ImageImage

Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish!

Moderators: dms269, HMFFL, Jamaaliver

kg01
Head Coach
Posts: 6,022
And1: 7,830
Joined: Jun 28, 2017
 

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#101 » by kg01 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 2:59 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
King Ken wrote:This is the good and the best of Reddish.
Right now in general he is a 5 on offense and a 8.5 on defense. That's an overall total of 6.75 and since many people weigh offense 80 to 70% over defense, to them Cam will be trash.


Image


Oh man. It's too bad you can't keep up with the conversation, @jamallo. Try doing some studying then rejoin the conversation.

:)
king01 :king:
shakes0
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,893
And1: 2,067
Joined: Jul 14, 2017
Location: Chicago
       

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#102 » by shakes0 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 3:35 pm

The biggest problem with Cam is that he's, unfortunately, basketball-stupid. He has a serious lack of BBIQ and that's not something that is easy to learn. He's the last guy who should be handling the ball and directing the break or the offense. No court vision at all. Several times last night he ran the break and missed Trae wide open on the 3 point line (although maybe passing to Trae last night wasn't a good idea) and instead ended up with a much worse option or a turnover.

He also settles or seems to even seek out tougher shots than he needs to take. Pull up fade away 3 pointers on the break are not good shots.

He's also only playing at one speed, fast. He has no concept of slowing the game down or changing speeds. He just goes 100 MPH into traffic and then tries a spin move, or if we are lucky, the rarely seen double spin move.
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 10,579
And1: 7,627
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#103 » by jayu70 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 3:47 pm

shakes0 wrote:The biggest problem with Cam is that he's, unfortunately, basketball-stupid. He has a serious lack of BBIQ and that's not something that is easy to learn. He's the last guy who should be handling the ball and directing the break or the offense. No court vision at all. Several times last night he ran the break and missed Trae wide open on the 3 point line (although maybe passing to Trae last night wasn't a good idea) and instead ended up with a much worse option or a turnover.

He also settles or seems to even seek out tougher shots than he needs to take. Pull up fade away 3 pointers on the break are not good shots.

He's also only playing at one speed, fast. He has no concept of slowing the game down or changing speeds. He just goes 100 MPH into traffic and then tries a spin move, or if we are lucky, the rarely seen double spin move.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

I think he understands that. The game is moving fast for him and he's playing to fast.
shakes0
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,893
And1: 2,067
Joined: Jul 14, 2017
Location: Chicago
       

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#104 » by shakes0 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 5:39 pm

jayu70 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:The biggest problem with Cam is that he's, unfortunately, basketball-stupid. He has a serious lack of BBIQ and that's not something that is easy to learn. He's the last guy who should be handling the ball and directing the break or the offense. No court vision at all. Several times last night he ran the break and missed Trae wide open on the 3 point line (although maybe passing to Trae last night wasn't a good idea) and instead ended up with a much worse option or a turnover.

He also settles or seems to even seek out tougher shots than he needs to take. Pull up fade away 3 pointers on the break are not good shots.

He's also only playing at one speed, fast. He has no concept of slowing the game down or changing speeds. He just goes 100 MPH into traffic and then tries a spin move, or if we are lucky, the rarely seen double spin move.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

I think he understands that. The game is moving fast for him and he's playing to fast.


I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 24,163
And1: 8,730
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#105 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 7, 2019 5:54 pm

shakes0 wrote:I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.



One small, largely unnoticed aspect of Cam's struggles...watch how his teammates react on the court when he makes a dumb play/turnover/forced shot.

There is visible frustration...in week 3. (Multiple times last Thursday against MIAMI, Collins would get the defensive rebound, look off Cam and push the ball down himself before passing it instead to K Huerter.)


Seeing an assistant coach blow his lid last night when clearly looking in the direction of Cam is also noteworthy.
kg01
Head Coach
Posts: 6,022
And1: 7,830
Joined: Jun 28, 2017
 

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#106 » by kg01 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 6:01 pm

Seems like we're reaching at this point.

I say "we" when I clearly mean a certain newly-minted mod. :)
king01 :king:
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 10,579
And1: 7,627
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#107 » by jayu70 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 6:18 pm

shakes0 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:The biggest problem with Cam is that he's, unfortunately, basketball-stupid. He has a serious lack of BBIQ and that's not something that is easy to learn. He's the last guy who should be handling the ball and directing the break or the offense. No court vision at all. Several times last night he ran the break and missed Trae wide open on the 3 point line (although maybe passing to Trae last night wasn't a good idea) and instead ended up with a much worse option or a turnover.

He also settles or seems to even seek out tougher shots than he needs to take. Pull up fade away 3 pointers on the break are not good shots.

He's also only playing at one speed, fast. He has no concept of slowing the game down or changing speeds. He just goes 100 MPH into traffic and then tries a spin move, or if we are lucky, the rarely seen double spin move.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

I think he understands that. The game is moving fast for him and he's playing to fast.


I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.

7 games.
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 8,602
And1: 4,963
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#108 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 7, 2019 6:43 pm

shakes0 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:The biggest problem with Cam is that he's, unfortunately, basketball-stupid. He has a serious lack of BBIQ and that's not something that is easy to learn. He's the last guy who should be handling the ball and directing the break or the offense. No court vision at all. Several times last night he ran the break and missed Trae wide open on the 3 point line (although maybe passing to Trae last night wasn't a good idea) and instead ended up with a much worse option or a turnover.

He also settles or seems to even seek out tougher shots than he needs to take. Pull up fade away 3 pointers on the break are not good shots.

He's also only playing at one speed, fast. He has no concept of slowing the game down or changing speeds. He just goes 100 MPH into traffic and then tries a spin move, or if we are lucky, the rarely seen double spin move.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

I think he understands that. The game is moving fast for him and he's playing to fast.


I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.

Disagree with the Basketball stupid stuff. We have players and had who had major bouts with stupidity on offense and Cam isn't one.

The game is simply moving too fast for him and he trying to overly do things.

Bembry has bouts of Basketball stupidity. Josh Smith was the king of it. Bazemore is another.

Cam just playing too fast and just hasn't developed professional Basketball instincts yet which is common from those straight out of HS guys but not so much from 1 and dones but for Cam, offensively, he is like a straight out of HS guy. He needs one very strong offseason to really work on his game and body. He is offensively raw.
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 8,602
And1: 4,963
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#109 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 7, 2019 6:46 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
shakes0 wrote:I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.



One small, largely unnoticed aspect of Cam's struggles...watch how his teammates react on the court when he makes a dumb play/turnover/forced shot.

There is visible frustration...in week 3. (Multiple times last Thursday against MIAMI, Collins would get the defensive rebound, look off Cam and push the ball down himself before passing it instead to K Huerter.)


Seeing an assistant coach blow his lid last night when clearly looking in the direction of Cam is also noteworthy.

Our team tends to be frustrated when anyone other than Trae gets the rock trying to make a play. Most of our guys can't do it but keep singling out Cam.

Bazemore, Prince and even Lin would commonly do this to Trae at the start of his rookie year but this is a thing you are pushing v. Cam for Kevin who has been a shell of himself this season.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 24,163
And1: 8,730
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#110 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 7, 2019 7:42 pm

King Ken wrote:Bazemore, Prince and even Lin would commonly do this to Trae at the start of his rookie year...



Now this is very true.

Prince was especially guilty of being annoyed by Trae's erratic play. (I've long wondered if that's part of the reason he was being shopped last season at the trade deadline.)
shakes0
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,893
And1: 2,067
Joined: Jul 14, 2017
Location: Chicago
       

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#111 » by shakes0 » Thu Nov 7, 2019 8:45 pm

jayu70 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

I think he understands that. The game is moving fast for him and he's playing to fast.


I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.

7 games.


7 games + all of last season.

Cam isn't a typical top 10 one and done. Usually those guys experience success during their one season in college. Then they come to the NBA and there is a big adjustment period before they get it and start to hopefully play at the level they played in college relative to their peers. Cam, on the other hand, was **** last year. So far, he's dog **** this year. I'm not willing to give him the same long leash I would give a guy like Trae who already proved in college he can play. Cam hasn't proven anything and he definitely hasn't earned his spot in the league.

I would have no problem with sending him down for at least half a season or until he actually proves he can good basketball at some level higher than his local high school league.
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 10,579
And1: 7,627
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#112 » by jayu70 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:07 am

shakes0 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
I'm still waiting for some on-court proof that he understands it. I'm sure he's been hearing it from coaches for a while now.

7 games.


7 games + all of last season.

Cam isn't a typical top 10 one and done. Usually those guys experience success during their one season in college. Then they come to the NBA and there is a big adjustment period before they get it and start to hopefully play at the level they played in college relative to their peers. Cam, on the other hand, was **** last year. So far, he's dog **** this year. I'm not willing to give him the same long leash I would give a guy like Trae who already proved in college he can play. Cam hasn't proven anything and he definitely hasn't earned his spot in the league.

I would have no problem with sending him down for at least half a season or until he actually proves he can good basketball at some level higher than his local high school league.

7 NBA games.
You know what he said after his 1st preseason game - it felt great to be finally be playing WITHOUT PAIN.
Pierce has determined that he has earned a spot based on his defense and team dynamics.
Deester11
Freshman
Posts: 53
And1: 59
Joined: Dec 20, 2018
       

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#113 » by Deester11 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 3:58 am

jayu70 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:7 games.


7 games + all of last season.

Cam isn't a typical top 10 one and done. Usually those guys experience success during their one season in college. Then they come to the NBA and there is a big adjustment period before they get it and start to hopefully play at the level they played in college relative to their peers. Cam, on the other hand, was **** last year. So far, he's dog **** this year. I'm not willing to give him the same long leash I would give a guy like Trae who already proved in college he can play. Cam hasn't proven anything and he definitely hasn't earned his spot in the league.

I would have no problem with sending him down for at least half a season or until he actually proves he can good basketball at some level higher than his local high school league.

7 NBA games.
You know what he said after his 1st preseason game - it felt great to be finally be playing WITHOUT PAIN.
Pierce has determined that he has earned a spot based on his defense and team dynamics.

Seriously? Cam is being sent to the G-League after 7 games? Good thing Huerter showed up later in the year or he may have had the same sentiment. By comparison, Kevin's high in points in his first 7 games was 13 points. His high in rebounds were 10 and he didn't accomplish that again until game 41. Game #27 is where Kevin really began to show up offensively and defensively although he had a pretty consistent + rating when on the floor. That's 1/4th of the season before he began to be a more consistent player. Cam will need longer probably, but the flashes most definitely have been there.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 24,163
And1: 8,730
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#114 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:49 pm

Read on Twitter
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 10,579
And1: 7,627
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#115 » by jayu70 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 3:31 pm

Wish we could send Len to the GLeague, or even the bench....just start Bruno already.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 24,163
And1: 8,730
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#116 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Nov 8, 2019 6:05 pm

John Hollinger wrote:Hollinger’s notebook

Some other notes from this week…

Cam Reddish in the spin cycle


Atlanta rookie wing Cam Reddish became an insta-meme with this nationally televised pirouette in the Miami game, but that wasn’t his only recent attempt at a right to left spin that ended in disaster.

Reddish had an equally spectacular episode on Tuesday’s win over Chicago that sadly wasn’t captured on video, spinning himself directly over the feet of teammate Damian Jones and onto his back. The next night against Chicago he was able to complete the same move upright, but sans basketball – which quickly ended up in Kris Dunn’s hands at the other end of the court.

Reddish has operated as a point forward for the Hawks, especially when Trae Young is out of the game, but early results have been shaky at best – 15 turnovers, just 14 baskets. One easy way to reduce that first number would be to remove the spin cycle from his arsenal for a while.
The Athletic

jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 10,579
And1: 7,627
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#117 » by jayu70 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:01 am

Pierce on Reddish....4:33 mark
Read on Twitter
shakes0
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,893
And1: 2,067
Joined: Jul 14, 2017
Location: Chicago
       

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#118 » by shakes0 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:23 pm

Has anyone ever been ejected from a game for picking up 2 flagrant OFFENSIVE fouls? How come we don't have a twee about that today. Cam Reddish is now the youngest player in NBA history blah blah blah.

Watching Reddish play is only enhancing my long standing belief that Coach K is the most overrated coach in all of sports. He's actually a horrible game coach and even worse at developing players. The fact that Reddish somehow had the great Coach K as a coach all of last year and still to this day has literally no idea how to play the game of basketball is a huge indictment of Coach K IMO.

This guy needs to go down the G league, the D league, the ABC league or whatever league it is where they teach people to play basketball at at least a 10th grade level. It insults my eyes and my 4 decades of watching hoops to see this guy share space on the court with professional athletes.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 24,163
And1: 8,730
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#119 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:38 pm

^LOL

And I'm officially handing off my title as Cam Reddish's biggest critic.

(NOTE: I do believe we're getting to the point where he needs to be removed from the rotation so he can focus on developing the offensive side of his game. Wherever that needs to happen.)
kg01
Head Coach
Posts: 6,022
And1: 7,830
Joined: Jun 28, 2017
 

Re: Welcome to ATL Cam Reddish! 

Post#120 » by kg01 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:00 pm

shakes0 wrote:Has anyone ever been ejected from a game for picking up 2 flagrant OFFENSIVE fouls? How come we don't have a twee about that today. Cam Reddish is now the youngest player in NBA history blah blah blah.

Watching Reddish play is only enhancing my long standing belief that Coach K is the most overrated coach in all of sports. He's actually a horrible game coach and even worse at developing players. The fact that Reddish somehow had the great Coach K as a coach all of last year and still to this day has literally no idea how to play the game of basketball is a huge indictment of Coach K IMO.

This guy needs to go down the G league, the D league, the ABC league or whatever league it is where they teach people to play basketball at at least a 10th grade level. It insults my eyes and my 4 decades of watching hoops to see this guy share space on the court with professional athletes.


First of all, don't get me started on "Coach" K. Dude stopped truly coaching kids up years ago. He's just mastered the art of acquiring talent then putting that talent in a position to win college games. That's his job. The flip side of that is exactly what you've highlighted. Players walk out of Duke the exact same player they were when they walked in.

For players who are already great, this is a fine proposition. Get all the hype of Duke and rightfully get drafted well because of it. For a player like Reddish, who needs development, he misses out on the coaching he needs. It can argued that he's a guy better off going to a non-factory school where he'll get the development he needs. He has the tools to still get drafted but he'd be a better pro had he not gone to Duke.

The same can be said for places like Kansas and UNC so this is not necessarily an anti-Duke rant. If you want me to go on an anti-Duke rant I can do that. I'd start with pontificating on why so many of their recruits go to prep $chool$ or academie$ and I'd end off by pointing out that gated community with million dollar home$ that their familie$ ... $omehow end up living in. But no, no only adidas schools are paying kids. Right, FBI? These kids are turning down 6-figures from other schools to sign with Duke ... for free. Right?

Back to Reddish, i think he'll be fine but he's super raw. The tools are there. Put him in the oven and wait.
king01 :king:

Return to Atlanta Hawks