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Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3

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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#761 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:08 am

Depends on the deal. Based on what would likely be asked, I'd pass. Simmons is top 25, but he has one of the most broken shots in the NBA.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#762 » by Spud2nique » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:54 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
myrak433 wrote:I like Collins. But if you can get Simmons and still have Trae and Cam you have to pull the trigger


Ben Simmons would immediately become the best player on our team. He's a top-25 player who would mesh perfectly offensively with Trae and D Hunter. It's not even a question.

At some point, we have to consolidate players. Acquiring Ben Simmons in exchange for 2nd and 3rd tier players is the best case scenario.


Trae Young is better than Ben Simmons so no he wouldn’t immediately be the best player on our team.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#763 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:53 am

Spud2nique wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Ben Simmons would immediately become the best player on our team.

Acquiring Ben Simmons in exchange for 2nd and 3rd tier players is the best case scenario.


Trae Young is better than Ben Simmons so no he wouldn’t immediately be the best player on our team.


:lol:

I'm not gonna argue against Trae, but adding Simmons' rebounding, defense, post game and positional versatility would be a huge boon for our team. (If Trae is a better passing Steph Curry, Ben Simmons is a much better scoring Draymond. With Huerter as a better ball handling version of Klay, we'd be set.)
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#764 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:02 pm

Premise: You are Travis Schlenk.

You can trade Tony Snell to Memphis for either Justice Winslow or Gorgui Dieng--self-evidently looking to add another defensive ace to the bench. Assume MEM is willing to do either... and fwiw, MEM bloggers I've read seem to be especially "meh" on keeping either, so I take it that that's not a stretch to assume... here are links to one example...

https://hoopshabit.com/2020/10/18/memphis-grizzlies-5-roster-moves-they-must-make-this-offseason/2/
https://hoopshabit.com/2020/10/18/memphis-grizzlies-5-roster-moves-they-must-make-this-offseason/5/

Or you can pass, of course.

Snell's primary appeal? His consistent 40% 3PG contribution.

His primary drawback... contrary to the recent chatter about his defense actually being decent... is that he's been the worst defender or next-to-worst defender on his team for each of the last 3 seasons (ie, looking at where he has stood in relation to the team's defensive rating, he has been the one at the far end pulling that average down).

And doing a little more research reveals that over the extent of Snell's career, he's never been less than 3 points worse off than his team's average (ie, he's not always been at the far end, but he's consistently been on the wrong end).

Intrigued, I looked at his numbers in 82games. They're consistent with all that. I'm not sure where the contentment with his defense is coming from--defensive numbers certainly don't say everything, but they say enough that when they're that consistently negative, there's reason for that.

Winslow's salary is practically the same as Snell's, and there's a team option for next season at the same price ($13m). Dieng is $17m, so MEM would be shedding about $5m off their spreadsheet.

Analyzing all the pros and cons, what's your preference?

On this side of the internet, me, I feel this roster is stocked sufficiently with offensive options, and I feel this roster begs for some stronger defensive assets.

Sure, probably like you the person reading this, I hold out strong hopes that we find both Reddish and Hunter's sophomore season defense fulfills the promise many of us saw in them coming out of last year's draft, but if I have a choice between a 40% 3PG shooter and a high-regard wing defender, I'm feeling wiser to choose the latter, ie, Winslow.

The reason not to? Mainly that he's proven to be so injury-prone.

Dieng also would be a high quality addition, no doubt, and I'm a broken record that as a rule I don't like relying on a rookie to be a defensive stopper from the word "go"... so, that shoe fits King Kong. (Hunter, remember, was lauded as arguably the best pound-for-pound defender coming out of last year's draft, but it goes without saying that there's most typically a learning curve that has to be anticipated.)

The reason not to? Mainly that Vonleh and Henson aren't chopped liver, and right now can be had on the open market seemingly for the price of the vet minimum and the price of swallowing Goodwin's contract.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#765 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:45 pm

I know I'm in the minoroty, but I'd jump at the chance to bring in Justise Winslow. He's a better defender than anyone not named Cam on our team...and he has some solid point forward skills which could allow us to use him at backup PF ala Draymond Green.

Tony Snell is a useful rotation player, but has no long term bearing on the future of this team.

Spoiler:
Throughout Justise Winslow’s career, he’s carried the same reputation as the young Kawhi: advanced defensively, but underdeveloped on the other end. Winslow has filled in at the 1 spot sporadically this season (2018-2019) for the Heat, most recently for the last five games in place of Goran Dragic. During that stretch, Miami was undefeated.

Miami scored 109 points per 100 possessions through that 5-1 stretch, which is a better figure (albeit in a smaller sample size) than Dragic’s time at the one, and much better than with any of the other Dragic backups.

Meanwhile, Winslow’s individual scoring [was] at a career best. In December 2018, he averaged 14.4 points on 49.2 percent shooting overall and 45.3 percent from the perimeter.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#766 » by jayu70 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:49 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:I know I'm in the minoroty, but I'd jump at the chance to bring in Justise Winslow. He's a better defender than anyone not named Cam on our team...and he has some solid point forward skills which could allow us to use him at backup PF ala Draymond Green.

Tony Snell is a useful rotation player, but has no long term bearing on the future of this team.

Spoiler:
Throughout Justise Winslow’s career, he’s carried the same reputation as the young Kawhi: advanced defensively, but underdeveloped on the other end. Winslow has filled in at the 1 spot sporadically this season (2018-2019) for the Heat, most recently for the last five games in place of Goran Dragic. During that stretch, Miami was undefeated.

Miami scored 109 points per 100 possessions through that 5-1 stretch, which is a better figure (albeit in a smaller sample size) than Dragic’s time at the one, and much better than with any of the other Dragic backups.

Meanwhile, Winslow’s individual scoring [was] at a career best. In December 2018, he averaged 14.4 points on 49.2 percent shooting overall and 45.3 percent from the perimeter.

He has the perfect contract to trade for at the moment. Team Option for next season. He has to show he can get and stay healthy though. That back has been an issue. Same contract as Snell.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#767 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:11 pm

MEM fans shot down the Winslow thing pretty effectively, but seemingly there's some appetite for a Dieng for Snell deal...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2030307

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2029992

For me, my vote would depend on Hawks' doctors' and scouts' assessment of Andre Roberson.

He's still just 29, and the reviews of his bubble appearances seemed to give reason for some optimism that he's practically all the way back now from his injury.

Subtract Snell, add Dieng.

Subtract Goodwin, add Roberson.

Dang, you put Dunn, Roberson and Dieng on the court with a 10-point lead in the last few minutes of a game, that might have an effect reminiscent of running Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman and Craig Kimbrel out there, eh? :D
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#768 » by tbhawksfan1 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:40 pm

Thinking about KAT after Jamaal's KAT thread bump and although I've been very trade resistant, I'm thinking about landing KAT and Simmons.

Would JC / Capela / Bogdan / Snell / Bruno and FRP(s) get in the ballpark? Add Heurter?

KAT / OO
Simmons / Gallo
Hunter / Heurter
Cam / Dunn
Trae / Rajon

Got me crazy thinking :lol:
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#769 » by Spud2nique » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:01 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Thinking about KAT after Jamaal's KAT thread bump and although I've been very trade resistant, I'm thinking about landing KAT and Simmons.

Would JC / Capela / Bogdan / Snell / Bruno and FRP(s) get in the ballpark? Add Heurter?

KAT / OO
Simmons / Gallo
Hunter / Heurter
Cam / Dunn
Trae / Rajon

Got me crazy thinking :lol:


Remain calm. The regular season has not yet begun.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#770 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:36 pm

2021 NBA Trade Deadline Deals to Dream About

Atlanta Goes for It with Gobert

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According to Porter Larsen of ESPN 700 in Salt Lake City, Rudy Gobert and the Utah Jazz are a ways apart on extension talks. The supermax, which Gobert wants, can't be offered after the season starts. So with the clock ticking, it's possible the two-time Defensive Player of the Year will enter the 2020-21 season on an expiring contract, putting the Jazz to a decision.

Do they ride it out and risk losing Gobert for nothing in unrestricted free agency, or do they get what they can for him in a trade?

The Atlanta Hawks spent to add scoring this past offseason, but they might decide Clint Capela can't create a top-end defense on his own. Gobert has proved he can.

The deal wouldn't necessarily need to involve Capela on Utah's end as the Jazz have Derrick Favors back for the mid-level exception. That move may well have been insurance for just this situation. But the Hawks would insist on including Capela, and he'd be key to making the money work.

Atlanta could include Kevin Huerter, De'Andre Hunter or Cam Reddish and possibly rookie Onyeka Okongwu. That might not seem like much, but remember the Hawks would be adding an unrestricted free agent in this scenario. You'd assume no deal would get done without an understanding that Atlanta was going to extend Gobert at a pay rate he'd like, but for negotiating purposes, Utah might not be in a position to ask for a monster return.

What will help Utah gin up interest is the breadth of teams that might come calling about Gobert.

Depending on how the start of the season goes for them, the Boston Celtics, Dallas Mavericks, Brooklyn Nets and others could have interest. With the 2021 free-agent class losing luster by the day, many teams might decide they'd rather add Gobert and re-sign him than worry about who they might add on the open market next summer.

With Gobert in Atlanta, Trae Young would have the ultimate eraser behind him, plus a useful pick-and-roll weapon on offense. It's an oversimplification, but if it's clear at the deadline that the problem with the Hawks is defense, Gobert would be the most effective solution.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#771 » by Spud2nique » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:00 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
2021 NBA Trade Deadline Deals to Dream About

Atlanta Goes for It with Gobert

Image

According to Porter Larsen of ESPN 700 in Salt Lake City, Rudy Gobert and the Utah Jazz are a ways apart on extension talks. The supermax, which Gobert wants, can't be offered after the season starts. So with the clock ticking, it's possible the two-time Defensive Player of the Year will enter the 2020-21 season on an expiring contract, putting the Jazz to a decision.

Do they ride it out and risk losing Gobert for nothing in unrestricted free agency, or do they get what they can for him in a trade?

The Atlanta Hawks spent to add scoring this past offseason, but they might decide Clint Capela can't create a top-end defense on his own. Gobert has proved he can.

The deal wouldn't necessarily need to involve Capela on Utah's end as the Jazz have Derrick Favors back for the mid-level exception. That move may well have been insurance for just this situation. But the Hawks would insist on including Capela, and he'd be key to making the money work.

Atlanta could include Kevin Huerter, De'Andre Hunter or Cam Reddish and possibly rookie Onyeka Okongwu. That might not seem like much, but remember the Hawks would be adding an unrestricted free agent in this scenario. You'd assume no deal would get done without an understanding that Atlanta was going to extend Gobert at a pay rate he'd like, but for negotiating purposes, Utah might not be in a position to ask for a monster return.

What will help Utah gin up interest is the breadth of teams that might come calling about Gobert.

Depending on how the start of the season goes for them, the Boston Celtics, Dallas Mavericks, Brooklyn Nets and others could have interest. With the 2021 free-agent class losing luster by the day, many teams might decide they'd rather add Gobert and re-sign him than worry about who they might add on the open market next summer.

With Gobert in Atlanta, Trae Young would have the ultimate eraser behind him, plus a useful pick-and-roll weapon on offense. It's an oversimplification, but if it's clear at the deadline that the problem with the Hawks is defense, Gobert would be the most effective solution.
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Grant Hughes of bleacher report copied me. I had a nice Gobert deal.

Let me make it very clear though. It should NOT include Cam or Onyeka.

By the way, bleacher report is a sucka motha fcka.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#772 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:19 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:MEM fans shot down the Winslow thing pretty effectively, but seemingly there's some appetite for a Dieng for Snell deal...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2030307

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2029992

For me, my vote would depend on Hawks' doctors' and scouts' assessment of Andre Roberson.

He's still just 29, and the reviews of his bubble appearances seemed to give reason for some optimism that he's practically all the way back now from his injury.

Subtract Snell, add Dieng.

Subtract Goodwin, add Roberson.

Dang, you put Dunn, Roberson and Dieng on the court with a 10-point lead in the last few minutes of a game, that might have an effect reminiscent of running Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman and Craig Kimbrel out there, eh? :D


Probably should start by saying the sentence immediately above was a half-kidding overstatement. Dunn is the one of the three who currently could be considered "elite." Roberson, at one time, was elite, but as stated, we just don't know if he can return to that--and truth is, if there was more confidence that he would/could, he likely would have been signed by some team already. Dieng has never been widely regarded in that highest tier of defensive assets, but from year-to-year, he's always been considered "good," and at times "very good."

That said, news just broke that RHJ was waived after all by MIN in spite of a whole lot of positive press about him in Twin Cities media the last week, quoting HC Saunders praising RHJ's energy.

So, count me now as an advocate for one of two moves assuming we're confident that Rondo is 100% as we await Dunn's return:

(a) Trade Snell straight-up for Dieng, and sign RHJ with the open roster slot from having let the 4th PG walk

or

(b) Keep Snell, but sign Vonleh with the open roster slot from having let the 4th PG walk.

Prefer "a" because I just think this team would benefit from rebalancing the roster so that the weaponry includes more high-regard defensive assets to go along with all the offense we added.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#773 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:20 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:MEM fans shot down the Winslow thing pretty effectively, but seemingly there's some appetite for a Dieng for Snell deal...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2030307

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2029992

For me, my vote would depend on Hawks' doctors' and scouts' assessment of Andre Roberson.

He's still just 29, and the reviews of his bubble appearances seemed to give reason for some optimism that he's practically all the way back now from his injury.

Subtract Snell, add Dieng.

Subtract Goodwin, add Roberson.

Dang, you put Dunn, Roberson and Dieng on the court with a 10-point lead in the last few minutes of a game, that might have an effect reminiscent of running Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman and Craig Kimbrel out there, eh? :D


Probably should start by saying the sentence immediately above was a half-kidding overstatement. Dunn is the one of the three who currently could be considered "elite." Roberson, at one time, was elite, but as stated, we just don't know if he can return to that--and truth is, if there was more confidence that he would/could, he likely would have been signed by some team already. Dieng has never been widely regarded in that highest tier of defensive assets, but from year-to-year, he's always been considered "good," and at times "very good."

That said, news just broke that RHJ was waived after all by MIN in spite of a whole lot of positive press about him in Twin Cities media the last week, quoting HC Saunders praising RHJ's energy.

So, count me now as an advocate for one of two moves assuming we're confident that Rondo is 100% as we await Dunn's return:

(a) Trade Snell straight-up for Dieng, and sign RHJ with the open roster slot from having let the 4th PG walk

or

(b) Keep Snell, but sign Vonleh... or Henson would be okay, too... with the open roster slot from having let the 4th PG walk.

Prefer "a" because I just think this team would benefit from rebalancing the roster so that the weaponry includes more high-regard defensive assets to go along with all the offense we added.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#774 » by saloonyk8 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:49 pm

Hawks get Ben Simmons

Sixers get Harden

Rockets get Collins, Capella, Huerter, Thybulle, OKC FRP, Atl FRP, Philly 2 FRP

These salaries work with cap numbers according to trade machine. Believe me I didn't want to include Capela.... But who says no? The Rockets? What they gonna get better than this? Hawks really only giving one pick because thunder pick is probably seconds.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#775 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:55 pm

saloonyk8 wrote:Hawks get Ben Simmons

Sixers get Harden

Rockets get Collins, Capella, Huerter, Thybulle, OKC FRP, Atl FRP, Philly 2 FRP

These salaries work with cap numbers according to trade machine. Believe me I didn't want to include Capela.... But who says no? The Rockets? What they gonna get better than this? Hawks really only giving one pick because thunder pick is probably seconds.



I'd want more in compensation for what we're giving up. But this is indeed the makings of a really solid deal.

Send us Thybulle and Seth Curry along with Ben Simmons and we'd be on to something.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#776 » by saloonyk8 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:59 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
saloonyk8 wrote:Hawks get Ben Simmons

Sixers get Harden

Rockets get Collins, Capella, Huerter, Thybulle, OKC FRP, Atl FRP, Philly 2 FRP

These salaries work with cap numbers according to trade machine. Believe me I didn't want to include Capela.... But who says no? The Rockets? What they gonna get better than this? Hawks really only giving one pick because thunder pick is probably seconds.



I'd want more in compensation for what we're giving up. But this is indeed the makings of a really solid deal.

Send us Thybulle and Seth Curry along with Ben Simmons and we'd be on to something.


It's too hard to make the numbers work before FA we just signed are trade eligible. I'm assuming Harden moves very soon which really limits how wet can match up salaries.

And I'm not sure it's a good look to sign Gallo or Rondo immediately when they're eligible but that would allow some flexibility.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#777 » by Spud2nique » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:28 pm

My hand made me. I love JC still...

Hawks out: John Collins + Bruno Fernando
Hawks in: Marvin Bagley

Sac out: Marvin Bagley
Sac in: John Collins+Bruno Fernando


Why for Atlanta: They find a pf replacement for Collins since he did not sign long term and couldn’t get a deal from the Hawks. Bagley has a 14.7 mill qualifying offer for 2021-22 thus allowing the Hawks another year of holding the purse.

Why for the Kings: They finally move on from Bagley who has been off and on injured and might need a change of scenery himself. Kings plug in a 20/10 guy who came out less touted than Bagley but has been able to stay injury free for more of his career and has had the much better career so far.


Thoughts?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycp4nkv5
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#778 » by saloonyk8 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:15 pm

Spud2nique wrote:My hand made me. I love JC still...

Hawks out: John Collins + Bruno Fernando
Hawks in: Marvin Bagley

Sac out: Marvin Bagley
Sac in: John Collins+Bruno Fernando


Why for Atlanta: They find a pf replacement for Collins since he did not sign long term and couldn’t get a deal from the Hawks. Bagley has a 14.7 mill qualifying offer for 2021-22 thus allowing the Hawks another year of holding the purse.

Why for the Kings: They finally move on from Bagley who has been off and on injured and might need a change of scenery himself. Kings plug in a 20/10 guy who came out less touted than Bagley but has been able to stay injury free for more of his career and has had the much better career so far.


Thoughts?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycp4nkv5


IMO that's terrible return for Collins. I wouldn't approach that deal at all.

I would rather pay Collins 4/125 then take spare parts or trash
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#779 » by Spud2nique » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:23 pm

saloonyk8 wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:My hand made me. I love JC still...

Hawks out: John Collins + Bruno Fernando
Hawks in: Marvin Bagley

Sac out: Marvin Bagley
Sac in: John Collins+Bruno Fernando


Why for Atlanta: They find a pf replacement for Collins since he did not sign long term and couldn’t get a deal from the Hawks. Bagley has a 14.7 mill qualifying offer for 2021-22 thus allowing the Hawks another year of holding the purse.

Why for the Kings: They finally move on from Bagley who has been off and on injured and might need a change of scenery himself. Kings plug in a 20/10 guy who came out less touted than Bagley but has been able to stay injury free for more of his career and has had the much better career so far.


Thoughts?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycp4nkv5


IMO that's terrible return for Collins. I wouldn't approach that deal at all.

I would rather pay Collins 4/125 then take spare parts or trash


Collins at 4/125 won’t be the number in a few months for us when we see Okongwu’s quick progression. JC is worth 4/88 to me. 4/92 if you twist my arm.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread Part 3 

Post#780 » by saloonyk8 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:33 pm

It's been one game but Wiseman looked great.

I'm sure they would've taken Collins for him before the draft. Wonder if they're interested still lol
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