Rookie of the Year Watch

[MaceCase]

I’m finding all of this a tad interesting. Go back a couple years to say a “who’s better, Kobe or LeBron?” debate and the general media and message boards alike would do a collective eye roll whenever anyone brought up any advanced stat.

Flashforward to today and people are going so far as to dig up PIE (I mean seriously, PIE!) in debates. I’m all for the stats revolution as long as the writers and fans Keep *clap* That *clap* Same *clap* Energy *clap* when it comes to all other debates including MVP. I don’t want to hear or read how someone “feels” that Giannis or Harden should win.

Just so you know, I almost withheld my like because you failed to *clap* with every syllable in en-er-gy.

Honestly, I was already exhausted from having to type "clap" repeatedly. RGM's emoji selection is lacking, this fella doesn't adequately convey aggressiveness at all.

[kg01]

I’m finding all of this a tad interesting. Go back a couple years to say a “who’s better, Kobe or LeBron?” debate and the general media and message boards alike would do a collective eye roll whenever anyone brought up any advanced stat.

Flashforward to today and people are going so far as to dig up PIE (I mean seriously, PIE!) in debates. I’m all for the stats revolution as long as the writers and fans Keep *clap* That *clap* Same *clap* Energy *clap* when it comes to all other debates including MVP. I don’t want to hear or read how someone “feels” that Giannis or Harden should win.

Just so you know, I almost withheld my like because you failed to *clap* with every syllable in en-er-gy.

Honestly, I was already exhausted from having to type "clap" repeatedly. RGM's emoji selection is lacking, this fella doesn't adequately convey aggressiveness at all.

Well, instead of paying Consuela for "services rendered", maybe you should foot the 'Squawk bill.

[Spud2nique]

Just so you know, I almost withheld my like because you failed to *clap* with every syllable in en-er-gy.

Honestly, I was already exhausted from having to type "clap" repeatedly. RGM's emoji selection is lacking, this fella doesn't adequately convey aggressiveness at all.

Well, instead of paying Consuela for "services rendered", maybe you should foot the 'Squawk bill.

I miss Consuela talk!

[kg01]

Honestly, I was already exhausted from having to type "clap" repeatedly. RGM's emoji selection is lacking, this fella doesn't adequately convey aggressiveness at all.

Well, instead of paying Consuela for "services rendered", maybe you should foot the 'Squawk bill.

I miss Consuela talk!

We all miss it.

#BrangBakConsuela

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

Another guy that says it’s not even close...agendas agendas!

https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/Article/Mavs-Luka-Doncic-vs-Hawks-Trae-Young-An-objective-look-at-the-ROY-numbers-that-arent-really-close-131012191/

This is the same moron quoted above who makes the case in his article that Luka led the team in rebounds despite having 50% of the actual team leader in rebounds per game and despite not having the most total rebounds for the season. It wasn't even close but the guy still makes this claim to bolster the argument that he meant more to his team because he led the team in more categories.

He also switches methodologies back and forth to try to make Luka look good and Trae bad. He uses total steals to declare Luka the steals leader for the team even though Luka didn't lead the team in steals per game (Dennis Smith 1.3 steals per game versus 1.1 steals per game for Luka) but then uses points per game instead of total points to declare Collins the leading scorer for the Hawks over Trae (1549 total points for Trae versus 1188 for Collins).

Both a liar and a disingenuous manipulator of facts all in the same article and he does it only to make the case that the race isn't really close. Luka has the resume to make a strong argument that he is the correct pick without this type of bad faith writing.

[MaceCase]

Well, instead of paying Consuela for "services rendered", maybe you should foot the 'Squawk bill.

I miss Consuela talk!

We all miss it.

#BrangBakConsuela

In light of the current administration I had to let Consuela and the others go. Couldn’t have those suspicious white vans parked outside come across what I had them bagging, er I mean cleaning in the backroom in case there was an ICE sweep.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

Young has lifted his game, but Doncic never truly dropped off.

You could also argue it’s easier to play well later in the year, the way Young has, with six of his seven highest scoring games coming in the final quarter of the season.

As impressive as those performances were, there’s no better time to get buckets than when the league’s destitute teams are already in full-blown tank mode.

And most of those teams conveniently reside in Trae’s conference, not Luka’s.

There’s always an outside chance that recency bias rears its ugly head and hands Young the trophy.

But Doncic is the true Rookie of the Year.

[kg01]

Read on Twitter

Young has lifted his game, but Doncic never truly dropped off.

You could also argue it’s easier to play well later in the year, the way Young has, with six of his seven highest scoring games coming in the final quarter of the season.

As impressive as those performances were, there’s no better time to get buckets than when the league’s destitute teams are already in full-blown tank mode.

And most of those teams conveniently reside in Trae’s conference, not Luka’s.

There’s always an outside chance that recency bias rears its ugly head and hands Young the trophy.

But Doncic is the true Rookie of the Year.

No need to cry, @jamalllo. I think, this time next year, we'll be quite happy with how Young's career will be progressing. ROTY or no.

As long as folks acknowledge Young has had a great (not good) rookie year, I got no prollems (yes, prollems) with how the vote ends up.

[leolozon]

Team Leaders for the Mavs:
Luka Doncic 7.8 rpg, DeAndre Jordan 13.8 rpg - Team Leader: Luka
Luke Doncic 1.1 spg, Dennis Smith 1.3 spg - Team Leader: Luka

Because these guys got traded we'll ignore them for the narrative and pretend like they played a full season and finished behind him.

Oh wait, Jordan actually had 638 rebounds even with him being traded to Luka's 563. So remind me how Luka was the team leader for rebounds again?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. There's a minimum you have to play for your stats to count as a leader. For the league, I know it's 58 games and it looks like they have it for teams also. You are trying to see a problem where there isn't and calling people liars when they aren't.

Doncic is listed as the leader on ESPN.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/dal/table/game/sort/avgRebounds/dir/desc

For the Lakers, Lebron isn't considered like the leader, because he didn't play 58 games.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/lal

It actually makes sense. Why would you be considered a leader if you played under X amount of games? They put the cut off at 70%, maybe it could be lower, but considering the actual "rule", people are right to say that Doncic is the leader.

[hawkmanreturns]

Honestly, I think we all know who is winning ROTY. What I don't get is why people get so defensive when Trae's name gets brought up in the conversation. I can understand the fanatics doing this, even though it's still weird that they scour the internet for any article, thread, or video about Trae to bring up their guy. But it's like these "journalists" and keyboard scouts are just mad that Trae had the audacity to prove them wrong.

[kg01]

Honestly, I think we all know who is winning ROTY. What I don't get is why people get so defensive when Trae's name gets brought up in the conversation. I can understand the fanatics doing this, even though it's still weird that they scour the internet for any article, thread, or video about Trae to bring up their guy. But it's like these "journalists" and keyboard scouts are just mad that Trae had the audacity to prove them wrong.

Eggsactly. It's ok to just vote for the other guy. No need to tear down Trae along the way.

Like, "How dare you exceed expectations and make me look like a fool for saying you'd be a bust ... {clickty click, click, click}" ..."

And lol @ all these posters eatin' it all up. Lurkin' on our board for the chance to pounce on a L*** mention. Get a life.

[macd-gm]

And it's super disingenuous to claim that the stats aren't incredibly close in almost every respect. They are both amazing rookie seasons. I can find legit reasons why either one of them deserves it over the other. To claim either one is an obvious choice is a joke.

[shakes0]

Honestly, I think we all know who is winning ROTY. What I don't get is why people get so defensive when Trae's name gets brought up in the conversation. I can understand the fanatics doing this, even though it's still weird that they scour the internet for any article, thread, or video about Trae to bring up their guy. But it's like these "journalists" and keyboard scouts are just mad that Trae had the audacity to prove them wrong.

Eggsactly. It's ok to just vote for the other guy. No need to tear down Trae along the way.

Like, "How dare you exceed expectations and make me look like a fool for saying you'd be a bust ... {clickty click, click, click}" ..."

And lol @ all these posters eatin' it all up. Lurkin' on our board for the chance to pounce on a L*** mention. Get a life.

That's pretty much it. Journalists and people who post here don't like being made to look like idiots and that's what Trae has done to anyone who said he would be a bust (and that's a lot of people). Now, even when those people admit they were wrong they still try and find ways to rip on Trae in the process. These days, that means ripping on Trae's defense. Heard Brian Geltzheir do that exact thing on NBA radio last week...admitted he was wrong about Trae BUT he is still concerned about his ability to play in the league long term because of his defense.

[marco102]

Honestly, I think we all know who is winning ROTY. What I don't get is why people get so defensive when Trae's name gets brought up in the conversation. I can understand the fanatics doing this, even though it's still weird that they scour the internet for any article, thread, or video about Trae to bring up their guy. But it's like these "journalists" and keyboard scouts are just mad that Trae had the audacity to prove them wrong.

Eggsactly. It's ok to just vote for the other guy. No need to tear down Trae along the way.

Like, "How dare you exceed expectations and make me look like a fool for saying you'd be a bust ... {clickty click, click, click}" ..."

And lol @ all these posters eatin' it all up. Lurkin' on our board for the chance to pounce on a L*** mention. Get a life.

That's pretty much it. Journalists and people who post here don't like being made to look like idiots and that's what Trae has done to anyone who said he would be a bust (and that's a lot of people). Now, even when those people admit they were wrong they still try and find ways to rip on Trae in the process. These days, that means ripping on Trae's defense. Heard Brian Geltzheir do that exact thing on NBA radio last week...admitted he was wrong about Trae BUT he is still concerned about his ability to play in the league long term because of his defense.

This is what kills me! Like I've never heard defense being brought up to tear a player down. Like NO one thought Trae would be a good defender. He improved his defense throughout the season, that's all I can hope for.

[Jamaaliver]

You guys are getting much to emotionally invested in this:

[kg01]

Honestly, I think we all know who is winning ROTY. What I don't get is why people get so defensive when Trae's name gets brought up in the conversation. I can understand the fanatics doing this, even though it's still weird that they scour the internet for any article, thread, or video about Trae to bring up their guy. But it's like these "journalists" and keyboard scouts are just mad that Trae had the audacity to prove them wrong.

Eggsactly. It's ok to just vote for the other guy. No need to tear down Trae along the way.

Like, "How dare you exceed expectations and make me look like a fool for saying you'd be a bust ... {clickty click, click, click}" ..."

And lol @ all these posters eatin' it all up. Lurkin' on our board for the chance to pounce on a L*** mention. Get a life.

That's pretty much it. Journalists and people who post here don't like being made to look like idiots and that's what Trae has done to anyone who said he would be a bust (and that's a lot of people). Now, even when those people admit they were wrong they still try and find ways to rip on Trae in the process. These days, that means ripping on Trae's defense. Heard Brian Geltzheir do that exact thing on NBA radio last week...admitted he was wrong about Trae BUT he is still concerned about his ability to play in the league long term because of his defense.

OMFG I can't stand that guy. Typical, "I was wrong .. but I was right!" comment.

As if it's uncommon for a rookie guard to struggle defensively. Friggin Donovan Mitchell struggles in his second year. Is anyone concerned for him "long term because of his defense"?

All that's left is his size. That'll never change so, despite whatever he does positively, the TrHaters will always fall back on, "He can't get any taller so ... blah, blah, blah ..."

Can't just say they were wrong and leave it at that.

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

Team Leaders for the Mavs:
Luka Doncic 7.8 rpg, DeAndre Jordan 13.8 rpg - Team Leader: Luka
Luke Doncic 1.1 spg, Dennis Smith 1.3 spg - Team Leader: Luka

Because these guys got traded we'll ignore them for the narrative and pretend like they played a full season and finished behind him.

Oh wait, Jordan actually had 638 rebounds even with him being traded to Luka's 563. So remind me how Luka was the team leader for rebounds again?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. There's a minimum you have to play for your stats to count as a leader. For the league, I know it's 58 games and it looks like they have it for teams also. You are trying to see a problem where there isn't and calling people liars when they aren't.

Doncic is listed as the leader on ESPN.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/dal/table/game/sort/avgRebounds/dir/desc

For the Lakers, Lebron isn't considered like the leader, because he didn't play 58 games.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/lal

It actually makes sense. Why would you be considered a leader if you played under X amount of games? They put the cut off at 70%, maybe it could be lower, but considering the actual "rule", people are right to say that Doncic is the leader.

LMFAO.

First, Jordan played 69 games this season which is more than enough to qualify under a minimum game count for statistical relevance.

Second, if you are using 58 games for a given team as the minimum then you better spell that out because you are damning your own candidate with faint praise. You are saying you should draw something very meaningful from the fact that Luka had more rebounds than other players on the team that played at least 58 games for the Mavs and ignore Jordan's 686 rebounds (for Dallas, he had over 900 for the season) and pretend like Luka had more when Luka only had 563 rebounds for the season? GTFO Luke didn't have the most rebounds for his team either by rebounds per game or total rebounds.

So the only defense for the way he manipulates the numbers is that he ignores the fact that the Mavericks traded a bunch of players 60% of the way through the season and pretended like only people who played more than 58 games counted?



OMG what a joke of a metric. So Luka now is only competing for the team lead in all these categories against 5 other players? WTF? Once you disqualify 15 of the 20 non-Luka players on the team this season from the comparison shouldn't you just acknowledge that it isn't a good way to compare against a guy whose best teammates all count?

Here is your list of guys who played 58 games this season for Dallas and averaged 25 or more minutes per game:

Luka Doncic

That is it. He isn't being compared against a single player who average 25 minutes or more per game this season. And you are going to try to pretend like this is something meaningful or significant that Luka had better number than a bunch of backups? And if the comparison isn't a particularly meaningful one, why emphasize as a differentiator between ROY candidates? You only do that because you are are trying deceive the audience into the thinking it is meaningful when it actually isn't.

The highest start % among the 5 players who played 58 games for Dallas this season is Jalen Brunson at 58% and he only started 38 games this season. After that they started 32% (DFS), 28.5% (Dwight Powell), 25% (Max Kleber) and the ghost of Devin Harris (your last 58 game qualified comparator) started less than 3% of games.

If this is the way the article was looking at the numbers and comparing Luka it is as disingenuous as it comes. You are ruling out Harrison Barnes, Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, Dirk Nowitzki, and THJR????

Really???

That means you are going to disqualify the non-Luka 5 people on the team who led the team in MPG and compare him only against the bench warmers who stayed the full season???

What a joke.

Again, Luka has a real case for ROY and doesn't need to rely on BS, disingenous crap like this. I think he has the strongest case of all the rookies and I'm actually ashamed that anyone would use this type of approach to prop him up. They should be too.

[graymule]

Last year, Collins made second team on the rookies. Will the same fate be waiting for Trae? We know who is rookie
of the year and 1st team member but who else makes it?

[marco102]

:wink:

Last year, Collins made second team on the rookies. Will the same fate be waiting for Trae? We know who is rookie
of the year and 1st team member but who else makes it?

Trae will def be first team because they do not take position into account for the teams. The BIGGER question is will Huerter make 2nd team.

[leolozon]

Team Leaders for the Mavs:
Luka Doncic 7.8 rpg, DeAndre Jordan 13.8 rpg - Team Leader: Luka
Luke Doncic 1.1 spg, Dennis Smith 1.3 spg - Team Leader: Luka

Because these guys got traded we'll ignore them for the narrative and pretend like they played a full season and finished behind him.

Oh wait, Jordan actually had 638 rebounds even with him being traded to Luka's 563. So remind me how Luka was the team leader for rebounds again?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. There's a minimum you have to play for your stats to count as a leader. For the league, I know it's 58 games and it looks like they have it for teams also. You are trying to see a problem where there isn't and calling people liars when they aren't.

Doncic is listed as the leader on ESPN.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/dal/table/game/sort/avgRebounds/dir/desc

For the Lakers, Lebron isn't considered like the leader, because he didn't play 58 games.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/lal

It actually makes sense. Why would you be considered a leader if you played under X amount of games? They put the cut off at 70%, maybe it could be lower, but considering the actual "rule", people are right to say that Doncic is the leader.

LMFAO.

First, Jordan played 69 games this season which is more than enough to qualify under a minimum game count for statistical relevance.

Second, if you are using 58 games for a given team as the minimum then you better spell that out because you are damning your own candidate with faint praise. You are saying you should draw something very meaningful from the fact that Luka had more rebounds than other players on the team that played at least 58 games for the Mavs and ignore Jordan's 686 rebounds (for Dallas, he had over 900 for the season) and pretend like Luka had more when Luka only had 563 rebounds for the season? GTFO Luke didn't have the most rebounds for his team either by rebounds per game or total rebounds.

So the only defense for the way he manipulates the numbers is that he ignores the fact that the Mavericks traded a bunch of players 60% of the way through the season and pretended like only people who played more than 58 games counted?



OMG what a joke of a metric. So Luka now is only competing for the team lead in all these categories against 5 other players? WTF? Once you disqualify 15 of the 20 non-Luka players on the team this season from the comparison shouldn't you just acknowledge that it isn't a good way to compare against a guy whose best teammates all count?

Here is your list of guys who played 58 games this season for Dallas and averaged 25 or more minutes per game:

Luka Doncic

That is it. He isn't being compared against a single player who average 25 minutes or more per game this season. And you are going to try to pretend like this is something meaningful or significant that Luka had better number than a bunch of backups? And if the comparison isn't a particularly meaningful one, why emphasize as a differentiator between ROY candidates? You only do that because you are are trying deceive the audience into the thinking it is meaningful when it actually isn't.

The highest start % among the 5 players who played 58 games for Dallas this season is Jalen Brunson at 58% and he only started 38 games this season. After that they started 32% (DFS), 28.5% (Dwight Powell), 25% (Max Kleber) and the ghost of Devin Harris (your last 58 game qualified comparator) started less than 3% of games.

If this is the way the article was looking at the numbers and comparing Luka it is as disingenuous as it comes. You are ruling out Harrison Barnes, Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, Dirk Nowitzki, and THJR????

Really???

That means you are going to disqualify the non-Luka 5 people on the team who led the team in MPG and compare him only against the bench warmers who stayed the full season???

What a joke.

Again, Luka has a real case for ROY and doesn't need to rely on BS, disingenous crap like this. I think he has the strongest case of all the rookies and I'm actually ashamed that anyone would use this type of approach to prop him up. They should be too.

I don''t think you understood completely what I wrote. Jordan didn't play 58 games for Dallas, therefore his stats count for the league, but not for Dallas. I'm just telling you facts. You can dislike the way it's done if you want, but no one manipulated anything. I'm not saying anything other than that. Although I think there should be some sort of cutoff, whether it should be 40 games or 58 games, I don't know.

I don't even care if Luka is 1st, 2nd or 3rd in rebounds, I agree it doesn't matter and it's not a good argument. I'm just telling you that Luka is considered the leader in RPG. Yes, Dallas is indeed a particular case as you rarely see 4 starters getting traded mid-season.

Tobias Harris is also not considered like the leader in PPG for the Clippers despite playing 55 games and averaging more PPG than Lou Williams.

https://www.nba.com/clippers/stats/leaders

It's just the way it is.
It's not manipulation.