The Athletic: EXCEPTIONAL "roundtable" Hawks article

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Long, interesting read.

In this snipet, the question is, who do you like of Culver, Hunter and Reddish to the Hawks, and I've screenshot two of the four responses...




https://theathletic.com/1000666/2019/05/30/roundtable-discussion-of-the-possibilities-the-hawks-might-explore-on-draft-night/

If you're not a subscriber, they have the one-week free trial thing.

[kg01]

Long, interesting read.

In this snipet, the question is, who do you like of Culver, Hunter and Reddish to the Hawks, and I've screenshot two of the four responses...

That comp to Randy Moss is ridiculous. Moss' on-field talent was never questioned the way Reddish's is.

For Moss, the question was does his excellent play offset the fact that he's got red flags.

For Reddish, the questions is will he ever play well enough to offset the fact that he's got red flags.

Huge difference, imho. You knew what Moss was going to be on the field. You have no idea what Reddish will be.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

I'm a Marshall grad, so you know I think pretty highly of my recall of Randy Moss... who, incidentally, was quite the basketball stand-out as well, along with his high school teammate PG Jason "White Chocolate" Williams.

You're not totally wrong to say what you just said, except that you're not remembering that there were a LOT of critics who believed Randy's frame was not conducive to the NFL game, and that he was either going to be a DNP due to off-the-field activities or DNP due to him being unable to take the repeated hits... at a time, of course, when targeting/headhunting by safeties was not only allowed, but encouraged.

You're also not wrong, imo, to wonder if the team that gets Reddish essentially gets another Marvin Williams clone in terms of production and energy.

I just think we lack *that* guy who is capable of being elite, and we're at a point in the evolution of this team that there is no more decently-plausible shot at obtaining that guy after this off-season.

But I really like the four voices in this article... I think between them all, they capture most all of the ins-and-outs worth discussing.

[tbhawksfan1]

Is Prince as good as they will be after two nba seasons? If we stop thinking that we need to get rid of TP, we might get a wing and a center. If the picked wing is better, then we should be able to re-sign TP reasonably and he is a strong back up.

[Jamaaliver]

Is Prince as good as they will be after two nba seasons? If we stop thinking that we need to get rid of TP, we might get a wing and a center. If the picked wing is better, then we should be able to re-sign TP reasonably and he is a strong back up.

You're assuming T Prince is down with being a backup at age 26.

Or that another team won't lure him away via a bigger contract than we want to match. (See: Hardaway Jr., Tim)

[tbhawksfan1]

That is decided on the court. if he out-plays the pick, good for him. If not, then you decide what you're willing to pay him. In any case, I would hold onto him until the deadline unless something too good comes up during draft. For the moment, I still see him as an on court asset for the Hawks

[tbhawksfan1]

Also happy the Knicks lured THJ away

[Jamaaliver]

That is decided on the court. if he out-plays the pick, good for him. If not, then you decide what you're willing to pay him. In any case, I would hold onto him until the deadline unless something too good comes up during draft. For the moment, I still see him as an on court asset for the Hawks

We've been pretty subpar at trading talent at the trade deadline.

You, more than anyone else here, is aware of that fact.

It's wishful thinking that we could get comparable value for him without having to take back salary in return.

[tbhawksfan1]

That is decided on the court. if he out-plays the pick, good for him. If not, then you decide what you're willing to pay him. In any case, I would hold onto him until the deadline unless something too good comes up during draft. For the moment, I still see him as an on court asset for the Hawks

We've been pretty subpar at trading talent at the trade deadline.

You, more than anyone else here, is aware of that fact.

It's wishful thinking that we could get comparable value for him without having to take back salary in return.

I'm not against trading him. Top 15-20 value, I add a second and get a late lottery. Draft a wing or two and still have Baze and Bembry for experience.

Trading TP for another mid FRP would really allow us to get some nice things. 8:Cam, 10: Sekou, 15:Goga or Kabengele

If we can do that, I'm first in line to move TP

[kg01]

I'm a Marshall grad, so you know I think pretty highly of my recall of Randy Moss... who, incidentally, was quite the basketball stand-out as well, along with his high school teammate PG Jason "White Chocolate" Williams.

You're not totally wrong to say what you just said, except that you're not remembering that there were a LOT of critics who believed Randy's frame was not conducive to the NFL game, and that he was either going to be a DNP due to off-the-field activities or DNP due to him being unable to take the repeated hits... at a time, of course, when targeting/headhunting by safeties was not only allowed, but encouraged.

You're also not wrong, imo, to wonder if the team that gets Reddish essentially gets another Marvin Williams clone in terms of production and energy.

I just think we lack *that* guy who is capable of being elite, and we're at a point in the evolution of this team that there is no more decently-plausible shot at obtaining that guy after this off-season.

But I really like the four voices in this article... I think between them all, they capture most all of the ins-and-outs worth discussing.

I think, if you're counting on Reddish to be "that" guy, it's too much of a dice roll. If he "just" ends up being Terrence Ross or Ben Mclemore, that's a failed pick.

And kudos on the mental gymnastics you just went through to try to find a way to disagree with me on Randy Moss. Just tell me I'm right, stu.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

I'm a Marshall grad, so you know I think pretty highly of my recall of Randy Moss... who, incidentally, was quite the basketball stand-out as well, along with his high school teammate PG Jason "White Chocolate" Williams.

You're not totally wrong to say what you just said, except that you're not remembering that there were a LOT of critics who believed Randy's frame was not conducive to the NFL game, and that he was either going to be a DNP due to off-the-field activities or DNP due to him being unable to take the repeated hits... at a time, of course, when targeting/headhunting by safeties was not only allowed, but encouraged.

You're also not wrong, imo, to wonder if the team that gets Reddish essentially gets another Marvin Williams clone in terms of production and energy.

I just think we lack *that* guy who is capable of being elite, and we're at a point in the evolution of this team that there is no more decently-plausible shot at obtaining that guy after this off-season.

But I really like the four voices in this article... I think between them all, they capture most all of the ins-and-outs worth discussing.

I think, if you're counting on Reddish to be "that" guy, it's too much of a dice roll. If he "just" ends up being Terrence Ross or Ben Mclemore, that's a failed pick.

And kudos on the mental gymnastics you just went through to try to find a way to disagree with me on Randy Moss. Just tell me I'm right, stu.

It's that dice roll or... NO... dice roll.

I'll take the dice roll.

I have to. All other options lead to more hamster wheel.



And you're not big on subtlety are you... hehe... I was trying to be nice.

You're right that everyone saw what a talent Randy could be, and that there were few if any "on-the-field" red flags... but that there were doubters who thought he would get on the field and stay on the field due to concerns about his mentality and his physical frame... still... amounts to red flags.

And in fact, YOUR OWN criticism/red flag regarding Reddish seems to rest mostly with head issues, just based on what I've read today.

[kg01]

I'm a Marshall grad, so you know I think pretty highly of my recall of Randy Moss... who, incidentally, was quite the basketball stand-out as well, along with his high school teammate PG Jason "White Chocolate" Williams.

You're not totally wrong to say what you just said, except that you're not remembering that there were a LOT of critics who believed Randy's frame was not conducive to the NFL game, and that he was either going to be a DNP due to off-the-field activities or DNP due to him being unable to take the repeated hits... at a time, of course, when targeting/headhunting by safeties was not only allowed, but encouraged.

You're also not wrong, imo, to wonder if the team that gets Reddish essentially gets another Marvin Williams clone in terms of production and energy.

I just think we lack *that* guy who is capable of being elite, and we're at a point in the evolution of this team that there is no more decently-plausible shot at obtaining that guy after this off-season.

But I really like the four voices in this article... I think between them all, they capture most all of the ins-and-outs worth discussing.

I think, if you're counting on Reddish to be "that" guy, it's too much of a dice roll. If he "just" ends up being Terrence Ross or Ben Mclemore, that's a failed pick.

And kudos on the mental gymnastics you just went through to try to find a way to disagree with me on Randy Moss. Just tell me I'm right, stu.

It's that dice roll or... NO... dice roll.

I'll take the dice roll.

I have to. All other options lead to more hamster wheel.

And you're not big on subtlety are you... hehe... I was trying to be nice.

You're right that everyone saw what a talent Randy could be, and that there were few if any "on-the-field" red flags... but that there were doubters who thought he would get on the field and stay on the field due to concerns about his mentality and his physical frame... still... amounts to red flags.

And in fact, YOUR OWN criticism/red flag regarding Reddish seems to rest mostly with head issues, just based on what I've read today.

All I heard was, "Yeah, you right, kg."

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

I am sure of that.

[azuresou1]

I still don't know how I feel about Cam Reddish. Aesthetically he looks so goddamn smooth and talented that it's really easy to envision him develop into a Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, less athletic T-Mac/Paul George type player.

I'm also deathly terrified by how poorly he performed and how passively he played, and can see him turning into a Marvin Williams, Harrison Barnes, Andrew Wiggins player who shows up and cashes checks but doesn't actually make his team any better.

I think paradoxically the farther he falls the better he plays.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

I still don't know how I feel about Cam Reddish. Aesthetically he looks so goddamn smooth and talented that it's really easy to envision him develop into a Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, less athletic T-Mac/Paul George type player.

I'm also deathly terrified by how poorly he performed and how passively he played, and can see him turning into a Marvin Williams, Harrison Barnes, Andrew Wiggins player who shows up and cashes checks but doesn't actually make his team any better.

I think paradoxically the farther he falls the better he plays.

That's a great point. We talk about Randy Moss above... some believe that had Randy Moss went in the top 10 to DAL as rumored, he would not have had nearly the chip on his shoulder and drive to succeed.

But Reddish won't fall to #21 like Moss did, of course.

[CP War Hawks]

"I ran a Steph Curry Under Armour camp, and he didn't play. He just hung out for four days and sat out with a minor injury. After 10 minutes working out in Phoenix last week, he "tweaked" something."

He sat out an NCAA game with something minor as well. The guy has no dog in him.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

I've been critical of Reddish. But there is such a thing as over the top.

1. All I know about the tournament game was Krzyzewski evidently was persuaded he was limping too bad to play, and there was never even anyone questioning Coach K's conclusion about it, nor anyone who suggested he probably could have played through it.

2. When you're going from town to town for these work outs, one should especially throw caution to the wind when arriving in a town where there is almost no likelihood that that team is going to select you... that's what I always say.

3. Hopefully CLE and anyone else above us takes so seriously that he sat out of a basketball camp... yes, a camp... that we can be the beneficiaries of that decision.

Watch on YouTube

[jayu70]

"I ran a Steph Curry Under Armour camp, and he didn't play. He just hung out for four days and sat out with a minor injury. After 10 minutes working out in Phoenix last week, he "tweaked" something."

He sat out an NCAA game with something minor as well. The guy has no dog in him.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[CP War Hawks]

"I ran a Steph Curry Under Armour camp, and he didn't play. He just hung out for four days and sat out with a minor injury. After 10 minutes working out in Phoenix last week, he "tweaked" something."

He sat out an NCAA game with something minor as well. The guy has no dog in him.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Minor issue, probably more so than Romeo's thumb issue. He had late March to get taken care of but waits till June to do so... Now we can't see how he workouts until way after the draft

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Minor issue, probably more so than Romeo's thumb issue. He had late March to get taken care of but waits till June to do so... Now we can't see how he workouts until way after the draft

Does this solidify the likelihood that he's there at #8 for us?