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John Collins

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Re: John Collins 

Post#141 » by aguiar95 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:24 pm

D21 wrote:
Ball4life32 wrote:I know he hasn’t led the Hawks to the playoffs but still think he makes a big impact.

Instead of comparing with and without John, we should imagine what would be difference with John and with Sabonis instead (for example, but also because he was All-Star and John would have been already if ATL had the IND record this season).
It's not the same team, but IND without Sabonis is not the same team, and they share somthing, they both play better at PF than at C, shaving both their playing time between PF and C, and IND can re-sign him for 78M/4years... Why would ATL need to pay the Max ?



Sabonis was a 6MOTY candidate, playing 25mpg when he was paid. If his extension talks came after this season, there's no doubt he would get the max dollars. Looking at this year, Siakam, Simmons and Murray got the max (all top 2 players on their playoff team). Brown and Sabonis got value deals for their team (because they were not top 2 guys). I feel it depends on the team's cap situation as well as the fit.

If I'm ATL I'm paying the max dollars for him. Even though he might not be worth all that, I can't see FA lining up to play there. Solidify your team as a playoff contending then guys will take discounts to play there.

DAL and ATL are in similar positions, but DAL's role players fit our system and our stars.

Trae/Huerter/Hunter/Collins/Capela/Redish/2020 1st is a great future core. Not sure what the coaching situation is. Looking at the east, most teams won't go away (MIL, PHI, IND, TOR, BOS, MIA, BRO) so don't rush things, let them flow. Good luck to y'all and hope to see you guys in the finals in 5 years.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#142 » by HMFFL » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:41 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Hawks Mailbag on The Athletic:

Q. Do you think the shortened season makes it easier for the Hawks to punt on the (John) Collins decision? With the season ending early and his 25-game suspension it allows them to say that while his numbers were fantastic we just want to see that on a bigger sample size.

Chris Kirchner: It definitely makes it an easier conversation for the Hawks to have with one of their best players. I just can’t see them giving Collins an extension when he played in only 41 games this season and missed 20 games the season before. We all know that Collins was incredible this season, but I just don’t see how the Hawks could give him $100 million-plus after playing 41 games. It would just be smart business to wait until next summer.
I'm all for waiting. He's signed and players and agents need to understand they also need to wait to receive the early extensions.


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Re: John Collins 

Post#143 » by D21 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:40 pm

aguiar95 wrote:Sabonis was a 6MOTY candidate, playing 25mpg when he was paid. If his extension talks came after this season, there's no doubt he would get the max dollars. Looking at this year, Siakam, Simmons and Murray got the max (all top 2 players on their playoff team). Brown and Sabonis got value deals for their team (because they were not top 2 guys). I feel it depends on the team's cap situation as well as the fit.

If I'm ATL I'm paying the max dollars for him. Even though he might not be worth all that, I can't see FA lining up to play there. Solidify your team as a playoff contending then guys will take discounts to play there.

DAL and ATL are in similar positions, but DAL's role players fit our system and our stars.

Trae/Huerter/Hunter/Collins/Capela/Redish/2020 1st is a great future core. Not sure what the coaching situation is. Looking at the east, most teams won't go away (MIL, PHI, IND, TOR, BOS, MIA, BRO) so don't rush things, let them flow. Good luck to y'all and hope to see you guys in the finals in 5 years.


Yes, and John played without starting Center, his real value will be his level of offense/defense once playing with Capela
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Re: John Collins 

Post#144 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:45 pm

Interesting...

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Re: John Collins 

Post#145 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Apr 4, 2020 9:57 pm

Ranking the Top 5 NBA Trade Targets at Every Position This Offseason

Power Forward No. 2: John Collins, Atlanta Hawks

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John Collins seems like a no-doubt keeper for the Atlanta Hawks. They're rebuilding, and he's a 22-year-old who's basically been good for 20 points and 10 boards a night both this season and last.

It sounds like the perfect pairing, until factoring in fit and finances. Collins is an expert rim-runner, but so is newcomer Clint Capela, who's signed for the next three seasons. Collins, meanwhile, needs an extension this offseason or he'll hit restricted free agency in 2021. When he thinks about his next deal, he can hear a cash register's ring.

"I definitely feel like I am in max contract contention," he told The Athletic's Chris Kirschner.

It's Collins' right to feel that way. But it's also Atlanta's right to disagree. Before the Capela deal went down, The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Hawks didn't want to invest "over $20 million annually" in Collins and preferred "a cheaper alternative—such as Capela."

This, folks, is how you pry a blossoming baller away from a long-term rebuilder. Atlanta looks prepared for its post-Collins life, freeing the bouncy big man for the trade market's highest bidder. In addition to the consistent point production and board work, the sweepstakes winner also receives an improved outside shot (59 threes at a 40.1 percent clip) and better rim protection (career-best 1.6 blocks per game).
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Re: John Collins 

Post#146 » by D21 » Mon Apr 6, 2020 7:40 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Ranking the Top 5 NBA Trade Targets at Every Position This Offseason

Power Forward No. 2: John Collins, Atlanta Hawks

Image

John Collins seems like a no-doubt keeper for the Atlanta Hawks. They're rebuilding, and he's a 22-year-old who's basically been good for 20 points and 10 boards a night both this season and last.

It sounds like the perfect pairing, until factoring in fit and finances. Collins is an expert rim-runner, but so is newcomer Clint Capela, who's signed for the next three seasons. Collins, meanwhile, needs an extension this offseason or he'll hit restricted free agency in 2021. When he thinks about his next deal, he can hear a cash register's ring.

"I definitely feel like I am in max contract contention," he told The Athletic's Chris Kirschner.

It's Collins' right to feel that way. But it's also Atlanta's right to disagree. Before the Capela deal went down, The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Hawks didn't want to invest "over $20 million annually" in Collins and preferred "a cheaper alternative—such as Capela."

This, folks, is how you pry a blossoming baller away from a long-term rebuilder. Atlanta looks prepared for its post-Collins life, freeing the bouncy big man for the trade market's highest bidder. In addition to the consistent point production and board work, the sweepstakes winner also receives an improved outside shot (59 threes at a 40.1 percent clip) and better rim protection (career-best 1.6 blocks per game).
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If adding "veteran" guys to get a great team, instead of having in the future two Max players in John and Trae with other guys not great enough to be a contender, was not the first goal, but that the goal was to get Capela replacing John, then we are clearly not building a contender.

Can we have some sense in the middle of "John is a Max player" and "He's not a Max player, he has to leave"
I hope management can explain how to have build a contender, and how giving him 20M/year is not offering 0M/year, like Parker or Gino got with SAS, and I hope John can hear, and understand, and that the difference with the Max would certainly be covered higher sponsors if they win a championship.
It's like we are on the verge to see how it's complicated to build a contender, and how both sides can destroy it.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#147 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Apr 7, 2020 2:07 pm

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Re: John Collins 

Post#148 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:17 pm

The Biggest Salary-Cap Problem Every NBA Team Needs to Solve

Atlanta Hawks

The Atlanta Hawks made moves at the February trade deadline to build around All-Star Trae Young. They'd love to get a look at Clint Capela—who came over injured from the Houston Rockets—before the offseason, but that may not be possible.

The big decision ahead is John Collins' extension availability.

He'll be looking for a lucrative long-term deal likely over $20 million a season
. If Collins can flourish next to Capela and Dewayne Dedmon, he's a talented player worthy of a hefty investment. The challenge is putting that money into a team that has just 20 wins this season. The Hawks may be better off waiting until Collins is a restricted free agent in 2021, which would let them take advantage of his relatively low cap hold ($12.4 million).

Meanwhile, Jeff Teague will be a free agent this summer, as will DeAndre' Bembry (restricted), Skal Labissiere (restricted), Damian Jones (restricted), Treveon Graham and Vince Carter (who may finally retire after a Hall of Fame-caliber career). Brandon Goodwin's minimum contract has only $100,000 guaranteed.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#149 » by HMFFL » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:11 pm

John Collins helps open pop-up grocery stores in Atlanta

Atlanta Hawks forward John Collins is doing his part to help the local community. Collins has partnered with The Goodr Company, State Farm and the Atlanta Hawks Foundation to help fund pop-up grocery stores for those in need.

The initiative will help deliver food and supplies to residents in the metro Atlanta area. It will also help provide necessities to senior citizens at home or senior facilities as well.
There are pop-up grocery stores throughout the city. According to Hawks.com, the grocery stores will be expected to serve more than 300 families with two weeks of groceries. The items include fresh produce, shelf items, meats and vegetables.

https://247sports.com/Article/Atlanta-Hawks-forward-John-Collins-helps-open-pop-up-grocery-stores-in-Atlanta-area--146635293/Amp/

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Re: John Collins 

Post#150 » by Jamaaliver » Wed May 13, 2020 4:07 pm

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Re: John Collins 

Post#151 » by HMFFL » Fri May 15, 2020 3:38 am

John Collins on Hawks: ‘We’re not as far away as you think’

If you find yourself growing impatient with the Hawks’ rebuild, John Collins offered some reassuring words. 
“I want them to know we’re not as far away as you think,” Collins said. 


https://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/not-far-away-you-think-john-collins-talks-hawks-rebuild-his-individual-success/5OuZ9Mj3tPaL1zs7sivyvI/amp.html

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Re: John Collins 

Post#152 » by CP War Hawks » Fri May 15, 2020 4:29 pm

I'd love keep Collins long term but he's being semi incessant about his contract. I'm assuming he wants 100 million minimum. I guess this is where Toppin and Okongwu enter the conversation in the draft just in case.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#153 » by kg01 » Fri May 15, 2020 4:41 pm

CP War Hawks wrote:I'd love keep Collins long term but he's being semi incessant about his contract. I'm assuming he wants 100 million minimum. I guess this is where Toppin and Okongwu enter the conversation in the draft just in case.


You're not wrong, in theory. But we have to pay somebody eventually. Why not pay the guy you've developed?

None of these rookies is gonna step in and be as productive as Collins. They're certainly not going to help us win - I'm assuming we'll start to see Collins do that as we improve the overall talent on the roster this offseason.

Punting Collins to start over with a rookie basically assures whatever progress we've made is negated. It also ensures whatever progress we're trying to make in attracting free agents (FWIW) is surely dashed as it sends a message that we won't even pay our own guys.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#154 » by jayu70 » Fri May 15, 2020 5:13 pm

kg01 wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:I'd love keep Collins long term but he's being semi incessant about his contract. I'm assuming he wants 100 million minimum. I guess this is where Toppin and Okongwu enter the conversation in the draft just in case.


You're not wrong, in theory. But we have to pay somebody eventually. Why not pay the guy you've developed?

None of these rookies is gonna step in and be as productive as Collins. They're certainly not going to help us win - I'm assuming we'll start to see Collins do that as we improve the overall talent on the roster this offseason.

Punting Collins to start over with a rookie basically assures whatever progress we've made is negated. It also ensures whatever progress we're trying to make in attracting free agents (FWIW) is surely dashed as it sends a message that we won't even pay our own guys.

Agreed. What is he really supposed to say though? He's putting up 20/10 in his 3rd season on elite efficiency with a 3pt shot added to his offensive repertoire. Yes his defense lags behind but that has also improved every year. And he gets it, just because you ask, doesn't nean you'll get.
“When we’re talking max numbers and money, I feel like I definitely (am in) the conversation to have earned that money with the Hawks specifically, but obviously I know there’s business and we don’t always get exactly what we want,” Collins said. “But I want to be a Hawk, I want to stay with the Hawks.”
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Re: John Collins 

Post#155 » by CP War Hawks » Fri May 15, 2020 6:08 pm

kg01 wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:I'd love keep Collins long term but he's being semi incessant about his contract. I'm assuming he wants 100 million minimum. I guess this is where Toppin and Okongwu enter the conversation in the draft just in case.


You're not wrong, in theory. But we have to pay somebody eventually. Why not pay the guy you've developed?

None of these rookies is gonna step in and be as productive as Collins. They're certainly not going to help us win - I'm assuming we'll start to see Collins do that as we improve the overall talent on the roster this offseason.

Punting Collins to start over with a rookie basically assures whatever progress we've made is negated. It also ensures whatever progress we're trying to make in attracting free agents (FWIW) is surely dashed as it sends a message that we won't even pay our own guys.


I'm assuming you feel we'd just let him go scott free like they did with Horford. It's only two things that can happen really: overpay to keep him or get great returns that make sense. There is no one player bigger than the team unless you are a transcending superstar.

I'd like to keep Collins for the next 10 seasons, but even with his great half season, the team was still playing at best .500 ball. John will have to duplicate his previous production for next season and he will have all the bargaining chips come next summer or late fall depending on how the NBA will reconstruct future seasons.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#156 » by kg01 » Fri May 15, 2020 6:56 pm

CP War Hawks wrote:
kg01 wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:I'd love keep Collins long term but he's being semi incessant about his contract. I'm assuming he wants 100 million minimum. I guess this is where Toppin and Okongwu enter the conversation in the draft just in case.


You're not wrong, in theory. But we have to pay somebody eventually. Why not pay the guy you've developed?

None of these rookies is gonna step in and be as productive as Collins. They're certainly not going to help us win - I'm assuming we'll start to see Collins do that as we improve the overall talent on the roster this offseason.

Punting Collins to start over with a rookie basically assures whatever progress we've made is negated. It also ensures whatever progress we're trying to make in attracting free agents (FWIW) is surely dashed as it sends a message that we won't even pay our own guys.


I'm assuming you feel we'd just let him go scott free like they did with Horford. It's only two things that can happen really: overpay to keep him or get great returns that make sense. There is no one player bigger than the team unless you are a transcending superstar.

I'd like to keep Collins for the next 10 seasons, but even with his great half season, the team was still playing at best .500 ball. John will have to duplicate his previous production for next season and he will have all the bargaining chips come next summer or late fall depending on how the NBA will reconstruct future seasons.


Nobody's trading a great return for a guy needing to get paid. So the options are more like pay him (you may not need to overpay considering the market) or trade him for as good a deal you can get which won't be great.

And plugging in a rookie to just start the cycle all over again likely pushes Trae to another team. That's the other potential "cost" on failing to pay Collins.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Collins is a 1st team all-NBA guy. I'm just saying this is part of the 'game'.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#157 » by atlantabbq99 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:36 am

I'm not saying we should trade Collins, but I would float his name around on draft night.

If the Hawks can draft Edwards and then trade Collins for a draft pick and get a guy like Jalen Smith, Wiseman, Okongwu, Oturu, or Toppin, then I might say 'yes'.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#158 » by Ball4life32 » Sat May 16, 2020 12:26 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:I'm not saying we should trade Collins, but I would float his name around on draft night.

If the Hawks can draft Edwards and then trade Collins for a draft pick and get a guy like Jalen Smith, Wiseman, Okongwu, Oturu, or Toppin, then I might say 'yes'.

I would 100% keep Collins then. Collins significantly worth more than any of those guys & I like Wiseman.

And two rookies starting or playing 25+ mins again for the 3rd year in a row? No thanks. I’d be shocked to see him traded for pick(s).
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Re: John Collins 

Post#159 » by atlantabbq99 » Sat May 16, 2020 1:11 pm

Ball4life32 wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:I'm not saying we should trade Collins, but I would float his name around on draft night.

If the Hawks can draft Edwards and then trade Collins for a draft pick and get a guy like Jalen Smith, Wiseman, Okongwu, Oturu, or Toppin, then I might say 'yes'.

I would 100% keep Collins then. Collins significantly worth more than any of those guys & I like Wiseman.

And two rookies starting or playing 25+ mins again for the 3rd year in a row? No thanks. I’d be shocked to see him traded for pick(s).


eh, giving a max contract is a big deal (their is a reason why the GSW didn't give a big contract to Harrison Barnes)

Collins has great stats, but he doesn't win games. This could be a Joe Johnson situation. So do you give a max to a players who gives you good stats or do you give a max contract to players who can take you and win in the playoffs?

Wiseman, Okongwu, etc may or may not give more than Collins but when you factor in contracts and salary cap, then the value evens out.

It is kind of like do you keep Josh Smith at the trade deadline and keep him for 1 more year, or do you trade him to Milwaukee for a 1st round pick (and draft Giannis come June)?
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Re: John Collins 

Post#160 » by jayu70 » Sat May 16, 2020 1:18 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:I'm not saying we should trade Collins, but I would float his name around on draft night.

If the Hawks can draft Edwards and then trade Collins for a draft pick and get a guy like Jalen Smith, Wiseman, Okongwu, Oturu, or Toppin, then I might say 'yes'.

We are supposed to be trying to make the playoffs next years per Coach Pierce. We saw this team without John Collins this year, adding two rookies in what most term a weak draft isn't going to put us in playoff territory.
I don't want to be those teams that keep forever drafting in the lottery and never progressing out of the rebuild.
I don't want to be like the Magic trading players that end up flourishing elsewhere, see Harris, Tobias and Oladipo, Victor.
Last, Collins is worth more than any 1 player in this draft.

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