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Trae vs John

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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#61 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:24 am

Jamaaliver wrote:Seems like our fanbase has decided to take sides in this so called rivalry. It’s not that big but f a deal. The offense lagged for a few games. During film review, the longest tenured Hawk spoke up about getting into our offense more quickly and getting other teammates involved.

These are good things people.


Not a good thing if it evolves into a chemistry issue.

Not a good thing if it pees off our best player and one of the most dynamic scorers in the league.

My biggest question is where is the coach in all of this. I am coming to the conclusion that LP is not the coach to lead this young group. I think that a more proven coach would be able to maintain the lead role and keep the young guys in line.

I don't want Trae to become a diva that thinks he's the team, but I do want him to continue to develop as one of the top talents in the league.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#62 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:42 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:...the longest tenured Hawk spoke up about getting into our offense more quickly and getting other teammates involved.

These are good things people.


Not a good thing if it evolves into a chemistry issue.

Not a good thing if it pees off our best player and one of the most dynamic scorers in the league.



It's worse if our players amd staff are too afraid to speak truth to a 22 year old kid because we're afraid he might get his feelings hurt. If he wants to lead an offense, hell, lead a franchise -- he needs to learn to take constructive criticism.

That's a pretty important facet for every young man to learn. Especially millionaires in their mid-20s.

It isn't Pierce or Collins's job to kiss TY's butt. Kid needs to grow up.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#63 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:09 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:...the longest tenured Hawk spoke up about getting into our offense more quickly and getting other teammates involved.

These are good things people.


Not a good thing if it evolves into a chemistry issue.

Not a good thing if it pees off our best player and one of the most dynamic scorers in the league.



It's worse if our players amd staff are too afraid to speak truth to a 22 year old kid because we're afraid he might get his feelings hurt. If he wants to lead an offense, hell, lead a franchise -- he needs to learn to take constructive criticism.

That's a pretty important facet for every young man to learn. Especially millionaires in their mid-20s.

It isn't Pierce or Collins's job to kiss TY's butt. Kid needs to grow up.


Collins is a player, not the coach. There lies the whole problem. Don't want an Animal Farm thing going on.

Funny that you only quoted part of my post and omitted the sentence where I said that I didn't want Trae to be a diva. Kind of makes it look like you're mis-representing my statement
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#64 » by jayu70 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:32 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:
Not a good thing if it evolves into a chemistry issue.

Not a good thing if it pees off our best player and one of the most dynamic scorers in the league.



It's worse if our players amd staff are too afraid to speak truth to a 22 year old kid because we're afraid he might get his feelings hurt. If he wants to lead an offense, hell, lead a franchise -- he needs to learn to take constructive criticism.

That's a pretty important facet for every young man to learn. Especially millionaires in their mid-20s.

It isn't Pierce or Collins's job to kiss TY's butt. Kid needs to grow up.


Collins is a player, not the coach. There lies the whole problem. Don't want an Animal Farm thing going on.

Funny that you only quoted part of my post and omitted the sentence where I said that I didn't want Trae to be a diva. Kind of makes it look like you're mis-representing my statement

It's during a film session where players are EXPECTED to speak up.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#65 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:58 pm

I'm more interested in the solution than the problem. The situation clearly affected the team. I don't care if Trae is being a childish diva or if JC is mad because he doesn't have a contract and his numbers are down. Nip this crap in the bud and get them playing like a team. Find a way to exploit all of the talent.

I'm going to continue to point the finger at Pierce. His job is to put in place the system to exploit the talent and to be the leader. He should be the one to have the final word. Unfortuneately, he and Trae seem to be on in conflict. If there is an irrepairable situation betwen them, who should go?
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#66 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:09 pm

I find the timing of the problem interesting. Hawks start the year strong and Trae is clearly carrying the team. MVP talk. Suddenly this thing blows up and the Hawks are playing like one of the worst teams.

I'm not into taking sides. I don't fall in love with players. I like the Hawks. If players are causing problems then we need solutions. That's on the players, but also on the coach.

Trae's Dad has been publicly calling out Pierce since Pierce made that stupid team USA Trae snub comment. JC calls out Trae and suddenly the team is in chaos. Maybe Trae is unhappy that the coach and JC don't have his back. Just speculation
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#67 » by jayu70 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:43 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:I'm more interested in the solution than the problem.

Well you can't have a solution without first stating the problem.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#68 » by jayu70 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:49 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:I find the timing of the problem interesting. Hawks start the year strong and Trae is clearly carrying the team. MVP talk. Suddenly this thing blows up and the Hawks are playing like one of the worst teams.
Timing:
The 2nd half collapse of the Cavs game which flowed into the Knicks game, also a 2nd half collapse...it was during the film session after the Knicks game that JC spoke.
If you can tell me the offense in those two games looked good compared to the previous games I'll shut up.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#69 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:58 pm

I don't understand the discussion here and why people seem to be disagreeing with me. My position is that Trae needs to be a good PG and get the team into the plays and keep things flowing. JC seems to think that that wasn't happening and spoke up. It didn't go well and communication seems to have broken down.

My position is that Trae needs to play team ball. I'm not pro Trae. JC needs to understand his role on the team and integrate it. Pierce needs to implement a system that works, get the players to buy in and be the voice that speaks above the others. Where am I wrong?
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#70 » by CP War Hawks » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:23 pm

My position in all of this stems from Collins' contract issue affecting the team. Young could get guys better involved... sure. Defense will always be the main issue with this team, and they don't seem to be addressing that by the way the Bobcats ran through them.

It's way too many guys who are just strictly role players offensively on this team. Gallo is sorely missed, who I'd consider a non role offensive player that can score on 3 levels but even then he's aging poorly and can't be counted on to be more than bench depth.

They need to consolidate some pieces for a guy with some offensive gravity that can take pressure off the team. Any club with multiple ballhandlers like the Bobcats will continue to give the Hawks trouble until atleast we get the defensive stoppers back. With that, I can't see how this lineup won't get much run considering how poorly they contain teams with an offensive pulse.

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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#71 » by jayu70 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:27 am

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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#72 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:12 am

Suns fan here. Hypothetically, how would you guys feel about a Collins for Ayton swap?

Ayton is a better defender than Collins for sure but I’ll be honest, he’s not as good offensively.

Looks like you guys have enough offensive weapons though even without JC so defense should be prioritized more.

Big fan of Trae btw and I root for Hawks to do well because of him.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#73 » by D21 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:57 am

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Why ya'll talking max? I'mwondering if JC is worth the 4@90 Schlenk offered


Because it's important to know how much ATL could offer to see this 90M/4 was on a scale.
And if you think that he's was offered 90/4 with a max offer being 125/5, it's different than 90/4 with a max offer being 163/5

That's why I thought that 100M was a psychological barrier for him, even if I still think he's worth Sabonis contract, not more.
If Sabonis and Brogdom have played in the same context than John and Trae last season (with bad veterans, except Vince, and a lot of rookies/young guys), they would also have got higher individual stats than what they got, but strangely, IND has them to contracts that seems to benefit both players and the team, so I hope ATL and John can find a way to agree on that and find a good offer for both.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#74 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:18 pm

Revived wrote:Suns fan here. Hypothetically, how would you guys feel about a Collins for Ayton swap?

Ayton is a better defender than Collins for sure but I’ll be honest, he’s not as good offensively.

Looks like you guys have enough offensive weapons though even without JC so defense should be prioritized more.



That's not a terrible trade offer for Atlanta. I'd think our team would at least have to consider it.

NOTE: You might be underestimating Collins' team defense, but the overall point is a good one.
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Re: Trae vs John 

Post#75 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 pm

Ranking the NBA's Top 10 Duos Under 25

8. Trae Young (22) and John Collins (23), Atlanta Hawks

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Luka Doncic, LeBron James and Shaquille O'Neal have the three highest offensive box plus/minus figures over the first two years of their careers. Trae Young is fourth.

Young's willingness to fire from long range off the dribble, genius in-between craft, keen passing eye and highly developed foul-baiting make him an offense unto himself. John Collins is also a nightmare to cover for opposing bigs, few of whom have the quickness to stick with him on the perimeter and the heft to keep him from finishing inside.

Collins and Karl-Anthony Towns were the only players to average over 20 points and 10 rebounds while shooting at least 40 percent from deep in 2019-20.

Atlanta Hawks lineups featuring both Young and Collins have absolutely obliterated opponents this year, running up a blistering plus-20.0 net rating in the early going.

Defense is a concern for both players, more so for Collins, a classic 4-5 tweener who has yet to prove he's capable of surviving on the perimeter or as a primary rim protector. It's also worrisome that these two may not be on the best terms.

Collins, who could leave in restricted free agency after failing to agree on an extension, might make this a short-lived pairing. Enjoy it while it lasts.
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