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How do the Hawks get better defensively?

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What needs to happen to fix the defense?

Better Effort
2
11%
Better Coaching
2
11%
Better Players
15
79%
 
Total votes: 19

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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#21 » by jayu70 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 pm

The Minutes per game are misleading especially since he played off the bench for most of the season against other bench players.
His minutes jumped after the trade and he atarted for the last 20 or so games.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#22 » by graymule » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:37 pm

8-)

Collins had to learn how to play defense in the NBA without fouling. He's not there yet, but he's learning.
I expect our players to slowly improve their defense before next season begins. Young players and a rookie
head coach all have to learn - - and they will.

:nod:
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#23 » by Geaux_Hawks » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:54 pm

It's a combo of experience and personnel. We're still a very young team under a first time head coach, who is teaching the way he wants the defense to play. When Collins and Trae came into the league, they were never going to lockdown defenders, so that means we need to be adding guys who excel in that area. Prince has the potential. Huerter can be solid also. Adding a center who can erase mistakes would go a long way in helping. This team could really improve a lot by finding a Draymond Green or young Andre Iguodola.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#24 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:03 pm

Wow. That's seriously granting Pierce a pass. We've seen most of the players on the roster play better defense, even Collins, than now. The first-year coach, as much as we might like him as a person, would make sense to be just as suspect as the injection of rookies.

And why hasn't one of us by now gotten off their lazy bum and looked up the stats to see if we're at least progressing from month to month?

Don't look at me. It's baseball season. :)
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#25 » by Nathan2331 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:07 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:Wow. That's seriously granting Pierce a pass. We've seen most of the players on the roster play better defense, even Collins, than now. The first-year coach, as much as we might like him as a person, would make sense to be just as suspect as the injection of rookies.

And why hasn't one of us by now gotten off their lazy bum and looked up the stats to see if we're at least progressing from month to month?

Don't look at me. It's baseball season. :)
We don't have the personnel to play much better defense. I suppose Pierce deserves some criticism with the poor switching our team attempts to do, but I imagine it'll get ironed out with time. The offensive turnovers though our making our defense worse, and with how fast we push the ball, little can be done about that.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#26 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:09 pm

Again.

EVERY player in the rotation who isn't a rookie or who isn't Dedmon played better defense last season (per that metric).
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#27 » by jayu70 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:12 pm

Different system, coach AND personel.
Defensive metrics are a by product of teammates as well.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#28 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:18 pm

I'm not wrong to have said there are three options. Coaching. Or injection of rookies into the rotation. Or some of both.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#29 » by Nathan2331 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:26 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:I'm not wrong to have said there are three options. Coaching. Or injection of rookies into the rotation. Or some of both.
Like I said, we turn the ball over a lot on offense which gives our opponents easier shots. We also switch a lot on defense and don't always do it well. I'd call that a personnel issue. If you want to chalk that up to coaching, I wouldn't necessarily argue against it.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#30 » by observer1995 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:06 am

Honestly given that I don't like Bazemore's defense because of his gambling for steals, the personnel on defense simply isn't that great outside of Bembry and Dedmon, and Bembry has offensive problems.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#31 » by CP War Hawks » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:09 am

Mostly personnel with young players sprinkled in there. Only plus defender off top of my head is Bembry and he's a 20 min. bench piece.

GMS drafted Trae and Hurt for their shooting, passing, and ball handling ability. Any type of defending acumen with them is found money in his eyes.

Easy part is the 3andD sf. So many of those guys in the draft to compliment the team. Center spot is tricky. I do like some free agent bigs that have good interior defense for the team.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#32 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:05 pm

The Hawks have an offensive identity, but defense remains a concern moving forward, especially with Young and Collins being the two most important pieces of the foundation. Neither is good on that end of the floor, and how those two can progress is one of the biggest questions moving into next season.
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When Prince, Collins and Young are all on the floor together, it’s a disaster on defense. They are statistically some of the worst defenders at their positions. At some point, the team will have to address their defensive woes. The team is 3.4 points better when Prince is on the bench on defense. It is 4.6 points better with Young off the floor on defense...

[W]e’ve seen from Collins in his first two seasons that he’s not a good defender and needs considerable growth. Perhaps his future is playing the 5 on offense and the 4 on defense. Defense is too important at the center position, and right now, it’s not a strength of his. The good news is that Pierce, when he was in Philadelphia, helped Joel Embiid become one of the best defensive centers in the league. Pierce will have to work that same magic with Collins’ defensive development.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#33 » by peoriabird » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:39 pm

The city of complainers! Give the team a little time to learn how to play defense together! They will probably need at least a few years to become a cohesive defensive unit.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#34 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:02 pm

^Not really a complaint. (Though would that be unreasonable in a 50 loss season?)

It's a valid concern as we project what this team will be moving forward.

And I'm sure it's something Lloyd and Travis are aware of and working to rectify.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#35 » by peoriabird » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:32 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:^Not really a complaint. (Though would that be unreasonable in a 50 loss season?)

It's a valid concern as we project what this team will be moving forward.

And I'm sure it's something Lloyd and Travis are aware of and working to rectify.

Can we now start to acknowledge that the defense is improving now with the same personnel! And that John Collins and Prince have been better. Even Trae has been putting forth more effort on the defensive end. Hawks fans need to relax and give this team time to gel as an offense and defense instead of constantly changing the parts.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#36 » by Buzzard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:49 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:Collins played 24 min/pg last season. 30 this season.

If the argument is that he's tiring because of all the work, maybe.

But I'd like to think 6 more minutes wouldn't be all that daunting. And besides that, that there would be some natural improvement just because he's not a rookie anymore.

Can't really cut him any slack on those fronts. At least, there shouldn't be any regression all other things being equal.

But again, all other things aren't equal.

And if you're saying "Yeah, probably a lot of both that there's just too much rookie-ness on the court AND on the sideline".... I'm content with that, and/but I share the same question, if anyone wants to take the time to review the stats and answer. Here, it's baseball season, and I'm watching my Nationals on MLB.tv, and just too lazy to go look.

I think you have some valid points but there is always a but...Who was Collins playing against for the bulk of those 24 minutes and we also have Huerter starting over Bazemore. Check Bazemore's stats and you will see in LA when he was coming off the bench his defensive stats where just as bad as they are now.

I do think Bud plays more double teams than Lloyd. I think Lloyd expects Prince, Huerter, and Bazemore to be able to man up more on D. Same for his bigs, This might change over time; but for now I think having to man up more is a great learning experience.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#37 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:57 pm

Man, winning really does cure all....

We're a really bad defensive team. For us to take the next step, it has to be addressed.

To diminish concern over our biggest flaw because we stole a couple of tight games at the end of the season, would be really short sighted.

If we really want to make a run at the playoffs a year from now, defensive improvement is paramount.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#38 » by jayu70 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:10 pm

It's tough to make significant changes this season with 8 games left. With 8 games left here's what can be done
1. Taking care of the ball, so the defense can actually set to play it
2. Effort, effort, effort
3. Focus, focus, focus
4. Talk on defense.
5. Shoot the ball, sometime better offense makes great defense.


The offseason - practice, roster upgrades, kids improvements by their own merit.

Just like the offense has improved throughout this season. I expect this from the defense next season.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#39 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:11 pm

I'm slow to grant new NBA coaches whatever genius reputation they gained while they served as assistants.

Which is why, I'm hoping our head coach, who came to us with the defensive genius rep maybe will take inventory and look for others' input as well, considering if there are some things he could be doing better in terms of his coaching, whether during practice time, or actual in-game.

No one has bothered, unless I missed it, to look at the month to month numbers to see if there are hints that our defense has gotten better. Pardon the observation, but really, there are some of you who obviously spend hours on this site every day... surely you can take a few minutes and look into that.

Having said that, I wouldn't have expected the team to get appreciably better with the injection of a rookie PG who everyone and his brother and his brother's barber's wife's boss knew had no defensive game to speak of, and only meh defensive games from the other two rookies getting any time.

We need better from Trae, for sure. I agree with those who think there's going to be some natural growth. But it's really got to be a focus for him in the off-season.
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Re: How do the Hawks get better defensively? 

Post#40 » by peoriabird » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:02 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Man, winning really does cure all....

We're a really bad defensive team. For us to take the next step, it has to be addressed.

To diminish concern over our biggest flaw because we stole a couple of tight games at the end of the season, would be really short sighted.

If we really want to make a run at the playoffs a year from now, defensive improvement is paramount.

I saw progress in the Philadelphia game. We got big stops down the stretch in both the Utah and Philadelphia games. I don't know what it will take for fans to give the team any credit but obviously some will never be satisfied unless dramatic progress is made.

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