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The Next Phase in Trae's Development

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#41 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:42 pm

A debate to ponder on before the Hawks - Grizzlies matchup on Saturday:

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#42 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:23 am

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#43 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:11 am

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#44 » by Spud2nique » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:25 am

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Good. I’ve had to put up with Zeke, Bird, Durant and LeBron’s of the world, now it’s time for others to hate our guy because he’s so good! :lol:
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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#45 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:56 pm

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#46 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 1, 2021 7:52 pm

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#47 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 1, 2021 9:33 pm

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Trae Young is a magician

Atlanta's offense is laying waste to the league. It appears legitimate. Atlanta won't finish as the most potent offense ever -- it would be as of today -- but the Hawks are a problem.

It starts with Young, who is impossible to grasp. He moves in strange, unpredictable ways. He has nasty hesitation dribbles with either hand, and changes pace and direction at the same time; he might meander north-south in one dribble, and then accelerate east-west the next. He whips one-handed passes lefty and righty, at every angle imaginable. He launches righty floaters while fading left. And Young remains the king of rejecting picks, bolting the moment he sees his defender -- panicking at the thought of Young getting any daylight -- leaning toward an oncoming screen.

Young is an unusual mix of incredible athleticism and straight-up weirdness.

Defenders lose their way trying to navigate his maze of jagged twists. Sometimes, they lose their balance and tumble into him. And when all else fails, Young jumps, sticks his butt out, and draws (bogus) fouls.

Atlanta surrounds Young with more shooting and veteran savvy. The Hawks can play big, small, or even super-small with Danilo Gallinari at center. Cam Reddish and De'Andre Hunter are jacking with audacity; they might make more pull-up 3s in the first 25 games than they did all of last season.

Young is running fewer pick-and-rolls as the Hawks (slightly) democratize their offense, but he's shooting more often out of them, per Second Spectrum. (He still needs to move more off the ball, but perhaps that will come.)

Young has drawn fouls on 12.5% of pick-and-rolls that have ended possessions, a mark that would have led the league by a mile last season. The Hawks have scored 1.16 points per possession anytime Young shoots out of a pick-and-roll, or passes to a teammate who launches -- a mark that (again) would have led the league.

That number balloons to absurd highs when Collins is Young's screener, and higher yet when Collins slips early out of picks -- something he has done over the past two seasons more than everyone but Rudy Gobert and Jarrett Allen, per an ESPN Stats & Information analysis of Second Spectrum data.

You can see Atlanta finally developing an identity on offense when Young rests -- sets heavy on Bogdan Bogdanovic and Kevin Huerter popping off picks and setting them.

The next big question is how the Collins-Clint Capela frontcourt functions on offense. It's clear the Hawks need Capela to have any chance defending anyone, but the double-big setup requires adjustments. Young and the Hawks appear up for that problem solving.
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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#48 » by Spud2nique » Fri Jan 1, 2021 9:35 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
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Trae Young is a magician

Atlanta's offense is laying waste to the league. It appears legitimate. Atlanta won't finish as the most potent offense ever -- it would be as of today -- but the Hawks are a problem.

It starts with Young, who is impossible to grasp. He moves in strange, unpredictable ways. He has nasty hesitation dribbles with either hand, and changes pace and direction at the same time; he might meander north-south in one dribble, and then accelerate east-west the next. He whips one-handed passes lefty and righty, at every angle imaginable. He launches righty floaters while fading left. And Young remains the king of rejecting picks, bolting the moment he sees his defender -- panicking at the thought of Young getting any daylight -- leaning toward an oncoming screen.

Young is an unusual mix of incredible athleticism and straight-up weirdness.

Defenders lose their way trying to navigate his maze of jagged twists. Sometimes, they lose their balance and tumble into him. And when all else fails, Young jumps, sticks his butt out, and draws (bogus) fouls.

Atlanta surrounds Young with more shooting and veteran savvy. The Hawks can play big, small, or even super-small with Danilo Gallinari at center. Cam Reddish and De'Andre Hunter are jacking with audacity; they might make more pull-up 3s in the first 25 games than they did all of last season.

Young is running fewer pick-and-rolls as the Hawks (slightly) democratize their offense, but he's shooting more often out of them, per Second Spectrum. (He still needs to move more off the ball, but perhaps that will come.)

Young has drawn fouls on 12.5% of pick-and-rolls that have ended possessions, a mark that would have led the league by a mile last season. The Hawks have scored 1.16 points per possession anytime Young shoots out of a pick-and-roll, or passes to a teammate who launches -- a mark that (again) would have led the league.

That number balloons to absurd highs when Collins is Young's screener, and higher yet when Collins slips early out of picks -- something he has done over the past two seasons more than everyone but Rudy Gobert and Jarrett Allen, per an ESPN Stats & Information analysis of Second Spectrum data.

You can see Atlanta finally developing an identity on offense when Young rests -- sets heavy on Bogdan Bogdanovic and Kevin Huerter popping off picks and setting them.

The next big question is how the Collins-Clint Capela frontcourt functions on offense. It's clear the Hawks need Capela to have any chance defending anyone, but the double-big setup requires adjustments. Young and the Hawks appear up for that problem solving.



Oh nice I thought weird meant bad I went off on him lol.
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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#49 » by HMFFL » Fri Jan 1, 2021 9:47 pm

15.5 free throw attempts per game is impressive. He's forcing his opponents to make contact and it's working out nicely for Trae. One of the best weapons to have is free throw attempts.

On the GB there is a thread about it that has over 250 responses if anyone wants a good laugh at how mad others are.

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#50 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:06 am

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#51 » by jayu70 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:05 pm

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#52 » by HMFFL » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:31 pm

jayu70 wrote:
He's an artist when he faces Kyrie.

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#53 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:19 am

This is still the blueprint for Trae:

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#54 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 6, 2021 12:31 am

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#55 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:24 am

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#56 » by shakes0 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:52 pm

I'm confused this season. We were told that there would be some focus on getting Trae to play off the ball a bit in an attempt to remove some wear and tear from him and also to free him up for some catch and shoot opportunities. So here we are into the season and sure enough we have definitely seen Trae off the ball at times.

However, where I am confused is with what he is doing when he is off the ball. He's literally just standing there in the corner or on the perimeter. No movement, no running through screens, no running back and forth on the baseline trying to get open. Nothing, just standing in one spot outside the 3 point line.

This is 100% the coaches fault. Are they not instructing Trae to run his man through screens? Are they not drawing up plays for Trae to get open off the ball? Crap, are they not just sitting Trae down in front of a TV and having him spend time watching film on Steph Curry?

I really don't understand what I'm seeing. I'm not a basketball coach and even I can see it clear as day that there is zero effort being made in this regard. Does Lloyd Pierce not understand the concept of moving without the basketball?
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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#57 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:14 pm

shakes0 wrote: Does Lloyd Pierce not understand the concept of moving without the basketball?




jayu70 wrote:Pierce's thought on playing Trae off ball from January (2020):

....while the Hawks have said they’d like for Young to develop his off-ball skills, he hasn’t shown he’s someone who can constantly run off screens and come off of pin-downs just yet.

“That requires skill and still takes a lot of time. Once you buy in to playing and moving that way — JJ Redick and Joe Harris — that’s a skill. Trae has a skill with the ball. Those guys have a skill without the basketball, and it’s not get him off the ball, and he’s all of a sudden that. That’s a lot of commitment to movement and understanding you’re going to get the reward on the back end.”
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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#58 » by shakes0 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:33 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
shakes0 wrote: Does Lloyd Pierce not understand the concept of moving without the basketball?




jayu70 wrote:Pierce's thought on playing Trae off ball from January (2020):

....while the Hawks have said they’d like for Young to develop his off-ball skills, he hasn’t shown he’s someone who can constantly run off screens and come off of pin-downs just yet.

“That requires skill and still takes a lot of time. Once you buy in to playing and moving that way — JJ Redick and Joe Harris — that’s a skill. Trae has a skill with the ball. Those guys have a skill without the basketball, and it’s not get him off the ball, and he’s all of a sudden that. That’s a lot of commitment to movement and understanding you’re going to get the reward on the back end.”



so a year ago Pierce says that Trae is too stupid to realize he should move without the ball? A guy who has elite vision and BBIQ? Give me a break!

It's not that hard, just keep your damn feet moving and never stay in one spot for more than a second. I'm not buying this nonsense that Trae isn't smart enough to figure out how to run a defender ragged through screens.

That quote is yet another reason I'm losing all confidence in Pierce. You want Trae to move without the ball how about telling him to do it? Or show him how if he really doesn't understand. It's not a difficult skill to learn despite what Pierce says in that quote. :noway:
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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#59 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:27 pm

Ah, Trae. Still the best offensive player in his draft class...and the worst defender this side of Marvin Bagley.

(Poor Kings fans.)

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Re: The Next Phase in Trae's Development 

Post#60 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:32 am

There’s a fairly obvious solution to this:

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