How to pick a bust...

[Rocketsbaby]

Let me preface this by saying that I actually like Trae Young. His quickness and the range on his jumper is legit. I'm not afraid of his size (I had the same arguments for Chris Paul 13 years ago). More importantly, he's a Hawk now and all those other prospects are the enemy. So I wish him nothing but the best. This post isn't about Trae...it's about how you shoot yourself in the face trying to get cute in the draft.

Seriously, how many times is a guy "James Worthy with a jumpshot" or "Baby Jordan" or "The next LeBron James" or "KD 2.0?" And how many times does that player actually become THAT player? In my 30 year experience, it almost never happens. What I've seen in the draft is consensus guys/generational talent going on to become great NBA players and sleepers who slide and eventually blossom. These players always set a standard and like lemmings, GMs are always lining up trying to find the next iteration of them. But it's never the second coming of Jesus Shuttlesworth that they find (little OG reference there ).

You don't put the blinders on and chase one idea - such as an all 6'8" team or one player because you think he's the next Tim Duncan. You take the 6'8" kid who has been leading a professional team for years, who can shoot the ball and finish in the lane. He's the guy that'll set the standard and have GM's scrambling to find the next one. You take Luca. That's the guy to pick. You don't pass on that guy because you have the blinders on and all you see is Steph Curry 2.0. That is how you pick a bust and it haunts you for years to come.

Not saying Trae will bust, because again...I do like him. However, from all the pre-draft mocks and rumors, it seems like our GM was locked in on him and nobody else. If he pans out and we end up with a good lottery pick next year, I'll breathe a sigh of relief. It's not a total loss. Though, the ATL Sports Fan in me just expects the worst and this is a surefire way to stir up the curse.

Another classic by our guy @wretch. I'd been saying all this in the days leading up to the draft. Never, ever draft for 'the next'. Never works out. Never.

ETA: I'm sure I speak for many when I say the squawk needs you.

Yeah this is really a great post. You can tell this is someone who has watched a lot of basketball over the years.

After a certain age you just "get it". You learn to see through all the hype, the 2.0's, the mixtapes etc. I don't watch much college ball. I can read a prospect's scouting report and often tell if the guy is going to suck or not just based on certain key words or when it feels like they're really reaching to downplay someone's negatives.

I'm not saying i get every one of these right... but like you read Donovan Mitchell's scouting report last year and you'd immediately say oh there's a guy I'd take in the top 10 for sure. Then you read Dennis SMith, Jr scouting report and with all the red flags you say wow, this guy sounds like a 2nd round flyer pick at best...

Don't get cute. Luka is the #1 pick. Yuo dont screw around when guys like this come along and fall into your laps at #3 for gods sake. There will be another Trae Young next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.


When's the next Luka coming around? Probably not this decade...

[atlantabbq99]

Say it louder for the people in the back!

Trae Young = I want to be the best that ever played. I want to be a role model to all the kids out there.

Luka Doncic = I will make the teams that passed on me sorry.

Luka seems to think he has arrived. No the NBA is a different animal in regards to athleticism. He is going to have to work hard to play at the same level as the ACB b/c, although his is talented, his deficiencies will come out that did not come out in Euroball..I am not saying ACB is not a premier and tough league. Its more competition than the NCAA, but its a different game and it hides his deficiencies, those same deficiencies will be exploited in the NBA if he is not teachable, humble, and willing to work hard. He has to change his game. He has to play wing, he wont be able to see over opposing players as easily b/c his height advantage will be diminished. As a wing, he needs to learn to shoot the 3, etc, etc.

Hmm i don't understand quite frankly what you are trying to prove here but... Yes it is true, game is different. But you are probably not aware that Luka went up against higher players per average in EU than Trae went in the NCAA. Higher and tougher opponents i must add. He played 1-4 already with Real Madrid, i think he has a ton of experience how to adapt properly.

Also, he said 10000 times by now that his role model is Lebron and he wants to get as strong as he is one day. Which means countless hours of gym/conditioning training. Also needs to improve handles/shooting. I am not saying he will be a monster like LBJ but it tells us that he is willing to work hard.

He knows nothing but winning championships, and collecting MVP trophies along the way, since he was 10y old. Then he moved to Spain at 13 and continued in minor leagues with same success, winning everything, all the way up to seniors.

I mean, questioning the motor from a guy who started playing bball since he could walk and has won countless titles/championships along the way is kinda silly They even asked him how he feels going from a winning team to a rebuilding team and he said it will be tough to adjust. His mentality is win win win.

I get that you are trying to justify the trade in favor of Young but no matter how you spin it, right now it looks like ATL blew the draft. Only time will tell if Young can be better than Luka.

I am very aware that Luka went up against tougher players in EU than Trae in NCAA. I actually said that in my post that you quoted. They are tougher and better, but EU ball is not as explosive and athletic. This is why retired NBA players go to EU once their athleticism declines. This is why a spot up shooter in the NBA (Gary Neal) can become the most versatile scorer and an offensive monster in EU. He was 3rd in MVP voting for Liga ACB last year. He couldnt get a second 10 day contract in Atlanta. Why b/c although Neal is skilled, he is relegated to a spot up shooter in the NBA b/c his lack of athleticsm. This deficicnecy does not show in EU ball. Is EU ball more skilled than the NCAA, are they better players? YES!! are they more Athletic. NO!!. Luka's one flaw is the one thing that is hidden in EU ball and exploited in the NBA.I am not saying Luka will be anywhere near Gary Neal. He will be much much better. I think he is a future all star. I am not comparing the two in that way, but I am saying they both have the same flaw..and that flaw does not translate well in the NBA. Particulary for guards. He can work out and get strong like Lebron all he wants, strenght is not athleticsm. He can get conditioning all he wants, conditioning is not athleticism. And I am not questioning Luka's motor. I am (admittedly with too little info) potentially questioning his coachability. I can be wrong, but I see Luka as a potential all star. but I see Trae as a potential all star..would I pick Trae over Luka..nope, Trae is more risky imo. but I think the first round pick added on makes it worth the risk. but thats just me.

You are right, Doncic is not explosive and didn't got up against super freak athletic defenders, but Harden is not explosive with a 40 vert, Curry, Klay, Dirk, Magic, Bird are not explosive or have a 40 vert, so who cares about that. Doncic has elite ball handling skills, which makes him quicker than he really is, just like how Nash was quick not because of his speed, but because of his ability to control the ball.

[D21]

Somebody is lying regarding Doncic, and we will see who, because lots of people assume he's not explosive, he's slow,... while there's a video on his physical stating he's better than what people think and than most NBA guards

You will never see Trae switching then rebounding or blocking at the rim like Doncic can do, even if he's lacking athleticism, which is yet to prove.
They don't have the same game at all, and they will need different systems to be at their best, but more than the possibility of one or the other being a bust, I just think that when lower teams want to go higher for a guy in the draft, it's a signal that this guy will be better, because that's what happened almost every time.
Now, it's individually, and if Schlenk has a system in mind and it needs some kind of players, let's do it and we will see if he was wrong or not.

[atlantabbq99]

Here is a fun watch...

Watch on YouTube

[D21]

Here is a fun watch...

And I remember Jennings opening his mouth in several interviews and saying it would be stupid to pick Rubio over Flynn or him (not sure if he added Curry) and then that they would show they are better than him... tell it to UTA now

[Ball4life32]

Let me preface this by saying that I actually like Trae Young. His quickness and the range on his jumper is legit. I'm not afraid of his size (I had the same arguments for Chris Paul 13 years ago). More importantly, he's a Hawk now and all those other prospects are the enemy. So I wish him nothing but the best. This post isn't about Trae...it's about how you shoot yourself in the face trying to get cute in the draft.

Seriously, how many times is a guy "James Worthy with a jumpshot" or "Baby Jordan" or "The next LeBron James" or "KD 2.0?" And how many times does that player actually become THAT player? In my 30 year experience, it almost never happens. What I've seen in the draft is consensus guys/generational talent going on to become great NBA players and sleepers who slide and eventually blossom. These players always set a standard and like lemmings, GMs are always lining up trying to find the next iteration of them. But it's never the second coming of Jesus Shuttlesworth that they find (little OG reference there ).

You don't put the blinders on and chase one idea - such as an all 6'8" team or one player because you think he's the next Tim Duncan. You take the 6'8" kid who has been leading a professional team for years, who can shoot the ball and finish in the lane. He's the guy that'll set the standard and have GM's scrambling to find the next one. You take Luca. That's the guy to pick. You don't pass on that guy because you have the blinders on and all you see is Steph Curry 2.0. That is how you pick a bust and it haunts you for years to come.

Not saying Trae will bust, because again...I do like him. However, from all the pre-draft mocks and rumors, it seems like our GM was locked in on him and nobody else. If he pans out and we end up with a good lottery pick next year, I'll breathe a sigh of relief. It's not a total loss. Though, the ATL Sports Fan in me just expects the worst and this is a surefire way to stir up the curse.

Another classic by our guy @wretch. I'd been saying all this in the days leading up to the draft. Never, ever draft for 'the next'. Never works out. Never.

ETA: I'm sure I speak for many when I say the squawk needs you.

Yeah this is really a great post. You can tell this is someone who has watched a lot of basketball over the years.

After a certain age you just "get it". You learn to see through all the hype, the 2.0's, the mixtapes etc. I don't watch much college ball. I can read a prospect's scouting report and often tell if the guy is going to suck or not just based on certain key words or when it feels like they're really reaching to downplay someone's negatives.

I'm not saying i get every one of these right... but like you read Donovan Mitchell's scouting report last year and you'd immediately say oh there's a guy I'd take in the top 10 for sure. Then you read Dennis SMith, Jr scouting report and with all the red flags you say wow, this guy sounds like a 2nd round flyer pick at best...

Don't get cute. Luka is the #1 pick. Yuo dont screw around when guys like this come along and fall into your laps at #3 for gods sake. There will be another Trae Young next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.


When's the next Luka coming around? Probably not this decade...

This is laughable. Trae Young 27.4 points, 8.7 assists, 3.9 rebounds per game as a 19 year old freshman. Only player ever to lead the nation in points and assists. But there’s guys like Trae in every draft?

[reazun]

Somebody is lying regarding Doncic, and we will see who, because lots of people assume he's not explosive, he's slow,... while there's a video on his physical stating he's better than what people think and than most NBA guards

You will never see Trae switching then rebounding or blocking at the rim like Doncic can do, even if he's lacking athleticism, which is yet to prove.
They don't have the same game at all, and they will need different systems to be at their best, but more than the possibility of one or the other being a bust, I just think that when lower teams want to go higher for a guy in the draft, it's a signal that this guy will be better, because that's what happened almost every time.
Now, it's individually, and if Schlenk has a system in mind and it needs some kind of players, let's do it and we will see if he was wrong or not.

What physicals are you looking at? Just curious. Is it the p3 info? Doncic will not bust. His floor is very high. He will be good. I don't see anyway possible he won't be good. But I think his ceiling is much lower than others. I don't think he will be a superstar in this league. Nash was quick. .He couldn't jump but he was very quick imo. We will have to wait and see i guess

Sent from my SM-J727P using RealGM mobile app

[Rockmaninoff]

Another classic by our guy @wretch. I'd been saying all this in the days leading up to the draft. Never, ever draft for 'the next'. Never works out. Never.

ETA: I'm sure I speak for many when I say the squawk needs you.

Yeah this is really a great post. You can tell this is someone who has watched a lot of basketball over the years.

After a certain age you just "get it". You learn to see through all the hype, the 2.0's, the mixtapes etc. I don't watch much college ball. I can read a prospect's scouting report and often tell if the guy is going to suck or not just based on certain key words or when it feels like they're really reaching to downplay someone's negatives.

I'm not saying i get every one of these right... but like you read Donovan Mitchell's scouting report last year and you'd immediately say oh there's a guy I'd take in the top 10 for sure. Then you read Dennis SMith, Jr scouting report and with all the red flags you say wow, this guy sounds like a 2nd round flyer pick at best...

Don't get cute. Luka is the #1 pick. Yuo dont screw around when guys like this come along and fall into your laps at #3 for gods sake. There will be another Trae Young next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.


When's the next Luka coming around? Probably not this decade...

This is laughable. Trae Young 27.4 points, 8.7 assists, 3.9 rebounds per game as a 19 year old freshman. Only player ever to lead the nation in points and assists. But there’s guys like Trae in every draft?

Salim Stoudamiresqe.

[atlantabbq99]

Yeah this is really a great post. You can tell this is someone who has watched a lot of basketball over the years.

After a certain age you just "get it". You learn to see through all the hype, the 2.0's, the mixtapes etc. I don't watch much college ball. I can read a prospect's scouting report and often tell if the guy is going to suck or not just based on certain key words or when it feels like they're really reaching to downplay someone's negatives.

I'm not saying i get every one of these right... but like you read Donovan Mitchell's scouting report last year and you'd immediately say oh there's a guy I'd take in the top 10 for sure. Then you read Dennis SMith, Jr scouting report and with all the red flags you say wow, this guy sounds like a 2nd round flyer pick at best...

Don't get cute. Luka is the #1 pick. Yuo dont screw around when guys like this come along and fall into your laps at #3 for gods sake. There will be another Trae Young next year. And the year after that. And the year after that.


When's the next Luka coming around? Probably not this decade...

This is laughable. Trae Young 27.4 points, 8.7 assists, 3.9 rebounds per game as a 19 year old freshman. Only player ever to lead the nation in points and assists. But there’s guys like Trae in every draft?

Salim Stoudamiresqe.

Salim Stoudamire averaged 16ppg and 2 assist

I'm ok with trolling, but don't be an idiot about it

[Rockmaninoff]

This is laughable. Trae Young 27.4 points, 8.7 assists, 3.9 rebounds per game as a 19 year old freshman. Only player ever to lead the nation in points and assists. But there’s guys like Trae in every draft?

Salim Stoudamiresqe.

Salim Stoudamire averaged 16ppg and 2 assist

I'm ok with trolling, but don't be an idiot about it

I'm not trolling, I was being sarcastic. I've seen people on the Bucks board (and I think even in this thread) drop Salim as a comparison, and it's ridiculous.

I think the Hawks won the draft. I come in peace.

Now regarding this thread, it's a media narrative that Young is "the next Steph Curry". Maybe instead he's the first Trae Young.

[~Wretch~]

I'm not trolling, I was being sarcastic. I've seen people on the Bucks board (and I think even in this thread) drop Salim as a comparison, and it's ridiculous.

I think the Hawks won the draft. I come in peace.

Now regarding this thread, it's a media narrative that Young is "the next Steph Curry". Maybe instead he's the first Trae Young.

The media hype machine is a real thing. No argument there. But.....

"James Worthy with a jumpshot" came out of our GM's mouth 13 years ago and a lot of the media is former players, GM's, and coaches. So it's more than just clueless sensationalists drinking the Kool-Aid. More importantly, if you know our GM, where he's from, the things he's said, the new coach he's hired, and the picks he's made...then you kind of get an idea of his vision. Not to mention, we have been linked to Trae for a very LONG time.

If he's not drinking the Kool-Aid, then he's certainly stirring a freshly made pitcher of it.

[Ball4life32]

Salim Stoudamiresqe.

Salim Stoudamire averaged 16ppg and 2 assist

I'm ok with trolling, but don't be an idiot about it

I'm not trolling, I was being sarcastic. I've seen people on the Bucks board (and I think even in this thread) drop Salim as a comparison, and it's ridiculous.

I think the Hawks won the draft. I come in peace.

Now regarding this thread, it's a media narrative that Young is "the next Steph Curry". Maybe instead he's the first Trae Young.

Yeah I mean Salim averaged 2 apg in college in 4 years. Did not make even close to the impact Trae did as a freshman. Nowhere near similar players.

[graymule]

I see posters here and at the Squawk saying that Trae Young is like - - - . Well, one thing we know from school. He can score and he can pass the ball, creating an assist. Kevin Huerter is also a shooter and will undoubtly be a running mate. Also, our third 1st round pick is somewhat of a scorer.

Luka Doncic will surely be a good player. While we're discussing the second coming of - - - Surely you have all heard that this young
man is going to be the next Larry Bird.

[macd-gm]

:D
I see posters here and at the Squawk saying that Trae Young is like - - - . Well, one thing we know from school. He can score and he can pass the ball, creating an assist. Kevin Huerter is also a shooter and will undoubtly be a running mate. Also, our third 1st round pick is somewhat of a scorer.

Luka Doncic will surely be a good player. While we're discussing the second coming of - - - Surely you have all heard that this young
man is going to be the next Larry Bird.

Exactly. The just of the OP is never draft the guy who is over hyped and the next big thing. So that means.....take Luka Doncic???? Geez. Literally the most over hyped Euro player in history.

[tbhawksfan1]

What's clear after the draft is TS likes shooters. Doncic is not a great shooter. TS got his type player and a nice lightly protected 2019 FRP. On paper it's a good trade.

Doncic may have been hyped, but his collection of MVPs is worth some hype. Trae led the nation in two most important offensive stats. I can't fault the trade even though I would have taken Doncic; Trae and a likely 10ish pick next year is a good deal for the Hawks.

Now my concerns are similar to last year regarding "to tank or not to tank" because we've got a few win now players on a team that is still very low in talent. Looks like another tank season to me. Hope TS can move a couple win now pieces for picks. And then there is Schro who seemed to be a nice young starting PG so little time ago and now is completely disgruntled and a bad contract.

My summer wish list: trade Dedmon, Moose and Schro. Dedmon and Moose should bring in some value and Schro shouldn't require draft assets to move.

Hawks should have even more draft value in next draft. Hope the rating on said draft improves over the next year.

[atlantabbq99]

DO NOT TANK!

I'm ok with tanking for one year, but consecutive years of tanking is cheating, just on a moral basis for me.

[Ball4life32]

Hard not to do a worse job rebuilding than the hawks have done thus far. Welp, tiem for some panic signings!

From the guy that thinks Doncic is a lock for the hall of fame and Bagley and Ayton will be out of the league in 5 years.

[Archx]

Why are you guys still arguing about Doncic? He has the same chance of success as Young. Both have a lot of work ahead of them... Be happy that you at least got a player who people think is the next Curry.

[tbhawksfan1]

DO NOT TANK!

I'm ok with tanking for one year, but consecutive years of tanking is cheating, just on a moral basis for me.

Tanking is usualy not a choice but a condition of talent depleation.

[CP War Hawks]

Wanted to hold opinion until a few SL games. LD is a going to be a good player, but he's no generational talent. Euros like Dirk who's 7 foot, that could handle, shoot it from deep, strong outer post game, etc. hadn't been seen to that degree before him.

He revolunized the current NBA game. Rubio was suppose to be the next Pistol Pete, but his best NBA skillset is perhaps defense, and not his passing.

My last point is I'll take TY and whatever wing/bpa we get from the Dallas pick over LD as it stands. Possibly a top 10 player in time, but it's very unlikely, and I'll give TY the same predicament.