Joe Johnson

NDaATL · Post #61 » by **NDaATL** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 4:56 pm

Rip2137 wrote:I think there is a slight chance that what I predicted when he got traded here is starting to happen. Joe doesn't want anyone else to be the man besides him. I really feel that. I think Josh, Marvin and to a lesser extent Horford are getting alot more love than JJ as of late and that might be eating at him.

I said when he was traded. There is a 50/50 chance that he has matured, or he is the same guy that wanted the Suns to trade Penny Hardaway because he was playing too well as his backup.

That's just not true. Joe has lobbied for us to trade for other top players numerous times. He specifically mentioned Pau Gasol when he came up in trade rumors last season. He personally called Amare when we were talking trade with the Suns/Twolves. He's just sick of losing, but his teammates are definitely playing well enough for the playoffs this season. Joe really isn't playing any worse than last season, he just can't shoot for some reason. He's passing better, making less TO's, shooting a career high FT% and leading the NBA in minutes..

Rip2137 · Post #62 » by **Rip2137** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 7:30 pm

The problem is, all this "get me some help" stuff, its the team that needs his help right now, because they are going above and beyond what was actually expected of them and he isn't delivering. Yet his tone still seems to be that "I need some help" type of thing.

But I am bias I guess. I am not a Joe Johnson fan every since the Penny incident in Phoenix. Yet he got traded from my favorite team to my second favorite team. So I am stuck with him. I respect his game and all, but I will continue to question his psyche.

JoshB914 · Post #63 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 8:26 pm

As COB said, JJ has never been set up for success like this before. His supporting cast has been playing great, our vet PG has been serviceable (all we really need), and we have that low post presence in Horford we have always lacked. Yet he is playing the worst basketball of his career? Something is wrong with that picture.

If you told me before the season that:

1)Smoove would be driving the ball to the bucket and cutting down on the bad shooting
2) Marvin would be scoring well and averaging his best PPG of his career
3) AJ would take the job of starting PG and look legit
4) Horford would step in down low and give us around 10 RPG

I would tell you we are a #3 or #4 seed in the East. And you know why? Because I would have just assumed that JJ would continue to be Mr. Reliable. But something has changed with him this season. He doesn't seem like the same guy. Maybe he is scared of real success. Whatever it is, he is hurting the team and if we want to make the playoffs he needs to step up and start playing like Joe Johnson.

High 5 · Post #64 » by **High 5** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:07 pm

If and when his shot starts falling you guys will be all over him again and there won't be the slightest change in his game.

JoshB914 · Post #65 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:21 pm

I disagree. It's not just his jumper. His defense is also much worse, his leadership qualities appear to have gotten even worse than before, and he's not forcing the issue like he used to. He doesn't appear to expending the same effort he has been. And he is shooting 41% through 31 games, this is not a slump it's a trend. You're acting like this is just a bad spot for Joe, this is a legitimate problem that we're this far into the season and he is still awful when it comes to scoring.

conleyorbust · Post #66 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:24 pm

High 5 wrote:If and when his shot starts falling you guys will be all over him again and there won't be the slightest change in his game.

That is the point I think. Most guys who are scorers (as opposed to pure shooters) find a way to score when their shots aren't falling. They do this by taking advantage of the other things they do well, in Joe's case he is big and strong for a guard and he has a great handle, so he could attack the basket and get fouled or he could post up. He isn't a skywalker but he is reasonably quick and his strength and ball-handling will let him get by a defender without being picked. Joe hasn't really done this, he is still taking the high degree of difficulty fade-aways even when he has single coverage. People here are saying that if he got to the line a few more times a game and got those "easy" baskets, his confidence in his jumper would go up.

Also, a lot of people are upset (see rip's comment) that Joe was the one complaining about HIS lack of help but for long stretches of the season he hasn't been the most effective player on his own team. If he had been, we would be a really dangerous team.

Whether or not you think that Joe should be held responsible for making a change in his game to help the team is your call. You could be of the opinion that he signed a contract to be a good player but that doesn't mean he has more responsibility than anyone else. Personally, I think Joe is capable of more than he has shown this season. I think he'll get it back but he has to make some changes (take fewer 3s, attack more, post up, pass off and move around off the ball) if he wants to get back to form quickly.

El Hardee · Post #67 » by **El Hardee** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:11 am

Laker fan here, how would you guys feel about Farmar young promising PG, Kwame a big with 9 mil exp, and Luke Walton for JJ?

Post #68 » by **HMFFL** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:14 am

El Hardee wrote:Laker fan here, how would you guys feel about Farmar young promising PG, Kwame a big with 9 mil exp, and Luke Walton for JJ?

You would need to center a trade around Andrew Bynum.

El Hardee · Post #69 » by **El Hardee** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:42 pm

HMFFL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You would need to center a trade around Andrew Bynum.

Only if you threw in the Falcons,Braves, Lil Jon and Usher.

daoneandonly · Post #70 » by **daoneandonly** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:46 pm

I posted a 3 way on the trade board with Miami and Dallas, essentially you guys get Josh Howard and jason Williams (expiring) for Joe Johnson and Ty Lue, would that interest you?

JoshB914 · Post #71 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:49 pm

^^^ Yes. That would interest me quite a bit.

conleyorbust · Post #72 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:52 pm

JoshB914 wrote:^^^ Yes. That would interest me quite a bit.

Who plays shooting guard?

ATLfan · Post #73 » by **ATLfan** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:56 pm

Josh Howard would be the shooting guard.

NDaATL · Post #74 » by **NDaATL** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 10:55 pm

JJ is way better than Josh Howard, no thanks.

JoshB914 · Post #75 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 11:17 pm

NDaATL wrote:JJ is way better than Josh Howard, no thanks.

I completely disagree. Howard is a better player than JJ right now and he is younger.

ATLfan · Post #76 » by **ATLfan** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:05 am

Josh Howard is 27 and Joe is 26.

conleyorbust · Post #77 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:08 am

JoshB914 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I completely disagree. Howard is a better player than JJ right now and he is younger.

See ATLfan. Josh Howard is a great player but he isn't a 2-guard now or ever. Doesn't have the court awareness as a passer to handle the ball that much. If we wanted Howard we'd have to be able to move Marv for a guard or two.

JoshB914 · Post #78 » by **JoshB914** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:11 am

I think Howard can play the 2. He's listed as an F-G I don't see why he couldn't do it. And my bad on the ages I keep forgetting how young JJ is, but I still think J-Ho is a much better player.

ATLfan · Post #79 » by **ATLfan** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:14 am

That's fine wbout their ages and I agree with you that Josh Howard is the better player.

conleyorbust · Post #80 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:10 am

JoshB914 wrote:I think Howard can play the 2. He's listed as an F-G I don't see why he couldn't do it. And my bad on the ages I keep forgetting how young JJ is, but I still think J-Ho is a much better player.

Josh is a small forward and I don't think he could play guard full time because he has never actually played there. Especially not on a team like ours, Josh might be a better player than Joe this season but as far as an offensive threat goes, you can't trust Josh with the playmaking and shot-creating that you can trust Joe with.