squad most likely to make a mega leap in a short span of time. The West has more than its fair share of possibilities. The East has Atlanta.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#453 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:33 am

Will Heat’s quick rise reduce patience for slow rebuilds?

The Heat went 39-43 last season. They had won only one playoff game in the last three years. They had missed the postseason altogether in three of the last five years. Their payroll was bloated. Miami’s roster, weighted for playing time, was older than league average. The Heat owed a future first-round pick after trading for Goran Dragic years prior.

To many, the situation appeared ripe for tanking. Miami could lose, pick high in the draft, trade its good players for even more draft picks and eventually escape mediocrity.

Instead, the Heat surrendered a first-round pick in order to give 30-year-old Jimmy Butler a max contract.

Now, Miami is in the conference finals.

Brian Windhorst of ESPN:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

“Every team’s situation is different, that’s just a fact,” one league general manager said. “But there are probably owners out there who will look at what the Heat have done and think, ‘Why can’t we do that?’ instead of bottoming out, then building back up.”

Said another longtime front-office executive: “There’s a lot of different ways to win. But the Heat did make this turnaround happen faster than normal, and that doesn’t go unnoticed by people who have been sitting through losing.”

The Heat’s rebuild stands in sharp contrast to The Process. The 76ers stunk for four miserable seasons to build up assets. The reward (so far)? Two second-round and one first-round exit.

Miami has already surpassed that. Tanking teams do better at accumulating assets. But they more often struggle to keep young players focused and committed amid losing.

These are tradeoffs, and successful organizations strike the right balance.


But results draw attention. Context isn’t always fully considered. Miami jumped from the lottery to the conference finals in only one season. In a copycat league, that increases pressure on executives preaching patience.
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#454 » by tbhawksfan1 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:22 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
Will Heat’s quick rise reduce patience for slow rebuilds?

The Heat went 39-43 last season. They had won only one playoff game in the last three years. They had missed the postseason altogether in three of the last five years. Their payroll was bloated. Miami’s roster, weighted for playing time, was older than league average. The Heat owed a future first-round pick after trading for Goran Dragic years prior.

To many, the situation appeared ripe for tanking. Miami could lose, pick high in the draft, trade its good players for even more draft picks and eventually escape mediocrity.

Instead, the Heat surrendered a first-round pick in order to give 30-year-old Jimmy Butler a max contract.

Now, Miami is in the conference finals.

Brian Windhorst of ESPN:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

“Every team’s situation is different, that’s just a fact,” one league general manager said. “But there are probably owners out there who will look at what the Heat have done and think, ‘Why can’t we do that?’ instead of bottoming out, then building back up.”

Said another longtime front-office executive: “There’s a lot of different ways to win. But the Heat did make this turnaround happen faster than normal, and that doesn’t go unnoticed by people who have been sitting through losing.”

The Heat’s rebuild stands in sharp contrast to The Process. The 76ers stunk for four miserable seasons to build up assets. The reward (so far)? Two second-round and one first-round exit.

Miami has already surpassed that. Tanking teams do better at accumulating assets. But they more often struggle to keep young players focused and committed amid losing.

These are tradeoffs, and successful organizations strike the right balance.


I agree with that Miami didn't need to rebuild. After losing Horf and Sap in back to back offseasons Hawks had no choice. You have to look at every team and situation. You can't just create a one plan fits everybody thing.

As for the Hawks, it's time to start improving the W-L column. It's time to field a competitive team. We need a coach that is going to push these guys to wins, whether that be TP or not. I think Cam/Heute/Hunter still need a year or two to develop, but bringing in a few quality vets can make the team competitive this season.

TS has already shown that he gets it by bringing in Capela and Dedman. He absolutely has the assets to upgrade the team this offseason. Hawks are on course to start winning. The only question now is how much ceiling can you get out of the rebuild?
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Re: Rebuild reality and doin it right 

Post#455 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:19 pm

Championship Windows for the NBA's 10 Worst Teams

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Atlanta Hawks: 2022-23

In Trae Young, the Hawks have their organizational centerpiece, which is the most critical thing for a rebuilder to find. Even if he remains dreadful on defense (dead last in defensive real plus-minus this season), he's so absurdly skilled on offense that he remains a big net positive (7.3 points better per 100 possessions with him than without) and gives Atlanta its identity.

The strength of the supporting cast is to be determined, though it's certainly intriguing.

John Collins produces like an All-Star (21.6 points, 10.1 rebounds per game), although there are redundancies between him and Clint Capela, which could make it hard to find the right number for Collins' extension. The wing collection combines high floors with high ceilings, and this club gets a lot more interesting if Cam Reddish realizes his two-way potential.

Atlanta still feels one star short of contention, so this projection bakes in three years to find or develop that player while the rest of the roster keeps climbing. The missing piece could come from the draft, trades or free agency, but external assistance is required for the Hawks to soar into championship contention.
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