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John Collins

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Re: John Collins 

Post#21 » by macd-gm » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:43 pm

Duff Man wrote:Hi there, Hawksquawk! Collins is becoming quite a force. He's just shy of 20/10 and is just crushing teams. Trae has really helped him elevate his game to another level. It's only going to get better!


Yes but what about Trae missing all those shots. Just kidding! Great duo and Collins is crushing the competition inside. This team is really playing well. We lack good depth and some outside shooting but for year one of a rebuild we're looking pretty sweet. Those concerned that this would be 5-8 years of losing can rest easy.

And honestly i'd rather watch this team play than the teams from the last two years.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#22 » by EazyRoc » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:40 pm

macd-gm wrote:
Duff Man wrote:Hi there, Hawksquawk! Collins is becoming quite a force. He's just shy of 20/10 and is just crushing teams. Trae has really helped him elevate his game to another level. It's only going to get better!


Yes but what about Trae missing all those shots. Just kidding! Great duo and Collins is crushing the competition inside. This team is really playing well. We lack good depth and some outside shooting but for year one of a rebuild we're looking pretty sweet. Those concerned that this would be 5-8 years of losing can rest easy.

And honestly i'd rather watch this team play than the teams from the last two years.

This!! I’ve already watched about as many games as I’ve watched in the last 2 years.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#23 » by hawkmanreturns » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:47 pm

macd-gm wrote:
Duff Man wrote:Hi there, Hawksquawk! Collins is becoming quite a force. He's just shy of 20/10 and is just crushing teams. Trae has really helped him elevate his game to another level. It's only going to get better!


Yes but what about Trae missing all those shots. Just kidding! Great duo and Collins is crushing the competition inside. This team is really playing well. We lack good depth and some outside shooting but for year one of a rebuild we're looking pretty sweet. Those concerned that this would be 5-8 years of losing can rest easy.

And honestly i'd rather watch this team play than the teams from the last two years.

I agree with this. I've always watched every televised game but this season has been the most exciting in a while.
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Re: John Collins I 

Post#24 » by DirtybirdGA » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:13 pm

How long before Collins qualifies to be among the league leaders?
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Re: John Collins I 

Post#25 » by High 5 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:53 pm

DirtybirdGA wrote:How long before Collins qualifies to be among the league leaders?


https://stats.nba.com/help/statminimums/

He has to play in 70% of the games (58/82) for points/rebounds and he has to make 300 FGs for FG%.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#26 » by DirtybirdGA » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:26 pm

Good looking out
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Re: John Collins 

Post#27 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:34 am

Spud2nique wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Now, I have to ask the question that will inevitably lead to bedlam and chaos in this thread -- would J Collins be producing at this level with Luka here instead of Trae?


Good question. Tough question.

I honestly think the numbers would be similar but the ways he would get his buckets would be different. He wouldn’t be operating in the low post as much or be shooting as many 3’s but rather be on the end of more oops due to Doncic’s size adv over Trae. Essentially Collins would be a better version of what DeAndre Jordan has been for Dallas.




The numbers seem to back you up:

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Re: John Collins 

Post#28 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:04 pm

Some not so flattering coverage:

Taking stock of John Collins’ defense and how it impacts the future of the Atlanta Hawks

For now, it’s ugly on that end for Atlanta’s young star

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With the backdrop of knowing that defensive numbers can be flawed and are not as definite as offensive numbers, Atlanta Hawks big man John Collins presents (very) unsightly defensive numbers at this stage

His 0.7 percent block rate and 0.4 percent steal rate are among the worst for big men in the league. His DRPM ranks No. 91 out of 92 eligible power forwards this year, only ahead of rookie Marvin Bagley in Sacramento. His DPIPM, which adjusts for luck-based factors in a way that RPM doesn’t, paints a very similar picture – Collins ranks out as the second-worst power forward in the league in that measurement as well.

From a team perspective, the Hawks give up a whopping 114 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the floor and a significant reason his on/off numbers look somewhat rosy is that his backups at the power forward position are Omari Spellman and Vince Carter. Once those on/off numbers are adjusted, as they are in RPM and PIPM, the truth behind Collins’ defense rises to the forefront. All told, the Hawks might have the worst power forward rotation in the league on the defensive end of the floor.

Comparing Collins to power forwards is apt because that’s precisely what he’s been for Atlanta in his career to this point. He’s played about 10 percent of his minutes at center this year and the Hawks have gotten absolutely run out off the floor when he does so, to the tune of a 123.8 defensive rating.

For the moment, Collins plays power forward in part because he’s not good enough defensively to play the most important defensive position on the floor, which puts some limits on what the Hawks can do from a team-building and lineup construction perspective.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#29 » by peoriabird » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:09 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Some not so flattering coverage:

Taking stock of John Collins’ defense and how it impacts the future of the Atlanta Hawks

For now, it’s ugly on that end for Atlanta’s young star

Image

With the backdrop of knowing that defensive numbers can be flawed and are not as definite as offensive numbers, Atlanta Hawks big man John Collins presents (very) unsightly defensive numbers at this stage

His 0.7 percent block rate and 0.4 percent steal rate are among the worst for big men in the league. His DRPM ranks No. 91 out of 92 eligible power forwards this year, only ahead of rookie Marvin Bagley in Sacramento. His DPIPM, which adjusts for luck-based factors in a way that RPM doesn’t, paints a very similar picture – Collins ranks out as the second-worst power forward in the league in that measurement as well.

From a team perspective, the Hawks give up a whopping 114 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the floor and a significant reason his on/off numbers look somewhat rosy is that his backups at the power forward position are Omari Spellman and Vince Carter. Once those on/off numbers are adjusted, as they are in RPM and PIPM, the truth behind Collins’ defense rises to the forefront. All told, the Hawks might have the worst power forward rotation in the league on the defensive end of the floor.

Comparing Collins to power forwards is apt because that’s precisely what he’s been for Atlanta in his career to this point. He’s played about 10 percent of his minutes at center this year and the Hawks have gotten absolutely run out off the floor when he does so, to the tune of a 123.8 defensive rating.


For the moment, Collins plays power forward in part because he’s not good enough defensively to play the most important defensive position on the floor, which puts some limits on what the Hawks can do from a team-building and lineup construction perspective.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#30 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:26 pm

And related to today's subject, another article from Peachtree Hoops:

The evaluation this season seems to indicate that Collins would well be served [in the future] playing next to a center with plus size, at least average mobility, some projection to develop good ball skills and a reliable rim protector and defensive rebounder.

If the vision is to see Collins serve as the starting power forward on a Hawks team that projects to possibly achieve contender status he will need to play next to a center that is an All-NBA defender, if not a perennial Defensive Player of the Year candidate. His lack of length just results in a sizable enough gap that his future frontcourt mate will need to be that good.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#31 » by observer1995 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:52 pm

The funny thing is when you look in the comments section, some think this would be solved with a rim protector that is a Mitchell Robinson type. Uh, that's not the case. He needs a guy that can defend in space well so he doesn't have to try to do it. Because his lateral movement isn't good, he's better off acting as the paint protector.

Since I don't see Kaba as a guy to develop into that, I'd like to grab a young big to develop into that. As much as I hate him, we might have to get over ourselves and look to bringing Horford back temporarily.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#32 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:17 am

What a weird way to indicate he's avg 20/10 during that span:

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Re: John Collins 

Post#33 » by graymule » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:09 pm

:oops:

If any one wants to know how terrible JC is, just read these posts. Makes you wonder if Atlanta wasted
their #18 draft pick, doesn't it.. I wonder, would any team that drafted before #18 take him in a redo?

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Re: John Collins 

Post#34 » by benhillboy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:44 pm

Nothing new to me, I’ve always known his defensive motor and length would haunt him. Much like Blake Griffin he’ll learn better positioning and leverage over time. The article didn’t mention Dedmon who helps John a great deal (3.3 points better defensive box). A great defensive Big is in order for the future and John will be okay beasting the other end.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#35 » by IheartTHEhurt » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:57 pm

Ice Trae wrote:I didn't get to watch Malone but from all the players i've watched, he really reminds me of Amare Stoudemire.


Shawn Kemp.. There I said it
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Re: John Collins 

Post#36 » by High 5 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:07 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:What a weird way to indicate he's avg 20/10 during that span:

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Those are actually his last 4 games. So 25/13. But I noticed his 33/20 game was officially changed to 33/19. :noway: I guess we gotta wait a little bit longer for that elusive 30/20.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#37 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 am

A little bit of propaganda for our boy.

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Re: John Collins 

Post#38 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:57 pm

Zach Lowe wrote:Ten things I like and don't like -- 3/22

The derring-do of John Collins

Collins is athletic and crafty enough to turn nothing into something around the rim -- a handy skill at the end of the shot clock. He's good at catching lobs from Trae Young, twisting in midair, and flipping the ball in.

Collins is shooting 74 percent in the restricted area, and it sometimes looks as if he's flinging stuff up blind from awkward angles. He's great fun to watch.

Young and Collins already have a nice chemistry, and it should deepen as Collins grows more comfortable pick-and-popping for 3s; he's shooting 36 percent from deep, and only about one-third of his attempts have come from the corners -- a crazy transformation from last season, when he launched almost exclusively from there. Both Young's and Collins' shooting percentages crater when each plays without the other.

The Hawks are almost dead even for the season with Collins on the floor, remarkable considering they are minus-447 overall. They have outscored opponents when Collins plays without Young, mostly due to unsustainable defense. (Those touting Young for Rookie of the Year should not look up Atlanta's stats in the opposite scenario.)

Collins can get a little thirsty for points. As he improves his passing, he is going to be an absolute stud on offense. The other end will determine his ceiling.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#39 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:19 pm

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The Hawks aren’t putting any limits on what John Collins can be

The second-year big man is going to do a bit of everything for Atlanta

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“It’s still being processed,” Hawks head coach Lloyd Pierce told Peachtree Hoops. “The beauty of it is (that John)’s shown one tremendous area of growth. He goes from 72 percent of his shots being at the rim last year and now he’s a 38 percent three-point shooter, just like that. I think that just opened up a new door for him, whether he’s a 5 or a stretch 4. He’s never been called a stretch 4 before and now he’s a stretch 4, in addition to being a power forward because of his ability in pick-and-roll.”

“I think the growth for me in watching him and seeing how our game is played is ‘can he facilitate?’” Pierce said of Collins. “When you have a guy that’s that athletic, that’s that talented and picks up things pretty easily at the age of 21, you’re curious whether or not he can bring the ball up and be a James Johnson, who plays point forward for Miami a lot of times in DHOs and isos and things of that nature. Increase his ball handling, put him in positions where we can open up the floor and let him be an athlete.”

Pierce hasn’t yet experimented with putting the ball in Collins’ hands to create in pick-and-roll, but he’s clearly conscious of where he wants his young big man to improve.

Should his long-term role be the do-it-all forward he aspires to be, [certain] areas of his game will have to be cleaned up, but there’s still plenty of time for that over the next several years. It’s exceedingly rare that a player of his size and previous pedigree as a big man would be able to add ball handling and advanced play-making to his game in his first few years in the league.

Bumping him up a position would speed up the process of making him an above-average play-maker. Against centers, he’s simply too quick and too athletic for them to handle on the perimeter.

He’s drawn a fair bit of criticism for his defensive play this season, it has to be noted that he’s been better in [recent] weeks. The plays that were begging for a rotation and vertical rim protection are creeping their way into his game as his recognition improves.

Recent defensive developments point to him being more of a power forward in the future, as he’s become more adept at rotating as a weak-side rim protector. That spot also makes life easier on him physically, as he doesn’t have to bang with opposing centers in the post or on the glass and can use his explosive leaping ability to rotate and erase shots at the basket.

Collins has the inside track to play a massive part in the next great Hawks team, and if he’s able to round out his offensive game into the jack-of-all-trades big man they clearly think he can become -- plus add enough on the defensive side -- there’s no telling how high he and his teammates can soar.
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Re: John Collins 

Post#40 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:17 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:^While having a three point shot is useful for any player in today's game, I'm not in favor of Collins focusing too much time out on the perimeter. I'd prefer to see him extend his jumper out to 18 feet with a consistent mid-range game. And then refine his face up game to take larger/slower defenders off the dribble and punish close outs from the elbow.
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