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Trae vs John

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personanongrata
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#41 » by personanongrata » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:44 pm

myrak433 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Skin wrote:Who's more right though... Trae or John?

*asking for a friend* :)

Ha. They both need each other right now.
Trae has to manage his scoring as well as running the offense.


I like Collins but I would trade him in a heartbeat if there is conflict and/or drama with Trae.


Let's be Rockets East. Where our star makes sure anyone that questions his ball dominance is quickly traded away. Great idea.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#42 » by tbhawksfan1 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:29 pm

JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.

This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.

Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.

Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#43 » by jayu70 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:47 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.

This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.

Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.

Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve

It really helps to read the entire article if you are able
https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/?amp#click=https://t.co/hmjejG2UgB
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#44 » by tbhawksfan1 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:00 pm

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.

This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.

Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.

Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve

It really helps to read the entire article if you are able
https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/?amp#click=https://t.co/hmjejG2UgB


No subscription. Just going by what's being said.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#45 » by jayu70 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:17 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.

This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.

Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.

Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve

It really helps to read the entire article if you are able
https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/?amp#click=https://t.co/hmjejG2UgB


No subscription. Just going by what's being said.
I can't post the entire article, sorry! More:
Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.

Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.


On LP:
But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.

His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.

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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#46 » by tbhawksfan1 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:29 pm

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:


No subscription. Just going by what's being said.
I can't post the entire article, sorry! More:
Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.

Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.


On LP:
But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.

His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.




Thanks for posting this

As I said I want Trae to mature. JC has value this season and Trae needs to be the general that gets the most out of all the assets. As for Pierce. I need to see more from him
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#47 » by jayu70 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:32 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:
No subscription. Just going by what's being said.
I can't post the entire article, sorry! More:
Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.

Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.


On LP:
But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.

His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.




Thanks for posting this

As I said I want Trae to mature. JC has value this season and Trae needs to be the general that gets the most out of all the assets. As for Pierce. I need to see more from him

We need more from everyone. The first 5 games were what we can be, the last 3 were disastrous. Can't score, can't defend, suspect rotations....it had it all.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#48 » by tbhawksfan1 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:41 pm

"We need more from everyone. The first 5 games were what we can be, the last 3 were disastrous. Can't score, can't defend, suspect rotations....it had it all."

Yeah kinda Jeckel & Hyde thing. It was obvious that something was up. Hope they can come together and play as a team. A lot of youth to deal with
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#49 » by jayu70 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:47 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:"We need more from everyone. The first 5 games were what we can be, the last 3 were disastrous. Can't score, can't defend, suspect rotations....it had it all."

Yeah kinda Jeckel & Hyde thing. It was obvious that something was up. Hope they can come together and play as a team. A lot of youth to deal with

From the 3rd quarter of the Cavs game and the Knicks game (games we were both leading at the half) - the offense has looked out of sync. The Charlotte game was an entirely different animal.
I want to see how they play tonight.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#50 » by myrak433 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:51 am

personanongrata wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Ha. They both need each other right now.
Trae has to manage his scoring as well as running the offense.


I like Collins but I would trade him in a heartbeat if there is conflict and/or drama with Trae.


Let's be Rockets East. Where our star makes sure anyone that questions his ball dominance is quickly traded away. Great idea.


What does JC do well? Dunk from lobs from Trae?
He can be replaced.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#51 » by myrak433 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:58 am

We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#52 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:47 am

myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.


There's a chance...that we still need a legit 1st scorer. :o
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#53 » by myrak433 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:22 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.


There's a chance...that we still need a legit 1st scorer. :o


Trae is in a slump. It happens to the best of them, he will be ok. But if Trae was the 2nd scorer/ primary playmaker!! That would be nice too
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#54 » by dms269 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:26 pm

I am curious where is John expecting to go where he will be the primary person and not have to deal with a guy who wants to take all the shots?

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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#55 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:26 pm

Seems like our fanbase has decided to take sides in this so called rivalry. It’s not that big but f a deal. The offense lagged for a few games. During film review, the longest tenured Hawk spoke up about getting into our offense more quickly and getting other teammates involved.

These are good things people.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#56 » by jayu70 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:42 pm

dms269 wrote:I am curious where is John expecting to go where he will be the primary person and not have to deal with a guy who wants to take all the shots?

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John has never indicated he wants to be the focus or primary person, never - wether here or elsewhere. He wants to be more involved, yes. Example: JC had 4 shot attempts in the 1st quarter, 1 in the 2nd, 1 in the 3rd and 1 in the 4th....that's just not enough attempts particularly when the shooting from 3 is so abysmal.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#57 » by D21 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:35 am

I said it last season : it was set to happen because we didn't have a roster full enough to avoid having young guys putting high individual stats in a loosing team.
Better have some veterans who can play a bit to play the young guys in a team full enough to match a contender roster, even if talent is lower.
Is written that once the roster would be build to be a playoffs team, and even more like a contender, that John would get less touches, especially if a good C playing inside was added because Trae would give him the ball too.

The thing that had to be fixed is that the coach has to make Trae not being upset by this, and convince John that he will get a higher offer if they win, not that if he's getting the same stats from last season and they are not winning.

shakes0 wrote:...JC wouldn't take $90 million. Would he have taken $100 million? Is it really worth saving $10 million to risk messing up an entire season where we are expected to make a run at a decent playoff seed?...

Yes, they should have offer a bit more, more than 100M because it's a psychological barrier.
I thought he should not get more than Sabonis, but would have been OK for a bit more if it was a decreasing contract.

myrak433 wrote:I believe in order for JC max to be 132M he had to be named to an All-Star team, or a All-NBA team twice, or been the MVP. JC has not done any of that so his max would be 25% of the cap (anually) which is 108M (now I am guessing). so a max for JC would be about 100M (104M) for 4 years.

If I'm not wrong, his Max was the same than Mitchell or Fox, so 163M/5yrs
The increased amount coming from All-Star or All NBA teams make it even higher (NBA first team, deal goes to $196 million, second NBA team, $183 million, third NBA team $170 million).

myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.

I'm not agreeing at all, they are the kind of player that scores, but didn't prove anything about winning. They are bad in team defense, more than they're good in offense
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#58 » by myrak433 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:15 am

D21 wrote:I said it last season : it was set to happen because we didn't have a roster full enough to avoid having young guys putting high individual stats in a loosing team.
Better have some veterans who can play a bit to play the young guys in a team full enough to match a contender roster, even if talent is lower.
Is written that once the roster would be build to be a playoffs team, and even more like a contender, that John would get less touches, especially if a good C playing inside was added because Trae would give him the ball too.

The thing that had to be fixed is that the coach has to make Trae not being upset by this, and convince John that he will get a higher offer if they win, not that if he's getting the same stats from last season and they are not winning.

shakes0 wrote:...JC wouldn't take $90 million. Would he have taken $100 million? Is it really worth saving $10 million to risk messing up an entire season where we are expected to make a run at a decent playoff seed?...

Yes, they should have offer a bit more, more than 100M because it's a psychological barrier.
I thought he should not get more than Sabonis, but would have been OK for a bit more if it was a decreasing contract.

myrak433 wrote:I believe in order for JC max to be 132M he had to be named to an All-Star team, or a All-NBA team twice, or been the MVP. JC has not done any of that so his max would be 25% of the cap (anually) which is 108M (now I am guessing). so a max for JC would be about 100M (104M) for 4 years.

If I'm not wrong, his Max was the same than Mitchell or Fox, so 163M/5yrs
The increased amount coming from All-Star or All NBA teams make it even higher (NBA first team, deal goes to $196 million, second NBA team, $183 million, third NBA team $170 million).

myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.

I'm not agreeing at all, they are the kind of player that scores, but didn't prove anything about winning. They are bad in team defense, more than they're good in offense


Mitchell has made and all-NBA team, was an all-star, and won the slam dunk contest once. So why would JC get the same contract as him?
December of 2019 “Trae Young Involved in 'Emotional' Locker Room Scene After Hawks Loss. Atlanta Hawks star Trae Young is unsurprisingly getting tired of the team's struggles.”

Get Trae some HELP!!!!
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#59 » by D21 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:57 am

myrak433 wrote:Mitchell has made and all-NBA team, was an all-star, and won the slam dunk contest once. So why would JC get the same contract as him?


Fox didn't make any All-Star appearance (like John) and got the same contract than Mitchell. All-Star is not a criteria.
The Bonus to go higher than 163M/5yrs is on future awards

Both are base on rookie Max extension of 25% of the cap, the only difference is :

Fox has in his contract :
All-NBA 3rd team: $169.5M (26%)
All-NBA 2nd team: $182.6M (28%)
All-NBA 1st team: $195.6M (30%)

Mitchell has :
No All-NBA: $163M (25%)
All-NBA: $195.6M (30%)
2025-26 is Player Option
15% Trade Kicker
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#60 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:12 am

Why ya'll talking max? I'mwondering if JC is worth the 4@90 Schlenk offered

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