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Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach

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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#81 » by tbhawksfan1 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 4:52 pm

jayu70 wrote:
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Meanwhile, time was quickly becoming of the essence. With the smashed-together schedule of this season offering few real opportunities for practice or major strategic shifts, the upcoming week off during the All-Star break provides the only real opportunity for a new coach to get some traction. I suspect Minnesota was compelled by similar logic. I also won’t be shocked at all if this is the last coaching change until May because there is just no opportunity for a new coach to get rolling once most of the league tips off the second half on March 11.

Nonetheless, it’s amazing to look at this season and see how much of this was mostly or fully beyond Pierce’s control. The Hawks went all-in for the playoffs by signing Kris Dunn, who hasn’t played a game, and Bogdan Bogdanovic, who is also injured, and Rajon Rondo, who might be the worst backup point guard in the league, and Danilo Gallinari, who has been the walking definition of toast. Is it any surprise, then, that they’ve been a disappointment?

Even the successes turned sour. The Hawks did a great job developing De’Andre Hunter, who was a strong candidate for Most Improved Player, and then he got hurt too. Atlanta has been so denuded by injuries and ineffectiveness that Solomon Hill, with his 7.0 PER, has become someone they count on. Subtract all the injured or ineffective additions, and these Hawks basically end up with last year’s 20-47 team plus Capela, which largely explains how a

The clock has now started ticking on this front office, led by general manager Travis Schlenk.

The Hawks’ mandate to make the playoffs this year precipitated a torrent of spending that has largely proven fruitless, as noted above, and while the injuries to Dunn and Bogdanovic were unfortunate, the Rondo and Gallinari additions have been clear failures.

Moreover, the depth pieces just aren’t there; there haven’t been any crafty minimum or low-dollar exception guys making up for the disappointments elsewhere. Look at Atlanta’s roster this season: six of the 11 players with at least 250 minutes played have a PER of 10.0 or below. Minor injuries or foul trouble have an outsized impact because the second-line players have been found so clearly wanting.

With all that said, interim coach Nate McMillan inherits some basic nuts-and-bolts of a good team as he tries to salvage at least a play-in spot, and the rest of the East isn’t exactly running away from them.

Nonetheless, the trade deadline looms and some important decisions are right on the horizon. Schlenk may only have one more offseason to get this right, and he has a lot of questions to answer in this second half of the season.

Is John Collins part of the future? If so, is he worth a likely max contract? If not, can they trade him for something that they like better?Is the sixth overall pick, center Onyeka Okongwu, any good? If so, might they play him in a game at some point?Can they swing a trade or signing that finally addresses the carnage at backup point guard?Can they salvage something from Gallinari and limit his exposure on defense?Is McMillan part of the solution going forward, or a mere stopgap before the Hawks open a full coaching search this summer?

Figuring out the answers to those questions and similar ones (while we’re here, what’s up with Kevin Huerter?) over the next 12 months will likely define the future for the Schlenk regime. For now, we can say that if the Hawks weren’t all-in on their coach in the first place, they probably would have been better served doing this sooner and bringing in their first choice.




Hate this take. First he says that it's not Pierce's fault, bad team too many injuries, then he says that Nate will have good pieces to work with. This team was tanking and I say it's on Pierce. Too much talent for things to go so bad.

Nate is about to show how good this team can be and the players are going to get back to normal now that the problem has been removed.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#82 » by jayu70 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 4:58 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:


Hate this take. First he says that it's not Pierce's fault, bad team too many injuries, then he says that Nate will have good pieces to work with. This team was tanking and I say it's on Pierce. Too much talent for things to go so bad.

Nate is about to show how good this team can be and the players are going to get back to normal now that the problem has been removed.[/quote]
He said Nate had nuts and bolts to work with - I am assuming that also entails having the injured guys return - starting with Bogi tonight and hopefully Reddish immediately after the break. Hunter and Dunn will be later.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#83 » by kg01 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 5:26 pm

Hawks will end the season well and it'll have absolutely nothing to do with the coach. It'll be because the injured guys return. Makes the weird timing make sense. Didn't want Pierce to benefit from the guys coming back.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#84 » by tbhawksfan1 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 5:52 pm

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:


Hate this take. First he says that it's not Pierce's fault, bad team too many injuries, then he says that Nate will have good pieces to work with. This team was tanking and I say it's on Pierce. Too much talent for things to go so bad.

Nate is about to show how good this team can be and the players are going to get back to normal now that the problem has been removed.

He said Nate had nuts and bolts to work with - I am assuming that also entails having the injured guys return - starting with Bogi tonight and hopefully Reddish immediately after the break. Hunter and Dunn will be later.[/quote]

Thing is that even with all the injuries the Hawks have had plenty to work with with Trae, JC, Cap and whoever else was available. We all hate the injuries and yes things should get better as health returns. Injuries were not the only problem
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#85 » by jayu70 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 6:02 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:


Hate this take. First he says that it's not Pierce's fault, bad team too many injuries, then he says that Nate will have good pieces to work with. This team was tanking and I say it's on Pierce. Too much talent for things to go so bad.

Nate is about to show how good this team can be and the players are going to get back to normal now that the problem has been removed.

He said Nate had nuts and bolts to work with - I am assuming that also entails having the injured guys return - starting with Bogi tonight and hopefully Reddish immediately after the break. Hunter and Dunn will be later.


Thing is that even with all the injuries the Hawks have had plenty to work with with Trae, JC, Cap and whoever else was available. We all hate the injuries and yes things should get better as health returns. Injuries were not the only problem[/quote]
I agree the 4th quarter meltdowns and particularly the rotations were an issue. That is on Lloyd but some of the other stuff just isn't.
The players bear some of that responsibility in not executing a play or hitting a WIDE open shot (Heurter for example had a WIDE OPEN 3 last game with 2 minutes left to cut the lead to 2, the bench gave us 6 points). Yes we have Trae, JC and Capela and of that trio only one can defend and only one can create offense their own with any consistency. We are depending on Snell and Hill as wings to defend point of attack guards because we miss Hunter and Reddish. That just cannot be discounted as a throwaway.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#86 » by jayu70 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 6:17 pm

The juicy behind the scenes stuff:
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Coach Lloyd Pierce and all the Hawks returnees would meet for team-bonding time, with all sorts of activities planned that he hoped would aid their chemistry heading into a season they all knew would be pressure-packed. There was pick-up basketball against other NBA players, a boxing class where they squared off against one another and group dinners where topics included, among other things, the upcoming election.

But the real headliner event took place when Pierce and Trae Young met privately to discuss their upcoming third year together. At that point, anyone and everyone around the Hawks organization was well aware the relationship between these two key figures was strained.

If the Hawks were going to make the playoffs this season and contend, if they were going to avoid delays to accomplishing their shared goals, they would have to make this pairing work. Sources say they ended the trip on good terms and had a better understanding of how they each could make this work for the long term.

But in the end — after old tensions between Pierce and Young resurfaced, other players grew frustrated with Pierce’s style and owner Tony Ressler’s desperate desire to make the playoffs added so much pressure to the situation — it was not to be. Those plans Pierce and Young had hatched in Southern California officially fell short Monday when the underperforming Hawks (14-20) announced that Pierce had been relieved of his duties.

Spoiler:
As this season progressed, the goodwill that Pierce and Young had re-established would dissipate, and the friction between them would return. It became apparent that Young and Pierce were not going to be a match that was sustainable for long-term success.

But Young was hardly alone here. Sources say player support beyond Young was dwindling at the end, with several sharing their desire for a change with management recently. Still, the difficult dynamic between Young and Pierce was an undeniable factor in Pierce’s downfall and a tone-setter of sorts for the group at large.
Pierce took the tough love approach with Young from Day 1, opting to push him hard as a way of maximizing his celebrated talent. But Young, who had inspired so much hype during his time coming up in (and at) Oklahoma, often pushed back against Pierce’s style. John Collins could relate.

Pierce made a public comment two seasons ago about not running plays for Collins, and it rubbed the Hawks big man the wrong way. Collins went to Pierce about his issue with the statement, but Pierce, sources say, turned around and called Collins’ approach selfish in wanting to have a more defined role on the team. Over time, the residue from these types of situations remained.

Cam Reddish was among those, sources said, who also had an issue with Pierce’s coaching. Sources said Reddish felt like he was being “picked on” behind the scenes when it came to mistakes the second-year player made. There are a few players on the Hawks’ roster who feel like Reddish’s potential is higher than anyone on the roster but that Pierce’s input was stunting his development.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#87 » by kg01 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 8:20 pm

Oh man, @jamallo. You're in for a dilemma. Do you revel in Kirschner's report of drama under Pierce or do you keep trashing him as a reporter? Decisions, decisions ...
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach  

Post#88 » by HMFFL » Tue Mar 2, 2021 9:36 pm

Sarah K. Spencer: Nate McMillan on the locker room: “A lot of these guys had close relationships with coach (Pierce), and I know it’s tough on them, because it’s tough on me. It’s tough on this coaching staff… The atmosphere, guys were a little quiet.”

 

– via Twitter sarah_k_spence



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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#89 » by atlantabbq99 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:02 am

This is a great move by the Hawks. Lloyd is one of the worst coaches in all pro sports

I have hated LP since he was with the Sixers. He was never able to help or develop any of the young Sixers' players, same thing happen in Atlanta.

LP can't teach, and he is a pouty, whinie, immature coach, who can't teach and loves to have hissy fits and throw his players under the bus.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#90 » by jayu70 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:36 am

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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#91 » by HMFFL » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:54 am

atlantabbq99 wrote:This is a great move by the Hawks. Lloyd is one of the worst coaches in all pro sports

I have hated LP since he was with the Sixers. He was never able to help or develop any of the young Sixers' players, same thing happen in Atlanta.

LP can't teach, and he is a pouty, whinie, immature coach, who can't teach and loves to have hissy fits and throw his players under the bus.
Huge symptom party for Pierce from other Coaches. Rick Carlisie taking it to places that it should have never gone. Rick knows his team can't sign star talent or quality players in free agency so it seems like he has a weird agenda. He also doesn't believe his tea needs help rebounding.

In the past Dwane Casey won coach of the year with Toronto and was fired the same off-season. I didn't hear many Coaches vocally supporting him or trying to put a bad name on Toronto. I think I was more pissed off about Casey being fired in Toronto, but sometimes it's not the right fit, and Toronto has proven that.

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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#92 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Mar 3, 2021 4:19 am

kg01 wrote:Oh man, @jamallo. You're in for a dilemma. Do you revel in Kirschner's report of drama under Pierce or do you keep trashing him as a reporter? Decisions, decisions ...



Jesus Christ, kg.

You gotta find a new punching bag, man.

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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#93 » by tbhawksfan1 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 10:22 am

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Hate this take. First he says that it's not Pierce's fault, bad team too many injuries, then he says that Nate will have good pieces to work with. This team was tanking and I say it's on Pierce. Too much talent for things to go so bad.

Nate is about to show how good this team can be and the players are going to get back to normal now that the problem has been removed.

He said Nate had nuts and bolts to work with - I am assuming that also entails having the injured guys return - starting with Bogi tonight and hopefully Reddish immediately after the break. Hunter and Dunn will be later.


Thing is that even with all the injuries the Hawks have had plenty to work with with Trae, JC, Cap and whoever else was available. We all hate the injuries and yes things should get better as health returns. Injuries were not the only problem

I agree the 4th quarter meltdowns and particularly the rotations were an issue. That is on Lloyd but some of the other stuff just isn't.
The players bear some of that responsibility in not executing a play or hitting a WIDE open shot (Heurter for example had a WIDE OPEN 3 last game with 2 minutes left to cut the lead to 2, the bench gave us 6 points). Yes we have Trae, JC and Capela and of that trio only one can defend and only one can create offense their own with any consistency. We are depending on Snell and Hill as wings to defend point of attack guards because we miss Hunter and Reddish. That just cannot be discounted as a throwaway.[/quote]

I'm not throwing anything away. Want to have a friendly bet that Nate gets way more out of the team the rest of the season and that guys that have been under performing start to look better. It has clearly come out that there was big chemistry issues between coach P and multiple players. Pierce being a rookie coach and coming in with that tough love junk was foolish. Even if he wanted to be all tough love, he could have for example, when Trae didn't get selected for team USA said something like... I'm surprised that they didn't choose to select Trae, but I'm sure it will be the last time that that happens.... too easy

He was not just tough love, he was throw em under the bus crap
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#94 » by kg01 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 2:20 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
kg01 wrote:Oh man, @jamallo. You're in for a dilemma. Do you revel in Kirschner's report of drama under Pierce or do you keep trashing him as a reporter? Decisions, decisions ...



Jesus Christ, kg.

You gotta find a new punching bag, man.


Be fair. I'm not digging up years old posts from you to phantom 'like' them. There's blood on both our hands at this point.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#95 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:28 pm

kg01 wrote:Oh man, @jamallo. You're in for a dilemma. Do you revel in Kirschner's report of drama under Pierce or do you keep trashing him as a reporter?

Be fair. I'm not digging up years old posts from you to phantom 'like' them. There's blood on both our hands at this point.



I'm honestly not sure what this is. But I legit love the coverage from The Athletic. I quote their work and Chris Kirchner's articles literally all the time. I wouldn't pay as much as I do for site access if I wasn't a fan. Kirschner is easily the best Hawks Beat writer since Mike Cunningham.

I wasn't very emotional over Lloyd's diminishing returns or firing because I always viewed him as a short term/bridge coach. I'm disappointed the way the organization executed it, though.

But the reports of locker room dysfunction under his watch is truly disappointing and extremely surprising. I knew Trae didn't mesh well with him, but Collins and Cam's issues with Lloyd are new to me. It could explain Cam's disappointing play of late.

I'm hopeful the next FT Head Coach hire is the guy who's here for a decade.

But even Lloyd was on record saying that someday he was gonna be fired. It was always the most likely ending. I simply recognized it 2+ years ago. And that seems to invite derision for some reason.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#96 » by kg01 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:34 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
kg01 wrote:Oh man, @jamallo. You're in for a dilemma. Do you revel in Kirschner's report of drama under Pierce or do you keep trashing him as a reporter?

Be fair. I'm not digging up years old posts from you to phantom 'like' them. There's blood on both our hands at this point.



I'm honestly not sure what this is. But I legit love the coverage from The Athletic. I quote their work and Chris Kirchner's articles literally all the time. I wouldn't pay as much as I do for site access if I wasn't a fan. Kirschner is easily the best Hawks Beat writer since Mike Cunningham.

I wasn't very emotional over Lloyd's diminishing returns or firing because I always viewed him as a short term/bridge coach. I'm disappointed the way the organization executed it, though.

But the reports of locker room dysfunction under his watch is truly disappointing and extremely surprising. I knew Trae didn't mesh well with him, but Collins and Cam's issues with Lloyd are new to me. It could explain Cam's disappointing play of late.

I'm hopeful the next FT Head Coach hire is the guy who's here for a decade.

But even Lloyd was on record saying that someday he was gonna be fired. It was always the most likely ending. I simply recognized it 2+ years ago. And that seems to invite derision for some reason.


I'll state here what I stated elsewhere. Coaches are hired to be fired in the NBA with very few exceptions. Suggesting a coach will be fired is not insightful or even meaningful. It's just words. My issue is when people try to act like they've stumbled upon something everyone else doesn't see yet.

I could say right now that the next coach is going to lose his job. If it happens, all that means is that the calendar progressed from one day to the next.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#97 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:41 pm

kg01 wrote:I'll state here what I stated elsewhere. Coaches are hired to be fired in the NBA with very few exceptions. Suggesting a coach will be fired is not insightful or even meaningful. It's just words. My issue is when people try to act like they've stumbled upon something everyone else doesn't see yet.

I could say right now that the next coach is going to lose his job. If it happens, all that means is that the calendar progressed from one day to the next.




Then I'll make another bold prediction that'll likely get me even more derision.

I don't believe Nate McMillan will get/take the gig full time. So Travis Schlenk's next coaching hire will be THE GUY -- the one who takes us to contending status. Travis's job depends on it. Hell, his legacy and reputation around the NBA depend on it.

And he's going to nail it.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#98 » by Spud2nique » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:47 pm

Pierce was in over his head. Even the timely manner in which Nate called timeouts yesterday showed that he was a vet coach and played in the NBA and understands it. Lloyd was in over his head. When you are rebuilding a team like we did the initial coach never lasts anyways. Give me a situation where a coach lasted through a rebuild and had success down the line with the same initial team? None. You’d probably have to go back to the 50’s when teams didn’t change head coaches as often anyways.

Lloyd was Schlenk’s friend and he gave him a chance knowing it’s a short window. I will say that Lloyd wasn’t commanding any respect from the players or they were just scared he would take their minutes away. The team played with heart and unity last night.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#99 » by Spud2nique » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:52 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
kg01 wrote:I'll state here what I stated elsewhere. Coaches are hired to be fired in the NBA with very few exceptions. Suggesting a coach will be fired is not insightful or even meaningful. It's just words. My issue is when people try to act like they've stumbled upon something everyone else doesn't see yet.

I could say right now that the next coach is going to lose his job. If it happens, all that means is that the calendar progressed from one day to the next.





Let’s not act like GM’s don’t have massive ego’s. It’s one of the few ways they build their own resumes, the infamous coaching hire.


Then I'll make another bold prediction that'll likely get me even more derision.

I don't believe Nate McMillan will get/take the gig full time. So Travis Schlenk's next coaching hire will be THE GUY -- the one who takes us to contending status. Travis's job depends on it. Hell, his legacy and reputation around the NBA depend on it.

And he's going to nail it.


Yup. I agree with this. The only way Nate keeps his job is if we make the playoffs and possibly take a team to the limit or even upset them. Otherwise Schlenk is coming in with a huge name like Dantoni or his own REAL guy Mark Jackson. Schlenk loves Mark Jackson the most as a coach available (if he’s available) and loves Draymond as his favorite player because he drafted him.
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Re: Hawks Dismiss Lloyd as Head Coach 

Post#100 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Mar 3, 2021 8:36 pm

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