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Hawks 2020-2021 roster

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myrak433
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Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#1 » by myrak433 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:24 pm

Hawks sign KCP (3 year 36 million) and DeRozan (3 year 60 Million 25M, 20M, 15M) resign Jeff Teague not sure contact. Draft Toppin or Okongwu at pick 6

Trae- Teague
KCP-Huerter/Reddish
DeRozan-Hunter/Reddish
Collins-Dedmon
Capela- Dedmon

Do you all think that would be a playoff Team? Could Moe Harkless be signed as well to play some backup minutes at the 4?
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#2 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:22 am

Nope. Not blowing capspace this and next season.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#3 » by D21 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:25 am

DeRozan is at a constant negative NET on/off court these last years, even with TOR, all the team he played with were better with him on the bench than while playing. He's, or almost, the only player with this kind of contract, to get this stat in negative in the league, it's too much of a coincidence to not explain why his teams can't win.
Exception : the only one season with TOR he decided to take 3s... His defense was not better, but the fact that teams had to respect him a bit from the 3 points line helped the offense of the team.

And KCP had the same kind of impact... but he hits 3s. Note that the defense of LAK was 5pts worst with him than without him, while the offense was better.
Now, I liked his energy in Finals, and his speed, but if it was like because of a potential new contract... And the "you're nothing at Robinson" mentality is not the best kind of things to bring in the middle of our young guys, I suppose
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#4 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:21 am

D21 wrote:DeRozan is at a constant negative NET on/off court these last years, even with TOR, all the team he played with were better with him on the bench than while playing. He's, or almost, the only player with this kind of contract, to get this stat in negative in the league, it's too much of a coincidence to not explain why his teams can't win.
Exception : the only one season with TOR he decided to take 3s... His defense was not better, but the fact that teams had to respect him a bit from the 3 points line helped the offense of the team.

And KCP had the same kind of impact... but he hits 3s. Note that the defense of LAK was 5pts worst with him than without him, while the offense was better.
Now, I liked his energy in Finals, and his speed, but if it was like because of a potential new contract... And the "you're nothing at Robinson" mentality is not the best kind of things to bring in the middle of our young guys, I suppose


Every game I have ever watched of KCP he always played with High energy on the Defensive end
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#5 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:46 am

My thoughts are that DeRozan could be the Hawks' Shaun Livingston and KCP could be Iguodala. and adding these vets the Hawks could do so without losing any of their young core players. Huerter, Hunter, and Cam could log substantial minutes and develop without sacrificing win and loses; therefore getting Trae Young to the playoffs and getting him exposure to playoff basketball. I feel this would attract more and better free agents to the Hawks for 2021 and beyond. And adding KCP and DeRozan the Hawks still should have the cap space to add one more big time free agent in 2021.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#6 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:24 pm

myrak433 wrote:My thoughts are that DeRozan could be the Hawks' Shaun Livingston and KCP could be Iguodala. and adding these vets the Hawks could do so without losing any of their young core players. Huerter, Hunter, and Cam could log substantial minutes and develop without sacrificing win and loses; therefore getting Trae Young to the playoffs and getting him exposure to playoff basketball. I feel this would attract more and better free agents to the Hawks for 2021 and beyond. And adding KCP and DeRozan the Hawks still should have the cap space to add one more big time free agent in 2021.
I'll paste what I wrote on the T&T Board:

Except they aren't...and no they won't. The salaries you proposed for KCP and DeRozan combined is $39 million total. Hawks have approximately $44 million in capspace (using $109 cap). What is your estimated cap number for next season for you to think we can add another BIG TIME FA? Add John Collin's caphold IF he isn't extended this offseason, Trae's early extension...I'm hard pressed to believe we'd have capspace for a BIG TIME FA.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#7 » by azuresou1 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:26 pm

I'll put this politely - we need DeRozan/KCP on those contracts like I need a .50 cal slug in my head.

I wouldn't sign either of those guys to 1 year deals at half that amount of money, much less for 3 years. Simply ridiculous, easy way to make sure Trae GTFO of Atlanta because we hardcapped as a 5th seed.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#8 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:37 pm

azuresou1 wrote:I'll put this politely - we need DeRozan/KCP on those contracts like I need a .50 cal slug in my head.

I wouldn't sign either of those guys to 1 year deals at half that amount of money, much less for 3 years. Simply ridiculous, easy way to make sure Trae GTFO of Atlanta because we hardcapped as a 5th seed.


How would the Hawks be hard capped? DD would be making 25M in his last year (about the same as Chandler Parsons was making) but I am sure DD would be more productive that Chandler Parsons was with the Hawks. KCP would be making less than Bazemore did when he was in Atlanta (KCP 12M per and Baze 17M per) I know KCP would bring at least what Baze did.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#9 » by shakes0 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:01 pm

myrak433 wrote:Hawks sign KCP (3 year 36 million) and DeRozan (3 year 60 Million 25M, 20M, 15M) resign Jeff Teague not sure contact. Draft Toppin or Okongwu at pick 6

Trae- Teague
KCP-Huerter/Reddish
DeRozan-Hunter/Reddish
Collins-Dedmon
Capela- Dedmon

Do you all think that would be a playoff Team? Could Moe Harkless be signed as well to play some backup minutes at the 4?



awful.

myrak, take a look out your window or turn on your TV, do you really think now is the time to be cavalier with our cap space? This is your worst suggestion yet and that's saying something :D
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#10 » by azuresou1 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:08 pm

myrak433 wrote:
azuresou1 wrote:I'll put this politely - we need DeRozan/KCP on those contracts like I need a .50 cal slug in my head.

I wouldn't sign either of those guys to 1 year deals at half that amount of money, much less for 3 years. Simply ridiculous, easy way to make sure Trae GTFO of Atlanta because we hardcapped as a 5th seed.


How would the Hawks be hard capped? DD would be making 25M in his last year (about the same as Chandler Parsons was making) but I am sure DD would be more productive that Chandler Parsons was with the Hawks. KCP would be making less than Bazemore did when he was in Atlanta (KCP 12M per and Baze 17M per) I know KCP would bring at least what Baze did.


:lol: what kind of rationale is this?

Parsons was one of the worst contracts in the league, and Bazemore was a bad contract as well. They are part of the reason this team never went anywhere.


Blowing your wad on guys like DeMar DeRozan and KCP when you have a borderline playoff team is how you lock yourself into being a 48-52 win team with zero shot of going any further. This is exactly the type of behavior that caused New Orleans to be perpetually ****, and why Anthony Davis decided he needed to GTFO to a real front office that wasn't going all in on pocket 6s.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#11 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:18 pm

azuresou1 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
azuresou1 wrote:I'll put this politely - we need DeRozan/KCP on those contracts like I need a .50 cal slug in my head.

I wouldn't sign either of those guys to 1 year deals at half that amount of money, much less for 3 years. Simply ridiculous, easy way to make sure Trae GTFO of Atlanta because we hardcapped as a 5th seed.


How would the Hawks be hard capped? DD would be making 25M in his last year (about the same as Chandler Parsons was making) but I am sure DD would be more productive that Chandler Parsons was with the Hawks. KCP would be making less than Bazemore did when he was in Atlanta (KCP 12M per and Baze 17M per) I know KCP would bring at least what Baze did.


:lol: what kind of rationale is this?

Parsons was one of the worst contracts in the league, and Bazemore was a bad contract as well. They are part of the reason this team never went anywhere.


Blowing your wad on guys like DeMar DeRozan and KCP when you have a borderline playoff team is how you lock yourself into being a 48-52 win team with zero shot of going any further. This is exactly the type of behavior that caused New Orleans to be perpetually ****, and why Anthony Davis decided he needed to GTFO to a real front office that wasn't going all in on pocket 6s.


A 2 year deal for a player like DD and a 3 year deal for a legitimate NBA starting player at 12M a year is not blowing your wad. now if you think that KCP is not a legitimate NBA starting caliber player then we are at an impasse.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#12 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:26 pm

shakes0 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:Hawks sign KCP (3 year 36 million) and DeRozan (3 year 60 Million 25M, 20M, 15M) resign Jeff Teague not sure contact. Draft Toppin or Okongwu at pick 6

Trae- Teague
KCP-Huerter/Reddish
DeRozan-Hunter/Reddish
Collins-Dedmon
Capela- Dedmon

Do you all think that would be a playoff Team? Could Moe Harkless be signed as well to play some backup minutes at the 4?



awful.

myrak, take a look out your window or turn on your TV, do you really think now is the time to be cavalier with our cap space? This is your worst suggestion yet and that's saying something :D


ok, you have to fill out the roster and have to spin money on some players. but we will see. I am now thinking what ever the Hawks do some on this board will hate it. I am not the one that is putting out there that the Hawks could be interested in KCP. I am just saying it could be a good move and asking if you all think that this line up could be a playoff team.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#13 » by azuresou1 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:00 pm

DD is very talented but fundamentally flawed player - he only really scores with the ball in his hands (albeit at a very high rate) and does nothing else, including being terrible on defense. He makes sense if you're a stellar defensive team that can't score the ball, like Milwaukee. We have the exact opposite problem - stellar offense when Trae is on the court, but we hemorrhage points.

KCP is not a starting caliber NBA player. He is a rotation depth guy.

Neither of those guys belong on this team, and they certainly don't belong here now. You pick up depth rotation guys AFTER you've locked in your big names on big contracts, because that's the only way you can successfully acquire enough championship level assets. Once you're up on cap, THAT'S when you start using MLEs and vet minimums and then flipping those assets for slightly more salary to balloon your total salary.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#14 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:24 pm

myrak433 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:Hawks sign KCP (3 year 36 million) and DeRozan (3 year 60 Million 25M, 20M, 15M) resign Jeff Teague not sure contact. Draft Toppin or Okongwu at pick 6

Trae- Teague
KCP-Huerter/Reddish
DeRozan-Hunter/Reddish
Collins-Dedmon
Capela- Dedmon

Do you all think that would be a playoff Team? Could Moe Harkless be signed as well to play some backup minutes at the 4?



awful.

myrak, take a look out your window or turn on your TV, do you really think now is the time to be cavalier with our cap space? This is your worst suggestion yet and that's saying something :D


ok, you have to fill out the roster and have to spin money on some players. but we will see. I am now thinking what ever the Hawks do some on this board will hate it. I am not the one that is putting out there that the Hawks could be interested in KCP. I am just saying it could be a good move and asking if you all think that this line up could be a playoff team.

Ok, I'll play....think the team could be a playoff team. I just don't think that is the route we should take. I think we should give our young players a chance to develop to see what we have and which ones are keepers for the future. It's imperative we find out if these foundation pieces are championship worthy. This is for the long haul. I don't want to make a move like this to just get to the playoffs, I want us to be top 4 contention for years to come. We have our core players, we need to fill in the gaps around them.
3yrs/$36 mil is an overpay for KCP and I wouldn't start him. I'd limit it to 2yrs/$18 million at most (1+1 w/ a team option), MLE type deal. DD is a tough sell for this team with Trae - DD is at his best WITH the ball, he is very limited off ball and that's a problem. Now, would I take him for the bench, sure. If the Spurs are looking to cut salary I'd trade for his 1 year deal if he opts in by sending a very minor asset to them.
Example: I'd prefer to pay big 1 year deals to any of Milsap, Harris, Bertans, Dragic, Crowder etc.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#15 » by D21 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:00 pm

myrak433 wrote:A 2 year deal for a player like DD and a 3 year deal for a legitimate NBA starting player at 12M a year is not blowing your wad. now if you think that KCP is not a legitimate NBA starting caliber player then we are at an impasse.


Certainly an impasse.
KCP =
63rd SG of the league at RealPlusMinus (-0.8 in a winning team...)
57th PER among the SG and as PER is more on offense, his direct opponent get a better PER than him to clarify a bit his individual defense
Team defense ? Lakers defense better by 5pts on 100poss. without him than with him...

Yes he has great playoffs game, mainly in the Final, but it won't make me think he's a starting caliber. He was a starter with DET and they did nothing, and he ended with the LAL because of his agent, more than his talent, and I'm pretty sure he had nothing positive to teach to our young guys, just showing his ring and who knows if he wouldn't try to be the leader of this team because he would be a veteran ?
An easy pass for me
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#16 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:14 pm

jayu70 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:

awful.

myrak, take a look out your window or turn on your TV, do you really think now is the time to be cavalier with our cap space? This is your worst suggestion yet and that's saying something :D


ok, you have to fill out the roster and have to spin money on some players. but we will see. I am now thinking what ever the Hawks do some on this board will hate it. I am not the one that is putting out there that the Hawks could be interested in KCP. I am just saying it could be a good move and asking if you all think that this line up could be a playoff team.

Ok, I'll play....think the team could be a playoff team. I just don't think that is the route we should take. I think we should give our young players a chance to develop to see what we have and which ones are keepers for the future. It's imperative we find out if these foundation pieces are championship worthy. This is for the long haul. I don't want to make a move like this to just get to the playoffs, I want us to be top 4 contention for years to come. We have our core players, we need to fill in the gaps around them.
3yrs/$36 mil is an overpay for KCP and I wouldn't start him. I'd limit it to 2yrs/$18 million at most (1+1 w/ a team option), MLE type deal. DD is a tough sell for this team with Trae - DD is at his best WITH the ball, he is very limited off ball and that's a problem. Now, would I take him for the bench, sure. If the Spurs are looking to cut salary I'd trade for his 1 year deal if he opts in by sending a very minor asset to them.
Example: I'd prefer to pay big 1 year deals to any of Milsap, Harris, Bertans, Dragic, Crowder etc.


I would like Milsap and Crowder also. I don't believe you are going to get Harris or Bertans on a 1 year deal though.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#17 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:17 pm

myrak433 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
ok, you have to fill out the roster and have to spin money on some players. but we will see. I am now thinking what ever the Hawks do some on this board will hate it. I am not the one that is putting out there that the Hawks could be interested in KCP. I am just saying it could be a good move and asking if you all think that this line up could be a playoff team.

Ok, I'll play....think the team could be a playoff team. I just don't think that is the route we should take. I think we should give our young players a chance to develop to see what we have and which ones are keepers for the future. It's imperative we find out if these foundation pieces are championship worthy. This is for the long haul. I don't want to make a move like this to just get to the playoffs, I want us to be top 4 contention for years to come. We have our core players, we need to fill in the gaps around them.
3yrs/$36 mil is an overpay for KCP and I wouldn't start him. I'd limit it to 2yrs/$18 million at most (1+1 w/ a team option), MLE type deal. DD is a tough sell for this team with Trae - DD is at his best WITH the ball, he is very limited off ball and that's a problem. Now, would I take him for the bench, sure. If the Spurs are looking to cut salary I'd trade for his 1 year deal if he opts in by sending a very minor asset to them.
Example: I'd prefer to pay big 1 year deals to any of Milsap, Harris, Bertans, Dragic, Crowder etc.


I would like Milsap and Crowder also. I don't believe you are going to get Harris or Bertans on a 1 year deal though.

Bertans - More likely No. Harris - Maybe, depends on how high that 1 year is - word is he wants to stay in Brooklyn but signing him will cost them more than double his salary in luxury tax payments or something crazy like that so BKN will have to move some money.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#18 » by myrak433 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:35 pm

jayu70 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Ok, I'll play....think the team could be a playoff team. I just don't think that is the route we should take. I think we should give our young players a chance to develop to see what we have and which ones are keepers for the future. It's imperative we find out if these foundation pieces are championship worthy. This is for the long haul. I don't want to make a move like this to just get to the playoffs, I want us to be top 4 contention for years to come. We have our core players, we need to fill in the gaps around them.
3yrs/$36 mil is an overpay for KCP and I wouldn't start him. I'd limit it to 2yrs/$18 million at most (1+1 w/ a team option), MLE type deal. DD is a tough sell for this team with Trae - DD is at his best WITH the ball, he is very limited off ball and that's a problem. Now, would I take him for the bench, sure. If the Spurs are looking to cut salary I'd trade for his 1 year deal if he opts in by sending a very minor asset to them.
Example: I'd prefer to pay big 1 year deals to any of Milsap, Harris, Bertans, Dragic, Crowder etc.


I would like Milsap and Crowder also. I don't believe you are going to get Harris or Bertans on a 1 year deal though.

Bertans - More likely No. Harris - Maybe, depends on how high that 1 year is - word is he wants to stay in Brooklyn but signing him will cost them more than double his salary in luxury tax payments or something crazy like that so BKN will have to move some money.


I just can't see Harris not having multiple suitors. the way he shoots the 3 ball any team could use him. in saying that unless the Hawks offer him a 1 year 40M deal, I am sure he would rather take a multiple year deal over a 1 year deal. for example 4 year 80M vs. 1 year 25M. He would take the 4 year deal more guaranteed money and even though he gets more in that first year than he would in the 1st year in the 4 year deal, players realize they always are at risk to getting injured so the longer contract would be more coveted. like Dak Prescott.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#19 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:26 pm

myrak433 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
I would like Milsap and Crowder also. I don't believe you are going to get Harris or Bertans on a 1 year deal though.

Bertans - More likely No. Harris - Maybe, depends on how high that 1 year is - word is he wants to stay in Brooklyn but signing him will cost them more than double his salary in luxury tax payments or something crazy like that so BKN will have to move some money.


I just can't see Harris not having multiple suitors. the way he shoots the 3 ball any team could use him. in saying that unless the Hawks offer him a 1 year 40M deal, I am sure he would rather take a multiple year deal over a 1 year deal. for example 4 year 80M vs. 1 year 25M. He would take the 4 year deal more guaranteed money and even though he gets more in that first year than he would in the 1st year in the 4 year deal, players realize they always are at risk to getting injured so the longer contract would be more coveted. like Dak Prescott.

All true regarding long term security, but first it's ludacris to even suggest 1 for $40 mil (not CBA compliant), and two no team is paying him $20 mil per and I don't see him signing a 4 year deal.
These are the teams with capspace that can sign him outright for $20 mil per year (besides BKN):
ATLANTA: $43.2 million. New York Knicks: $41.5 million. Detroit Pistons: $28.2 million. Charlotte Hornets: $22.5 million. Miami Heat: $20.9 million. New York might be willing but they have eyes for FVV. Detroit is focused on resigning Wood. I don't see Charlotte or Miami doing it.
But like I indicated, the Nets signing him would cost them his $20 million salary plus another $20 million (maybe more as a repeat offender) in luxury tax fees alone.
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Re: Hawks 2020-2021 roster 

Post#20 » by CP War Hawks » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:36 pm

Nobody should cash out in this off season. Schlenk will try to sign a trade friendly deal with someone like Joe Harris or something. Always keep that cap space handy for when a team is desperate to create space for 2021.

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