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John Collins

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Re: John Collins 

Post#181 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 7, 2020 11:58 pm

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Re: John Collins 

Post#182 » by Spud2nique » Wed Jul 8, 2020 6:32 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
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Brad is known to fart a lot on the golf course but he’s got a point there.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#183 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:55 am

The Atlanta Hawks must make a decision with John Collins

Trade or extension: What should the Hawks do?

After a three-year tank job, the Atlanta Hawks have put together a roster to compete for the NBA playoffs next season. Like with most young rosters, extensions present headaches for General Managers. These extensions give an insight to the direction of the franchise.

First-up is power forward John Collins...the 22-year old is having a monster year. He is averaging career highs in points (21.6), rebounds (10.1), field-goal percentage (58.3), 3-PT percentage (40.1), free throw percentage (80) and blocks (1.6) in 33.2 minutes per game (also career high).

Spoiler:
In his best game of the season, the big man posted 35 points (13-18 shooting, 3-3 from 3PT, 6-9 FT) and 17 rebounds in the Hawks 111-107 win over the Dallas Mavericks.

Read on Twitter

This game showcased a bit of everything from the big man. He has soft hands around the rim, catching lobs and finishes well through contact. He has excellent manoeuvrability and body control, contorting his body mid-air when challenged at rim.

Collins is also an excellent shooter that can stroke it from outside and has an excellent pull-up game from the mid-range. Offensively, he can do it all.

The Rookie Extension

In March of this year, Collins publicly announced he feels he is a max player. With the revised salary cap number for 2020-21 season yet to be released, we will estimate an extension based on this year’s salary cap.

A five-year rookie max extension is worth around $168 million. That is a lot to pay for a one way forward who is making steady strides on the defensive end. All Stars Ben Simmons and Pascal Siakam both received maximum deals while All Star Domantas Sabonis agreed to a four-year, 77-million dollar contract.

The Lithuanian’s extension is more in line with what Collins should be receiving. Sabonis is now an All Star and is posting career high’s across the board. More importantly, the big man is an advanced stats monster with his success translating directly to wins. This is a huge difference with Collins whose numbers are impressive on the surface but appear to not translate directly toward team success.

These reasons make it difficult to justify giving him maximum money. Somewhere in the neighborhood of four-years, 70-80 million is fair given his limitations as a player.

Trade

If Atlanta elect to move on from Collins, he is bound to have suitors across the NBA. He is a prototypical, new-age power forward who can score the rock. Teams that struggle to score the rock like Charlotte, New York and Chicago could be potential suitors. Of those three teams, Chicago is likely to be the most appealing for Atlanta.

The Bulls have an interesting array of talent that could be perfect for Atlanta. Otto Porter, Wendell Carter Jr, Lauri Markkanen and Kris Dunn are four players that would work well with Trae Young. The Hawks would be looking for a stretch four that can play better defense and shoot reasonably well. Markkanen fits that bill and could be had with the number of young players Atlanta has on its roster.

Conclusion

While Collins produces impressive counting statistics, the advanced metrics don’t support a maximum extension. If the Hawks are able to secure the 22-year-old to a deal around the contract suggested earlier in the piece, it gives Atlanta a chance to see what his ceiling is. If he continues to push for a max deal, I would look to trade him before his extension is due. With the NBA continuing to trend toward stretch forwards, there is bound to be a tone of interest.

In my opinion, his fit alongside Trae Young is perfect offensively but the defense is like Swiss cheese. Clint Capela was brought into to solidify the defense but hiding two defensive liabilities is near impossible unless positions two, three and five are all elite.

GM Travis Schlenk will need to make a decision. Do the Atlanta Hawks view him as a key cog or just a one-way forward not worth a max deal?

Only time will tell.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#184 » by Spud2nique » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:12 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
The Atlanta Hawks must make a decision with John Collins

Trade or extension: What should the Hawks do?

After a three-year tank job, the Atlanta Hawks have put together a roster to compete for the NBA playoffs next season. Like with most young rosters, extensions present headaches for General Managers. These extensions give an insight to the direction of the franchise.

First-up is power forward John Collins...the 22-year old is having a monster year. He is averaging career highs in points (21.6), rebounds (10.1), field-goal percentage (58.3), 3-PT percentage (40.1), free throw percentage (80) and blocks (1.6) in 33.2 minutes per game (also career high).

Spoiler:
In his best game of the season, the big man posted 35 points (13-18 shooting, 3-3 from 3PT, 6-9 FT) and 17 rebounds in the Hawks 111-107 win over the Dallas Mavericks.

Read on Twitter

This game showcased a bit of everything from the big man. He has soft hands around the rim, catching lobs and finishes well through contact. He has excellent manoeuvrability and body control, contorting his body mid-air when challenged at rim.

Collins is also an excellent shooter that can stroke it from outside and has an excellent pull-up game from the mid-range. Offensively, he can do it all.

The Rookie Extension

In March of this year, Collins publicly announced he feels he is a max player. With the revised salary cap number for 2020-21 season yet to be released, we will estimate an extension based on this year’s salary cap.

A five-year rookie max extension is worth around $168 million. That is a lot to pay for a one way forward who is making steady strides on the defensive end. All Stars Ben Simmons and Pascal Siakam both received maximum deals while All Star Domantas Sabonis agreed to a four-year, 77-million dollar contract.

The Lithuanian’s extension is more in line with what Collins should be receiving. Sabonis is now an All Star and is posting career high’s across the board. More importantly, the big man is an advanced stats monster with his success translating directly to wins. This is a huge difference with Collins whose numbers are impressive on the surface but appear to not translate directly toward team success.

These reasons make it difficult to justify giving him maximum money. Somewhere in the neighborhood of four-years, 70-80 million is fair given his limitations as a player.

Trade

If Atlanta elect to move on from Collins, he is bound to have suitors across the NBA. He is a prototypical, new-age power forward who can score the rock. Teams that struggle to score the rock like Charlotte, New York and Chicago could be potential suitors. Of those three teams, Chicago is likely to be the most appealing for Atlanta.

The Bulls have an interesting array of talent that could be perfect for Atlanta. Otto Porter, Wendell Carter Jr, Lauri Markkanen and Kris Dunn are four players that would work well with Trae Young. The Hawks would be looking for a stretch four that can play better defense and shoot reasonably well. Markkanen fits that bill and could be had with the number of young players Atlanta has on its roster.

Conclusion

While Collins produces impressive counting statistics, the advanced metrics don’t support a maximum extension. If the Hawks are able to secure the 22-year-old to a deal around the contract suggested earlier in the piece, it gives Atlanta a chance to see what his ceiling is. If he continues to push for a max deal, I would look to trade him before his extension is due. With the NBA continuing to trend toward stretch forwards, there is bound to be a tone of interest.

In my opinion, his fit alongside Trae Young is perfect offensively but the defense is like Swiss cheese. Clint Capela was brought into to solidify the defense but hiding two defensive liabilities is near impossible unless positions two, three and five are all elite.

GM Travis Schlenk will need to make a decision. Do the Atlanta Hawks view him as a key cog or just a one-way forward not worth a max deal?

Only time will tell.
Franchise Sports


If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.
GO HAWKS!!! :thumbsup:
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Re: John Collins 

Post#185 » by Ball4life32 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:26 pm

Robinson can’t play with Capela & Schlenk said he doesn’t want more picks. And that person suggests trading Collins for better defense & then mentions Lauri Markkannen who is worse defensively than Collins & been one the worst defending PF’s in the league lol
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Re: John Collins 

Post#186 » by shakes0 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:34 pm

Pay the man, it's really that simple. 4 years and go as high as $100 million if you have to. He gets better every year and he's already really damn good. We're not going to find a better replacement at the same price so what's the point of not signing him?

My ONLY concern about this is how COVID will affect the NBA economy over the next few years? I would find a way to tie that into the contract, i.e., the contract goes down year by year if the league takes a big hit and the salary cap goes down.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#187 » by Spud2nique » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:34 pm

shakes0 wrote:Pay the man, it's really that simple. 4 years and go as high as $100 million if you have to. He gets better every year and he's already really damn good. We're not going to find a better replacement at the same price so what's the point of not signing him?

My ONLY concern about this is how COVID will affect the NBA economy over the next few years? I would find a way to tie that into the contract, i.e., the contract goes down year by year if the league takes a big hit and the salary cap goes down.



Seriously who are you? You say the exact same things I do in ur posts here as in mine in the other planet. Lol. Pay the man, you learn well. I likes it.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#188 » by jayu70 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:07 pm

Spud2nique wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
The Atlanta Hawks must make a decision with John Collins

Trade or extension: What should the Hawks do?

After a three-year tank job, the Atlanta Hawks have put together a roster to compete for the NBA playoffs next season. Like with most young rosters, extensions present headaches for General Managers. These extensions give an insight to the direction of the franchise.

First-up is power forward John Collins...the 22-year old is having a monster year. He is averaging career highs in points (21.6), rebounds (10.1), field-goal percentage (58.3), 3-PT percentage (40.1), free throw percentage (80) and blocks (1.6) in 33.2 minutes per game (also career high).

Spoiler:
In his best game of the season, the big man posted 35 points (13-18 shooting, 3-3 from 3PT, 6-9 FT) and 17 rebounds in the Hawks 111-107 win over the Dallas Mavericks.

Read on Twitter

This game showcased a bit of everything from the big man. He has soft hands around the rim, catching lobs and finishes well through contact. He has excellent manoeuvrability and body control, contorting his body mid-air when challenged at rim.

Collins is also an excellent shooter that can stroke it from outside and has an excellent pull-up game from the mid-range. Offensively, he can do it all.

The Rookie Extension

In March of this year, Collins publicly announced he feels he is a max player. With the revised salary cap number for 2020-21 season yet to be released, we will estimate an extension based on this year’s salary cap.

A five-year rookie max extension is worth around $168 million. That is a lot to pay for a one way forward who is making steady strides on the defensive end. All Stars Ben Simmons and Pascal Siakam both received maximum deals while All Star Domantas Sabonis agreed to a four-year, 77-million dollar contract.

The Lithuanian’s extension is more in line with what Collins should be receiving. Sabonis is now an All Star and is posting career high’s across the board. More importantly, the big man is an advanced stats monster with his success translating directly to wins. This is a huge difference with Collins whose numbers are impressive on the surface but appear to not translate directly toward team success.

These reasons make it difficult to justify giving him maximum money. Somewhere in the neighborhood of four-years, 70-80 million is fair given his limitations as a player.

Trade

If Atlanta elect to move on from Collins, he is bound to have suitors across the NBA. He is a prototypical, new-age power forward who can score the rock. Teams that struggle to score the rock like Charlotte, New York and Chicago could be potential suitors. Of those three teams, Chicago is likely to be the most appealing for Atlanta.

The Bulls have an interesting array of talent that could be perfect for Atlanta. Otto Porter, Wendell Carter Jr, Lauri Markkanen and Kris Dunn are four players that would work well with Trae Young. The Hawks would be looking for a stretch four that can play better defense and shoot reasonably well. Markkanen fits that bill and could be had with the number of young players Atlanta has on its roster.

Conclusion

While Collins produces impressive counting statistics, the advanced metrics don’t support a maximum extension. If the Hawks are able to secure the 22-year-old to a deal around the contract suggested earlier in the piece, it gives Atlanta a chance to see what his ceiling is. If he continues to push for a max deal, I would look to trade him before his extension is due. With the NBA continuing to trend toward stretch forwards, there is bound to be a tone of interest.

In my opinion, his fit alongside Trae Young is perfect offensively but the defense is like Swiss cheese. Clint Capela was brought into to solidify the defense but hiding two defensive liabilities is near impossible unless positions two, three and five are all elite.

GM Travis Schlenk will need to make a decision. Do the Atlanta Hawks view him as a key cog or just a one-way forward not worth a max deal?

Only time will tell.
Franchise Sports


If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.

As a start, ok.....but in reality I just wouldn't. Nothing in this draft intrigues me enough to move JC if the focus is on the playoffs next season. As Ball4Life pointed out, how do you pair Robinson and Capela. Even if we select Toppin to replace JC, there's still a rookie learning curve, then we have another rookie as well with our own pick.
This would be a step back into rebuilding territory.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#189 » by kg01 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:31 pm

jayu70 wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Franchise Sports


If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.

As a start, ok.....but in reality I just wouldn't. Nothing in this draft intrigues me enough to move JC if the focus is on the playoffs next season. As Ball4Life pointed out, how do you pair Robinson and Capela. Even if we select Toppin to replace JC, there's still a rookie learning curve, then we have another rookie as well with our own pick.
This would be a step back into rebuilding territory.


There's no combination of Knick assets that would even get me to the table on a Collins deal.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#190 » by Spud2nique » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:13 am

kg01 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:
If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.

As a start, ok.....but in reality I just wouldn't. Nothing in this draft intrigues me enough to move JC if the focus is on the playoffs next season. As Ball4Life pointed out, how do you pair Robinson and Capela. Even if we select Toppin to replace JC, there's still a rookie learning curve, then we have another rookie as well with our own pick.
This would be a step back into rebuilding territory.


There's no combination of Knick assets that would even get me to the table on a Collins deal.


Right, ok but see what I did there was set you up to look nice. As you run down the court witcha 2 likes nod ya head at the spudster and acknowledge the assist. Don’t be a new schooler.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#191 » by kg01 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:37 pm

Spud2nique wrote:
kg01 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:As a start, ok.....but in reality I just wouldn't. Nothing in this draft intrigues me enough to move JC if the focus is on the playoffs next season. As Ball4Life pointed out, how do you pair Robinson and Capela. Even if we select Toppin to replace JC, there's still a rookie learning curve, then we have another rookie as well with our own pick.
This would be a step back into rebuilding territory.


There's no combination of Knick assets that would even get me to the table on a Collins deal.


Right, ok but see what I did there was set you up to look nice. As you run down the court witcha 2 likes nod ya head at the spudster and acknowledge the assist. Don’t be a new schooler.


I just pointed at you as we ran back on defense to acknowledge the assist. :lol:
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Re: John Collins 

Post#192 » by Spud2nique » Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:40 pm

kg01 wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:
kg01 wrote:
There's no combination of Knick assets that would even get me to the table on a Collins deal.


Right, ok but see what I did there was set you up to look nice. As you run down the court witcha 2 likes nod ya head at the spudster and acknowledge the assist. Don’t be a new schooler.


I just pointed at you as we ran back on defense to acknowledge the assist. :lol:



Thank you!!!! Is that so hard. Why aren’t people doing this on the courts anymore. Is this something new? :lol:
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Re: John Collins 

Post#193 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:08 am

Windhorst @ ESPN saying with some conviction/certainty that Bam won't be getting extended by MIA so that the Heat has max opportunity to pursue 2021 free agents.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258934/Heat-Unlikely-To-Extend-Bam-Adebayo-To-Preserve-2021-Cap-Space

If Bam isn't, given his cap hold situation and its implications, is it not more likely that JC also won't, given his cap hold?

Seems probable but maybe less certain than MIA simply b/c there's some reasonable chance that Schlenk perceives his best opportunities to maximize talent acquisition and cap space is sooner, not later--though, less that he has exceptional opportunities now, more that he has less competition now in the market place, and a significant cut-back on the cap and tax thresholds may severely limit what he can do next off-season anyhow.

Of the three possibilities--extend, wait and match an RFA offer, or trade--I'm about as uncommitted as one can be, at least for now. I give each a 33.3% chance.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#194 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:35 pm

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The John Collins rookie extension

Collins has been open about saying he deserves a max extension this offseason. The third year forward is certainly deserving of a lucrative contract.

After he served a 25-game suspension, the forward put together career highs for minutes (33.2), field goal percentage (58.3%), 3-point percentage (40.1%), rebounds (10.1) and points (21.6).

But the decision to extend Collins is complicated. So, what should Atlanta do? Treat Collins like a franchise player. Instead of pitching Collins on why he should stay in Atlanta, explain the value of how holding off on a new contract would be beneficial to the team.

In the free-agency presentation, it is critical for Atlanta to show Collins and his representatives a salary-cap breakdown in 2020 and 2021, plus the free-agent targets. Allowing Collins to be part of the process of how the Hawks should be built and not a bystander is critical in building trust between the two sides.

One thing Atlanta cannot afford is to have Collins come to training camp disgruntled because there is a miscommunication about why there is no extension.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#195 » by Worst_to_First » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:26 am

Spud2nique wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
The Atlanta Hawks must make a decision with John Collins

Trade or extension: What should the Hawks do?

After a three-year tank job, the Atlanta Hawks have put together a roster to compete for the NBA playoffs next season. Like with most young rosters, extensions present headaches for General Managers. These extensions give an insight to the direction of the franchise.

First-up is power forward John Collins...the 22-year old is having a monster year. He is averaging career highs in points (21.6), rebounds (10.1), field-goal percentage (58.3), 3-PT percentage (40.1), free throw percentage (80) and blocks (1.6) in 33.2 minutes per game (also career high).

Spoiler:
In his best game of the season, the big man posted 35 points (13-18 shooting, 3-3 from 3PT, 6-9 FT) and 17 rebounds in the Hawks 111-107 win over the Dallas Mavericks.

Read on Twitter

This game showcased a bit of everything from the big man. He has soft hands around the rim, catching lobs and finishes well through contact. He has excellent manoeuvrability and body control, contorting his body mid-air when challenged at rim.

Collins is also an excellent shooter that can stroke it from outside and has an excellent pull-up game from the mid-range. Offensively, he can do it all.

The Rookie Extension

In March of this year, Collins publicly announced he feels he is a max player. With the revised salary cap number for 2020-21 season yet to be released, we will estimate an extension based on this year’s salary cap.

A five-year rookie max extension is worth around $168 million. That is a lot to pay for a one way forward who is making steady strides on the defensive end. All Stars Ben Simmons and Pascal Siakam both received maximum deals while All Star Domantas Sabonis agreed to a four-year, 77-million dollar contract.

The Lithuanian’s extension is more in line with what Collins should be receiving. Sabonis is now an All Star and is posting career high’s across the board. More importantly, the big man is an advanced stats monster with his success translating directly to wins. This is a huge difference with Collins whose numbers are impressive on the surface but appear to not translate directly toward team success.

These reasons make it difficult to justify giving him maximum money. Somewhere in the neighborhood of four-years, 70-80 million is fair given his limitations as a player.

Trade

If Atlanta elect to move on from Collins, he is bound to have suitors across the NBA. He is a prototypical, new-age power forward who can score the rock. Teams that struggle to score the rock like Charlotte, New York and Chicago could be potential suitors. Of those three teams, Chicago is likely to be the most appealing for Atlanta.

The Bulls have an interesting array of talent that could be perfect for Atlanta. Otto Porter, Wendell Carter Jr, Lauri Markkanen and Kris Dunn are four players that would work well with Trae Young. The Hawks would be looking for a stretch four that can play better defense and shoot reasonably well. Markkanen fits that bill and could be had with the number of young players Atlanta has on its roster.

Conclusion

While Collins produces impressive counting statistics, the advanced metrics don’t support a maximum extension. If the Hawks are able to secure the 22-year-old to a deal around the contract suggested earlier in the piece, it gives Atlanta a chance to see what his ceiling is. If he continues to push for a max deal, I would look to trade him before his extension is due. With the NBA continuing to trend toward stretch forwards, there is bound to be a tone of interest.

In my opinion, his fit alongside Trae Young is perfect offensively but the defense is like Swiss cheese. Clint Capela was brought into to solidify the defense but hiding two defensive liabilities is near impossible unless positions two, three and five are all elite.

GM Travis Schlenk will need to make a decision. Do the Atlanta Hawks view him as a key cog or just a one-way forward not worth a max deal?

Only time will tell.
Franchise Sports


If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.


I know we Knicks fans overrate Mitchell Robinson but that is too steep of an asking price for John Collins.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#196 » by HMFFL » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:03 am

If we trade John Collins now I don't see how Trae Young can be confident the team keeps it's young talent(s) going forward. We take steps back by not extending him and making him part of the future.

In a couple of years if we believe it's in the teams best interest to trade him, fine, but noe isn't the time.

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Re: John Collins 

Post#197 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:05 am

Worst_to_First wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.


I know we Knicks fans overrate Mitchell Robinson but that is too steep of an asking price for John Collins.


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Atlanta fans (and the majority of the NBA world) greatly disagree...
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Re: John Collins 

Post#198 » by Worst_to_First » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:23 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:If NY wants to get their hands on JC, starting point is Mitchell Robinson and the pick.


I know we Knicks fans overrate Mitchell Robinson but that is too steep of an asking price for John Collins.


Image


Atlanta fans (and the majority of the NBA world) greatly disagree...


You guys should just keep JC.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#199 » by jayu70 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:46 pm

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Re: John Collins 

Post#200 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:32 am

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