Collins S&T Options

[saloonyk8]

Shams reporting the following teams interested in Collins. I think we should assume it's for the max roughly 4 years $120M.

So either we match or here's some players that MIGHT be involved:

Dallas - Brunson

Minnesota - Beasley?

San Antonio - Derrick White

Miami - Herro?

Any interest in these poo poo platters? My personal feeling would be just match and move him in a year of you need to because Hunter or Reddish blowing up

[jayu70]

Any interest in these poo poo platters?

As an aside -Dallas, San Antonio and Miami have the or are close to having the capspace to sign him outright. Minny would require a SnT

[saloonyk8]

Any interest in these poo poo platters?

As an aside -Dallas, San Antonio and Miami have the or are close to having the capspace to sign him outright. Minny would require a SnT

Yes but we can match regardless of the cap space. So purpose of the thread was out of those teams what do you ask for that you might get that makes it reasonable to let him walk rather than sign for the max

[jayu70]

Any interest in these poo poo platters?

As an aside -Dallas, San Antonio and Miami have the or are close to having the capspace to sign him outright. Minny would require a SnT

Yes but we can match regardless of the cap space. So purpose of the thread was out of those teams what do you ask for that you might get that makes it reasonable to let him walk rather than sign for the max

My point is - if teams can sign a player outright with capspace - Hawks won't get much of anything to 'ask' for. See the Malcolm Brogdon deal as an example - a low round 1st pick is what the Bucks received in that trade.

[saloonyk8]

Yes that's a good point. I would like to think Collins in year or even 6 months would be worth more than an expiring contract and first round pick (assuming 4/120)

[dms269]

Yes that's a good point. I would like to think Collins in year or even 6 months would be worth more than an expiring contract and first round pick (assuming 4/120)

You would hope, but I am not sure how many teams want to pay value plus $30 million a year for a guy whose stats indicate he is a role player at best (15-18 ppg, 7-8 rpg).

[CP War Hawks]

I have a notion OKC could get into the fray with all those draft picks...

I still have Minny with Rubio (fills need and expiring), Mcdaniels, and future 1st. Just sign him and figure it out later.

[shakes0]

I have a notion OKC could get into the fray with all those draft picks...

I still have Minny with Rubio (fills need and expiring), Mcdaniels, and future 1st. Just sign him and figure it out later.

I doubt OKC wants to start maxing guys this early in their rebuild. There's even stories that they are shopping SGA because he doesn't fit their timeline and he's younger and better than Collins.

[CP War Hawks]

I have a notion OKC could get into the fray with all those draft picks...

I still have Minny with Rubio (fills need and expiring), Mcdaniels, and future 1st. Just sign him and figure it out later.

I doubt OKC wants to start maxing guys this early in their rebuild. There's even stories that they are shopping SGA because he doesn't fit their timeline and he's younger and better than Collins.

I don't believe that at all. Probably writers trying to connect Cade to OKC since he played college there. It's not like OKC wouldn't use Collins in a 3 way deal.

[shakes0]

I have a notion OKC could get into the fray with all those draft picks...

I still have Minny with Rubio (fills need and expiring), Mcdaniels, and future 1st. Just sign him and figure it out later.

I doubt OKC wants to start maxing guys this early in their rebuild. There's even stories that they are shopping SGA because he doesn't fit their timeline and he's younger and better than Collins.

I don't believe that at all. Probably writers trying to connect Cade to OKC since he played college there. It's not like OKC wouldn't use Collins in a 3 way deal.

even if that rumor is BS, you really think OKC wants to max out a guy like Collins right now when they are sitting there with one keeper and 1000 draft picks? That makes no sense.

[Jamaaliver]

The actual excerpt from The Athletic:

Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.

Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and Minnesota are among the teams expected to show interest in Collins, believing he could be attainable as a restricted free agent, sources said. Hawks owner Tony Ressler said after the season that he hoped the team reached a “fair agreement” with Collins. Will the sides find that threshold?

[Jamaaliver]

Word is Dejounte Murray and Derrick White are both attainable in trade.

I'd be very onboard with getting either of these guys if we do a Sign-and-Trade with San Antonio.

[dms269]

The actual excerpt from The Athletic:

Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.

Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and Minnesota are among the teams expected to show interest in Collins, believing he could be attainable as a restricted free agent, sources said. Hawks owner Tony Ressler said after the season that he hoped the team reached a “fair agreement” with Collins. Will the sides find that threshold?

Kind of crazy that a guy who averaged 14/9 and was non-existent in many of the games is aax level player who could make over 30 a year. 2 million per point averaged.

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[Ball4life32]

Yes that's a good point. I would like to think Collins in year or even 6 months would be worth more than an expiring contract and first round pick (assuming 4/120)

You would hope, but I am not sure how many teams want to pay value plus $30 million a year for a guy whose stats indicate he is a role player at best (15-18 ppg, 7-8 rpg).

Hoe does Collins average 20-9 the last 3 years yet he tops out at potentially 15-7? He numbers dropped in the playoffs because he only had 17% usage (which imo none of the teams that would pay him max or close will give him that low of shots/touches) His lack of ball handling probably keeps him from ever being one of the top usage guys in the league though I still 18-8 range more as the low end.

17% usage would rank 278th in the league if it was during the regular season. Impossible to be a consistent scorer when you don’t get the shots. He’s usually at 22%-23% range during the regular season which still only puts him around 130th in the league.

[dms269]

Yes that's a good point. I would like to think Collins in year or even 6 months would be worth more than an expiring contract and first round pick (assuming 4/120)

You would hope, but I am not sure how many teams want to pay value plus $30 million a year for a guy whose stats indicate he is a role player at best (15-18 ppg, 7-8 rpg).

Hoe does Collins average 20-9 the last 3 years yet he tops out at potentially 15-7? He numbers dropped in the playoffs because he only had 17% usage (which imo none of the teams that would pay him max or close will give him that low of shots/touches) His lack of ball handling probably keeps him from ever being one of the top usage guys in the league though I still 18-8 range more as the low end.

17% usage would rank 278th in the league if it was during the regular season. Impossible to be a consistent scorer when you don’t get the shots. He’s usually at 22%-23% range during the regular season which still only puts him around 130th in the league.

If you are going to use his numbers from the past 3 years you have to provide context on them. His first season was on a team with a rookie Trae and no other scorer above 13.5 ppg. Last season was a half season sample size where once again, the production from other people was extremely low (no body else above 12.5 ppg). While John was the 2nd leading scorer this past season, we had 3 other players at 15 ppg or above. The conclusion that can be drawn is that while the players around him for getting better, John is not scaling up with them. He has to show that he is worthy of getting paid 30 million a year and he has not, especially this past season with better players around him. If he isn't getting touches in the playoffs we have to wonder why isn't Nate running plays for him or why aren't they getting him the ball.

I am not saying he won't give him the max, but rather that he isn't worth the max due to his production drop.

[Ball4life32]

You would hope, but I am not sure how many teams want to pay value plus $30 million a year for a guy whose stats indicate he is a role player at best (15-18 ppg, 7-8 rpg).

Hoe does Collins average 20-9 the last 3 years yet he tops out at potentially 15-7? He numbers dropped in the playoffs because he only had 17% usage (which imo none of the teams that would pay him max or close will give him that low of shots/touches) His lack of ball handling probably keeps him from ever being one of the top usage guys in the league though I still 18-8 range more as the low end.

17% usage would rank 278th in the league if it was during the regular season. Impossible to be a consistent scorer when you don’t get the shots. He’s usually at 22%-23% range during the regular season which still only puts him around 130th in the league.

If you are going to use his numbers from the past 3 years you have to provide context on them. His first season was on a team with a rookie Trae and no other scorer above 13.5 ppg. Last season was a half season sample size where once again, the production from other people was extremely low (no body else above 12.5 ppg). While John was the 2nd leading scorer this past season, we had 3 other players at 15 ppg or above. The conclusion that can be drawn is that while the players around him for getting better, John is not scaling up with them. He has to show that he is worthy of getting paid 30 million a year and he has not, especially this past season with better players around him. If he isn't getting touches in the playoffs we have to wonder why isn't Nate running plays for him or why aren't they getting him the ball.

I am not saying he won't give him the max, but rather that he isn't worth the max due to his production drop.

The context is his usage rate which hasn’t changed much in the last 3 years.

18-19
19.5 points per game on 63 TS% (23.7% usage)

19-20
21.6 points per game on 66 TS% (22.7% usage)

20-21
17.6 points per game on 64 TS% (22.2% usage)

Of course his minutes were down from last year which factors in but his numbers being down slightly in the RS had more to do with his role changing more than anything imo.

[Spud2nique]

These sign and trade options all blow. Keep JC. Keep the fam together.

[Jamaaliver]

So either we match or here's some players that MIGHT be involved:

Dallas - Brunson

Minnesota - Beasley?

San Antonio - Derrick White

Miami - Herro?

If we do a SnT with Minnesota, I'd think the return would be some combination of Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, Jarrett Culver and Jaden McDaniels.

The rest of those offerings seem pretty accurate.

3 reasons John Collins is the perfect frontcourt partner for Karl-Anthony Towns



Atlanta Hawks forward John Collins has emerged as one of the most sought-after talents in the Freaa Agent market. [T]he Minnesota Timberwolves already tried their luck in landing him at the trade deadline back in March. However, the Hawks decided to ride out the entire 2020-21 season with Collins which eventually paid off for them as they earned an Eastern Conference Finals stint before getting eliminated by the Milwaukee Bucks.

Despite their recent success, things would be different for the Atlanta-based squad as Collins is expected to demand a max contract extension to remain with the team next season. Set to become a restricted free agent in the offseason, many teams including the Timberwolves are expected to aggressively pursue Collins in a bid to advance their rebuilding efforts moving forward.

Here are three reasons why the 23-year-old is the perfect partner for Karl-Anthony Towns:

1. John Collins can step out and hit threes in pick and pop situations.
   
2. His athleticism would complement Towns’ low post game on offense.
   
3. John Collins is also an elite rebounder.

Clutch Points

[D21]

As an aside -Dallas, San Antonio and Miami have the or are close to having the capspace to sign him outright. Minny would require a SnT

Yes but we can match regardless of the cap space. So purpose of the thread was out of those teams what do you ask for that you might get that makes it reasonable to let him walk rather than sign for the max

My point is - if teams can sign a player outright with capspace - Hawks won't get much of anything to 'ask' for. See the Malcolm Brogdon deal as an example - a low round 1st pick is what the Bucks received in that trade.

Except MIL did it because they already have huge contract for Giannis and Middleton, so IND knew they would not match because they would have been in big luxury tax for years to come, which is not the case of ATL at all. There is no contract like that at this moment and for the next season
If several teams are ready to sign Collins for 4/120M, and ATL matches, be sure that in 22' summer, there will be teams ready to trade for him.
As long as Collins doesn't create a Luxury tax this coming season, I don't know why ATL would not match, unless they can a better team without matching.

[jayu70]

Yes but we can match regardless of the cap space. So purpose of the thread was out of those teams what do you ask for that you might get that makes it reasonable to let him walk rather than sign for the max

My point is - if teams can sign a player outright with capspace - Hawks won't get much of anything to 'ask' for. See the Malcolm Brogdon deal as an example - a low round 1st pick is what the Bucks received in that trade.

Except MIL did it because they already have huge contract for Giannis and Middleton, so IND knew they would not match because they would have been in big luxury tax for years to come, which is not the case of ATL at all. There is no contract like that at this moment and for the next season
If several teams are ready to sign Collins for 4/120M, and ATL matches, be sure that in 22' summer, there will be teams ready to trade for him.
As long as Collins doesn't create a Luxury tax this coming season, I don't know why ATL would not match, unless they can a better team without matching.

Hawks offered Snell and the OKC 1st to the Kings for Bogi in a SnT.
All I'm saying is SnT offers for RFAs are usually cannon fodder.