RealGM

#51
JOHN COLLINS
ATLANTA HAWKS

This feels like the year that John Collins enters the public consciousness. There’s something in his game for everybody. Collins’ high-flying dunks give him some sugar-coated pop appeal; a blooming off-the-dribble game makes him a fascinating experiment for the die-hard crowd; and the Hawks’ upward momentum (along with Collins’ own Giannis-lite aspirations) make for some great narrative fodder. The main reason that the world should take notice is that Collins (who came within a rounding error of averaging 20 and 10) is a really good basketball player coming into his own. The reason they likely will is that he’s fun as hell to watch. If there’s any real sticking point, it’s the depth of what we can’t yet know. Evaluating any young player is difficult until we’ve seen them in a postseason setting, where the cost of every limitation is made real. It’s not yet clear what Collins’ best position might be, or what role he could play in a high-level defense. These aren’t demerits so much as caveats. Give Collins credit for thriving in the role he’s had. There’s just a different burden of proof where stardom is concerned, and that’s the category where he’ll soon find himself.

 
#62
TRAE YOUNG
ATLANTA HAWKS

Tempting as it is to move Trae Young up this list, let’s start with a frank accounting of exactly what we saw from the rookie guard last season. Young was the lead playmaker for the 23rd-ranked offense; while running that offense, Young committed more turnovers per minute than every player in the league save for James Harden and Russell Westbrook; despite his acclaim as a shooter, Young took so many difficult threes that he shot a Mudiayan 32.4% from beyond the arc; and, in a display of lousy defense by any measure, managed to register as the worst defender in the league by defensive real plus-minus. None of this means that Young isn’t a brilliant passer or a star in the making. Rather, it’s a reminder that our collective response to high-achieving rookies—in all their thrilling novelty—can sometimes gloss over the practical realities of the sport.

Part of what makes Young so interesting as a prospect is that his game is still so far from complete. He’s learning what it means to run an offense at a professional level beyond hitting tough shots and making impressive passes. There is a subtlety to the job that can only be learned through working it—the kind that was even discernible in Young’s performance as he moved from month to month during his rookie season. Give it time. The version of Young we’ll see in action in the coming season will probably play a smarter, more polished brand of basketball by some incremental measure. He’ll also still be fun and flawed, without the clarity that comes through postseason scrutiny. Let’s not rush to make Young more than he is: a 21-year-old who sees the game through a lens of incredible ambition, with the talent to someday (or sometimes) fulfill it.

Nice find, JU.

I find it noteworthy that none of Taurean, Bazemore or D Schroder made the top 100. Just a year ago, Bazemore was the only Hawk included on this list.

Man, our previous regime was horrid at scouting and player evaluation.

I have clear that Bogdanovic, Porter, Lou Williams, Buddy Hield are not better than Trae but... perhaps is better they undervalue our team

Some other prominent former Hawks on the list:

Paul Millsap | Denver Nuggets

Paul Millsap has been outpaced by younger, more exciting players, but there will always be basketball value in having an adult in the room. Although he doesn’t defend quite like he used to, Millsap still has an incredibly pronounced effect on team defense and picks up assignments his teammates can’t handle. Even though Millsap’s scoring dipped with the Nuggets last season (from 14.6 points per game to 12.6), he was unflappable when it mattered—turning up with timely drives, cuts, and rebounds when the stakes were highest. If you’re in need of a star to act as a funnel for the offense, you’d best look elsewhere. But if you’re in the market for the kind of big that makes a talented team more playoff-viable, then Millsap is the man for the job. Maybe the best thing about Millsap is that he isn’t any one thing. He isn’t exactly a stretch big, though he did hit 37% of his threes last season; it’s not entirely accurate to label him as a post player, but Millsap did score about as efficiently from the block as Karl-Anthony Towns and fellow Nugget Nikola Jokić; and though he’s no Draymond Green, Millsap does have the kind of defense-and-playmaking combo skill set that smooths out the wrinkles in execution on both ends. There’s no one frame of reference to understand what Millsap brings to a team. It’s a matter of overlaying lens upon lens to bring every feature into focus.





Jeff Teague | Minnesota Timberwolves

Jeff Teague’s brand is competence. There will be times where he leaves his team a bit wanting, but far more where he quietly—and reliably—keeps an offense running as it should. There are better point guards. There are also many with flaws far more egregious than any of Teague’s, and far more detrimental. The 2018-19 season was effectively a lost season for Teague: destabilized (and ended) by injury, complicated by Jimmy Butler’s forced exit, and subject to an uncharacteristic dip in shooting from most areas of the floor. Still, Teague managed a career-best 8.2 assists per game (tied for third in the league) in the relative chaos. While he was on the floor, players like Karl-Anthony Towns (+2.4% true shooting) and Robert Covington (+6%) were noticeably more efficient. The more indecisive streaks to Teague’s game will always be a bit frustrating. Yet on balance, he helps his teammates along without ever threatening to disrupt the natural order. Not every point guard needs designs for stardom. Some can just show up and quietly go to work.

SI.com

They have Doncic in the top 30. I must've missed the NBA where there's over 30 players between Trae and Luka.

Damn, AL still making top-20 player lists...even in the twilight of his career:

Al Horford | Philadelphia 76ers

When you run into Giannis Antetokounmpo or Joel Embiid or Anthony Davis, you need someone on your team who understands the mechanics of defense at a foundational level. You need a veteran who can internalize a scouting report and maintain a team concept. In short, you need Al Horford. In the games and matchups that really matter, Horford is one of the NBA’s most effective defenders. That’s the whole game, right there. High stakes, high leverage, high return. There are plenty of bigs who score more than Horford (13.6 PPG) does, but precious few who actually contribute more to a winning cause.

Everything about Horford is complementary. In a locker room, Horford is the kind of show-don’t-tell leader that keeps a team on track without them ever really knowing it. Teammates adore him. Coaches sing his praises. It’s very easy to like someone who does so much for the sake of the team and so little for himself. Out on the floor, Horford is the eyes of the offense and the mouthpiece of the defense. You could do worse than to literally run sets around Horford: put him in the high post, cycle cutters around the floor, and enjoy as Horford sets up an easy score just when the defense breaks. In a jam, that same playmaking becomes a team’s best way out of trouble. Reading the floor isn’t all that challenging for seasoned pros. Reading it quickly enough to keep an offense on the fly is a different bag—one that Horford has been carrying with ease his entire career.

Practical experience is part of the appeal. Of course, with it comes the aches and pains of relying on a 33-year-old with almost 30,000 minutes played over the course of his career. It’s best that he pace himself. These days, Horford is more of a perimeter player who picks his spots in the post. His move from Boston to Philadelphia was likely informed, on some level, by the toll of playing center full-time. So Horford takes a more cautious approach that’s lighter in raw production, all for the sake of being there for his team when it counts. A sensible plan, devoid of vanity—that’s about as Horford as it gets.

Jamaaliver wrote:Damn, AL still making top-20 player lists...even in the twilight of his career:

Al Horford | Philadelphia 76ers

When you run into Giannis Antetokounmpo or Joel Embiid or Anthony Davis, you need someone on your team who understands the mechanics of defense at a foundational level. You need a veteran who can internalize a scouting report and maintain a team concept. In short, you need Al Horford. In the games and matchups that really matter, Horford is one of the NBA’s most effective defenders. That’s the whole game, right there. High stakes, high leverage, high return. There are plenty of bigs who score more than Horford (13.6 PPG) does, but precious few who actually contribute more to a winning cause.

Everything about Horford is complementary. In a locker room, Horford is the kind of show-don’t-tell leader that keeps a team on track without them ever really knowing it. Teammates adore him. Coaches sing his praises. It’s very easy to like someone who does so much for the sake of the team and so little for himself. Out on the floor, Horford is the eyes of the offense and the mouthpiece of the defense. You could do worse than to literally run sets around Horford: put him in the high post, cycle cutters around the floor, and enjoy as Horford sets up an easy score just when the defense breaks. In a jam, that same playmaking becomes a team’s best way out of trouble. Reading the floor isn’t all that challenging for seasoned pros. Reading it quickly enough to keep an offense on the fly is a different bag—one that Horford has been carrying with ease his entire career.

Practical experience is part of the appeal. Of course, with it comes the aches and pains of relying on a 33-year-old with almost 30,000 minutes played over the course of his career. It’s best that he pace himself. These days, Horford is more of a perimeter player who picks his spots in the post. His move from Boston to Philadelphia was likely informed, on some level, by the toll of playing center full-time. So Horford takes a more cautious approach that’s lighter in raw production, all for the sake of being there for his team when it counts. A sensible plan, devoid of vanity—that’s about as Horford as it gets.

This list sucks. It had dummy ole Klay at 58, I agree he does have a stupid face but he’s better than 58. Al is not even top 50 at this point. Who catered this list, Sears?

Spud2nique wrote:

Jamaaliver wrote:Damn, AL still making top-20 player lists...even in the twilight of his career:

Al Horford | Philadelphia 76ers

When you run into Giannis Antetokounmpo or Joel Embiid or Anthony Davis, you need someone on your team who understands the mechanics of defense at a foundational level. You need a veteran who can internalize a scouting report and maintain a team concept. In short, you need Al Horford. In the games and matchups that really matter, Horford is one of the NBA’s most effective defenders. That’s the whole game, right there. High stakes, high leverage, high return. There are plenty of bigs who score more than Horford (13.6 PPG) does, but precious few who actually contribute more to a winning cause.

Everything about Horford is complementary. In a locker room, Horford is the kind of show-don’t-tell leader that keeps a team on track without them ever really knowing it. Teammates adore him. Coaches sing his praises. It’s very easy to like someone who does so much for the sake of the team and so little for himself. Out on the floor, Horford is the eyes of the offense and the mouthpiece of the defense. You could do worse than to literally run sets around Horford: put him in the high post, cycle cutters around the floor, and enjoy as Horford sets up an easy score just when the defense breaks. In a jam, that same playmaking becomes a team’s best way out of trouble. Reading the floor isn’t all that challenging for seasoned pros. Reading it quickly enough to keep an offense on the fly is a different bag—one that Horford has been carrying with ease his entire career.

Practical experience is part of the appeal. Of course, with it comes the aches and pains of relying on a 33-year-old with almost 30,000 minutes played over the course of his career. It’s best that he pace himself. These days, Horford is more of a perimeter player who picks his spots in the post. His move from Boston to Philadelphia was likely informed, on some level, by the toll of playing center full-time. So Horford takes a more cautious approach that’s lighter in raw production, all for the sake of being there for his team when it counts. A sensible plan, devoid of vanity—that’s about as Horford as it gets.

This list sucks. It had dummy ole Klay at 58, I agree he does have a stupid face but he’s better than 58. Al is not even top 50 at this point. Who catered this list, Sears?

the list is based on this upcoming season only. Klay currently has a torn ACL and might not be back this season. But he might. Hence he is still ranked, but understandably low.

Jamaaliver wrote:I find it noteworthy that none of Taurean, Bazemore or D Schroder made the top 100.

Top 100 NBA Players of 2020: Biggest Snubs

Dennis Schröder, Thunder: There’s no real advantage in playing Schröder as a starter, and not much to be gained, it seems, from playing him as a reserve. The 25-year-old point guard should have been the best backup Russell Westbrook ever had. Instead, the Thunder struggled to keep their heads above water whenever Schröder was on the floor. Putting up numbers (15.5 points and 4.1 assists per game) doesn’t signify much under those circumstances.

SI.com

ESPN Top 100 list is out.
100-51 here. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27640475/ranking-best-players-nba-season-100-51
...no Trae and John.

2 top 50 players?

jayu70 wrote:ESPN Top 100 list is out.
100-51 here. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27640475/ranking-best-players-nba-season-100-51
...no Trae and John.

2 top 50 players?

Collins listed at #47 sounds pretty darn good for th e3rd year player.

47. John Collins



Atlanta Hawks | PF

Brian Windhorst on Collins and Trae Young: Young running the high pick-and-roll with Collins is the new highlight factory in Atlanta, with Collins rolling to the rim to accept lobs from Young in traffic and slamming them down. We've devoted a lot of attention to Young, but Collins' role in the Hawks' machine is just as impressive. Just two years into the development program, Collins has blossomed into a future All-Star, averaging 19 points and 10 rebounds in his second season.

ESPN

Prediction:

Collins #36

Trae #27

Spud2nique wrote:Prediction:

Collins #36

Trae #27

Collins at #47.

jayu70 wrote:

Spud2nique wrote:Prediction:

Collins #36

Trae #27

Collins at #47.

Oh they updated the list already? Wow they said over the next few weeks.

John will have a better season than:

Aaron Gordon
Myles Turner
Kevin Love

jayu70 wrote:

Spud2nique wrote:Prediction:

Collins #36

Trae #27

Collins at #47.

I might nail Trae at #27!

And nail it, you did!!!

Spud2nique wrote:I might nail Trae at #27!

Ranking the best players in the NBA this season, from 30 to 11

28. Trae Young



Atlanta Hawks | PG

One big question: Young is a voracious scorer and offensive mastermind, but in his sophomore season he will need to address his greatest vulnerability: defense. His defensive real plus-minus of minus-4.74 in 2018-19 was the lowest rating for an NBA starter in five seasons. While rookies often struggle to grasp the physical demands and nuances of NBA defense, Young must get up to speed if he aspires to lead the Hawks to the kind of success his brilliant offensive gifts portend. -- Kevin Arnovitz

ESPN

Jamaaliver wrote:And nail it, you did!!!

Spud2nique wrote:I might nail Trae at #27!

Ranking the best players in the NBA this season, from 30 to 11

28. Trae Young



Atlanta Hawks | PG

One big question: Young is a voracious scorer and offensive mastermind, but in his sophomore season he will need to address his greatest vulnerability: defense. His defensive real plus-minus of minus-4.74 in 2018-19 was the lowest rating for an NBA starter in five seasons. While rookies often struggle to grasp the physical demands and nuances of NBA defense, Young must get up to speed if he aspires to lead the Hawks to the kind of success his brilliant offensive gifts portend. -- Kevin Arnovitz

ESPN

Ohhhh sooo close. Honestly he’s a top 15 guy next year, maybe 12.

My top 10:(I think BSPN ranks Lebron and Curry higher though).

1. Giannis
2. Kawhi
3. Anthony Davis
4. Harden
5. Paul George
6. Lebron
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. Curry
10. Lillard

Spud2nique wrote:My top 10:(I think BSPN ranks Lebron and Curry higher though).

1. Giannis
2. Kawhi
3. Anthony Davis
4. Harden
5. Paul George
6. Lebron
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. Curry
10. Lillard

LBJ and Curry to 3 and 4

jayu70 wrote:

Spud2nique wrote:My top 10:(I think BSPN ranks Lebron and Curry higher though).

1. Giannis
2. Kawhi
3. Anthony Davis
4. Harden
5. Paul George
6. Lebron
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. Curry
10. Lillard

LBJ and Curry to 3 and 4

Do you have the same list as kg? I think he moved those two up as well. Hmm.