Portland's Success This Year

[HMFFL]

Besides Brandon Roy why do you think Portland is 21-13? Try not to make this into a Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy thread.

Portland is 15-7 against the Western Conference and are among the hottest teams right now.

Steve Blake - Shooter
Brandon Roy - Does it all
Martell Webster - Let me shoot for you
LaMarcus Aldridge - 6'11/7 foot
Joel Przybilla - Defensive minded 7 footer

Channing Frye - 6'11/7 footer, rebounding well also
Travis Outlaw - Junkyard dog
Jarrett Jack - Solid depth
James Jones - Very productive

Greg Oden - Yes, I'm hurt and my team is still dominating the West.

Our Atlanta Hawks may have more talent and yet it's a difficult task for them to stay above .500. It could be due to our point guard situation, lack of defense against bigs or that we are undersized. Maybe it's coaching, so what do you think the reason for this is?

[JoshB914]

Well a big reason is Nate McMillian who is one of the best coaches in the league. Also, Brandon Roy has assumed the responsibility of being their star unlike JJ. They are tough, smart and confident. We are rarely these things.

[D21]

They have in James Jones a weapon we need.

[evildallas]

I think foremost is Kevin Pritchard, best GM in the league. His wheeling and dealing has them with a roster stocked with talent. Unlike most NBA GMs he's been willing to make moves. It's not just drafting Roy, it was all the moves to remake that roster.

They're young but they've got playmakers. Blake/Jack/Roy have made an effective 3 guard rotation. Webster/Outlaw/Jones have made a good swingman rotation that can shoot! Aldridge has been a revelation done low and Pryzbilla/Frye have given good minutes.

Coaching is plus with McMillan. He's good.

Also, give a nod to ownership. Paul Allen's deep pockets have helped their flexibility. They've been able to swallow LaFrentz big contract and make him a perpetual DNP. They've also been able to write off Darius Miles and exile him during his rehab. They were able to swallow Steve Francis's contract and move on with a buyout. Knowing that if he was on the roster it would hurt, not help the team.

[tontoz]

Pretty sad that we could have had Portlands best player but chose Shelden instead.

[Rip2137]

Yes, we could have had Portlands best player where he would have gotten 8-9 minutes per game behind the league leader in minutes.

i am kinda tired of people complaining about not getting Roy. When you have a max contract at a position, you might not want to draft that position again knowing full well the player won't get any PT.

[plusjay]

Yes, we could have had Portlands best player where he would have gotten 8-9 minutes per game behind the league leader in minutes.

i am kinda tired of people complaining about not getting Roy. When you have a max contract at a position, you might not want to draft that position again knowing full well the player won't get any PT.

roy looks pretty good at the point right now..
i would rather have him than AJ for sure..

[HoopsGuru25]

Portland owned Boston and Chicago in 2006. They haven't been given enough credit for flipping Telfair into Roy and that Chicago liked Tyrus Thomas more than Aldridge(which was a big mistake). They also got rid of Randolph which helped team chemistry and ball movement.

[HoopsGuru25]

Yes, we could have had Portlands best player where he would have gotten 8-9 minutes per game behind the league leader in minutes.

i am kinda tired of people complaining about not getting Roy. When you have a max contract at a position, you might not want to draft that position again knowing full well the player won't get any PT.

Roy and Foye were clearly the best players available when we picked regardless of what position they played...if we wanted to fill a need we should have traded down and taken Marcus Williams or Rajon Rondo...instead BK reached on some one who wasn't the BPA and didn't fill our biggest need at PG. There was no excuse for taking Shelden.

With your logic...Miami should have taken Chris Kaman or Kirk Hinrich instead of Dwyane Wade(a SG like Roy) since they had Eddie Jones and Caron Butler on the Wings

[killbuckner]

I think that when you are a bad team you need to take the BPA and just add as much talent as possible. Bypassing the more valuable player to fit your biggest need is what you do when you are CLOSE- not when you are still building. And as far as the marvin/paul thing goes, all that means is that if the BPA actually plays the position you need filled the most and you weren't able to see it then it just makes you look awfully incompetent. The problem wasn't taking the BPA, it was passing over the BPA who filled a need as well.

[JoshB914]

Roy can play PG. He would have definetely gotten PT and him and JJ would make a sick backcourt tandem.

[tontoz]

Yes, we could have had Portlands best player where he would have gotten 8-9 minutes per game behind the league leader in minutes.

i am kinda tired of people complaining about not getting Roy. When you have a max contract at a position, you might not want to draft that position again knowing full well the player won't get any PT.

Yeah Childress has so much trouble getting playing time behind JJ.

JJ can just as easily play the 3. He is just as tall as Smith and Marvin, not to mention stronger than both.

We could have traded Childress. He probably won't be here next year anyway.

considering Shelden is playing only 13 mpg and played only 18 mpg last year i am having a hard time seeing your logic.

[conleyorbust]

Well rounded team with good depth at every position and good chemistry. How many games have we lost because the other team is just better than us? Probably as many as Portland but when you play well as a team and have good consistency, the ball just bounces your way.

[Rip2137]

-= original quote snipped =-


Roy and Foye were clearly the best players available when we picked regardless of what position they played...if we wanted to fill a need we should have traded down and taken Marcus Williams or Rajon Rondo...instead BK reached on some one who wasn't the BPA and didn't fill our biggest need at PG. There was no excuse for taking Shelden.

With your logic...Miami should have taken Chris Kaman or Kirk Hinrich instead of Dwyane Wade(a SG like Roy) since they had Eddie Jones and Caron Butler on the Wings

Thats not slightly "my logic". Brandon Roys game is Joe Johnsons game. There are little to no differences between the two players, only Roy drives alot more than JJ (this year...JJ seems to be settling more. You have a max contract. You don't draft a player at the same position with the same skill set as your franchise guy. A: Eddie Jones wasn't a franchise guys and B: Doesn't have the same skillset as Wade. A proper comparison would be if Milwalkee got a lottery pick and went after a jump shooting two guard. Or if Dallas got a top pick and went after a 7 foot, jumpshooting, no post game having bad defensively Power forward. BK problem with drafting sheldon was the fact he could have been had later so he should have traded that 5th pick for 9-10 and gotten sheldon there and some more help. They also had just signed Speedy Claxon to be the starting point guard, and you know this organizations love for Tyronne Lue as the backup, so that was supposed to fill the PG need. Then his knee went to crap.

Taking Roy would have made no sense and would have been a waste of a pick on both sides as Roy wouldn't have been able to dominate the ball here like he needs to do to be the great player he is now and Atlanta would have been run in the ground when Sheldon would have gone to another team and lead Rookies in Double Doubles so people would be complaining about how we needed a rebounding, scoring big and we gave it up in Sheldon Williams for Brandon Roy who would have been the oft injured backup shooting guard, regulated to becoming a catch and shoot player in this "offense". And you might say that Woody would see the guys talent and play him at the point and so on and so forth, but right now, Woody doesn't play Mario West to slow down scoring guards, he doesn't play salim to spread the court, he doesn't run plays that feature Smith on the block(smith usually just backs it down himself), he doesn't feature Al Horford in the post to establish any type of inside presence and he still doesn't run the screen and roll with marvin williams and Joe Johnson (thus making the D leave our most consistant mid-range shooter open or playing JJ straight up), so what would make you think Brandon Roy's unique to his position talents would be utilized as a backup to the franchise player?

The answer to this thread is simple. Nate McMillian is one of the best coaches in the NBA. We have arguably the worse coach in the NBA. That is the difference between the two teams. Nates offense works perfectly for his teams because he looks at what he has and utilizes it to the best of his ability. Woody substitutes on a schedule and pulls a hot guy from the court of breaks up a hot combination of players because it is simply their time to come off the court.

[JoshB914]

To be fair we had not signed Speedy yet. I definetely think Roy and JJ could succeed as a backcourt tandem. And if it wasn't working we could shop JJ and get the true point guard (and a good one at that) that we need.

[HoopsGuru25]

Thats not slightly "my logic". Brandon Roys game is Joe Johnsons game. There are little to no differences between the two players, only Roy drives alot more than JJ (this year...JJ seems to be settling more.

Have you watched Portland play? Roy is not that similar to Joe at all...I would say Roy plays like a less athletic Dwyane Wade and Joe plays like Mitch Richmond. Joe's best attribute is his jumpshot(spot up or off the dribble) while Roy's is his slashing ability.

You have a max contract. You don't draft a player at the same position with the same skill set as your franchise guy. A: Eddie Jones wasn't a franchise guys and B: Doesn't have the same skillset as Wade.

A.I'm pretty sure Eddie Jones was on a max contract when the Heat drafted Wade. He was their franchise player so your statement is hypocritical.
B.Miami drafted Wade because he was the best player available regardless of this dumb skillset claim you are referring too(which is BS btw). They could have taken Hinrich or Ford if they wanted a "true" point guard but they went with Wade because they felt he was too talented to pass up even if they played him out of position. I could see passing on Roy(or Foye who I also would have been OK with at the time)if you traded down and took a point guard like Rondo or Marcus Williams...but we drafted Shelden who had no upside and was basically drafted even though we already had two other 6'8 forwards who were both much more talented and much younger. We didn't draft for need or BPA so it was a wasted pick IMO.

A proper comparison would be if Milwalkee got a lottery pick and went after a jump shooting two guard. Or if Dallas got a top pick and went after a 7 foot, jumpshooting, no post game having bad defensively Power forward.

Dumb comparison. Unless Dallas passed on a 4 who was clearly the BPA or Milwaukee passed on a 2 who was clearly the BPA then I don't get what you are saying.

BK problem with drafting sheldon was the fact he could have been had later so he should have traded that 5th pick for 9-10 and gotten sheldon there and some more help.

BK's problem with picking Shelden is that Shelden wasn't good and he didnt' fill our biggest need. If BK wanted a big man so badly(not a 6'8 one who plays under the rim)he should have traded for Nene at the deadline or went after Chandler who Chicago was shopping for expirings.

They also had just signed Speedy Claxon to be the starting point guard, and you know this organizations love for Tyronne Lue as the backup, so that was supposed to fill the PG need. Then his knee went to crap.

1.Speedy Claxton was not signed when we drafted Shelden
2.Speedy has never been healthy in his career...I expected him to miss 10-20 games a year based on his track record(but not a major knee injury like this).
3.Speedy for the majority of his career has been a BACKUP. He did a good job BACKING up Tony Parker and Chris Paul. You get a Parker or Paul caliber PG then find a Speedy Claxton...not the other way around.

Taking Roy would have made no sense and would have been a waste of a pick on both sides as Roy wouldn't have been able to dominate the ball here like he needs to do to be the great player he is now and Atlanta would have been run in the ground when Sheldon would have gone to another team and lead Rookies in Double Doubles so people would be complaining about how we needed a rebounding, scoring big and we gave it up in Sheldon Williams for Brandon Roy who would have been the oft injured backup shooting guard, regulated to becoming a catch and shoot player in this "offense".

1.This is a long ass sentence.
2.Roy wouldn't have been able to "dominate" the ball? WTF. Do you realize even Tyron Lue and Josh Smith(much worse offensive players than Roy)have been allowed by Woodson to "dominate the ball". A team who was last in the NBA in scoring(or near last)should not be complaining about having MORE offensive options. That is (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

And you might say that Woody would see the guys talent and play him at the point and so on and so forth, but right now, Woody doesn't play Mario West to slow down scoring guards, he doesn't play salim to spread the court, he doesn't run plays that feature Smith on the block(smith usually just backs it down himself),

What offensive plays should Woody call for Shelden? None because he SUCKS which is why we shouldn't have drafted him.

so what would make you think Brandon Roy's unique to his position talents would be utilized as a backup to the franchise player?

Why do you keep reffering to him as a backup? Roy would be the starting point guard in Atlanta(we even tried Joe at PG in 2006)... Just like Dwyane Wade would be. Infact if you want to play it that way...Joe would be Roy's backup based on their current performance. Now What

The answer to this thread is simple. Nate McMillian is one of the best coaches in the NBA. We have arguably the worse coach in the NBA. That is the difference between the two teams. Nates offense works perfectly for his teams because he looks at what he has and utilizes it to the best of his ability. Woody substitutes on a schedule and pulls a hot guy from the court of breaks up a hot combination of players because it is simply their time to come off the court.

Coaching is overrated. I believe Nate was their coach when they were one of the worst teams in the NBA the last two years...What is he doing differently then the last two years? The reason Portland is winning is because Roy,Aldridge,Outlaw,and Webster have improved tremendously. That's what talented young players do...it has very little to do with coaching(although Nate is an above average coach).

[Rip2137]

To be fair, thats alot of hindsight involved there. Alot of GMs and coachs questioned Roys ability to play the point. Most said he could play spot minutes there but not be a legit point. Well...thats Joe johnson. He could play spot minutes at the point but not a legit. Sure, if we had a better coach, then yeah, Roy would have been a great pick, but like I said, realistically, he would have been a spot up shooter at best with Woodson at the coach, and a oft injured one at that. After a rookie year of averaging 8-10 points on low 40% shooting, the pick would have been ran in the ground, while Sheldon Williams would have been somewhere putting up 11-14 points and 10-11 rebounds and people here would have been complaining about how we could have had Sheldon.

the Hawks should have picked Paul...I am still with everyone on that one, but not the Roy pick. The Hawks needed a big, and after Aldrige, the next best "big" has turned out to be either Sheldon Williams, Hilton Armstrong, Josh Boone or Paul Milsap. Lets not pretend that Sene or Patrick O'Bryant turned out to be monsters.

[HoopsGuru25]

To be fair, thats alot of hindsight involved there. Alot of GMs and coachs questioned Roys ability to play the point. Most said he could play spot minutes there but not be a legit point. Well...thats Joejohnson. He could play spot minutes at the point but not a legit. Sure, if we had a better coach, then yeah, Roy would have been a great pick, but like I said, realistically, he would have been a spot up shooter at best with Woodson at the coach, and a oft injured one at that. After a rookie year of averaging 8-10 points on low 40% shooting, the pick would have been ran in the ground, while Sheldon Williams would have been somewhere putting up 11-14 points and 10-11 rebounds and people here would have been complaining about how we could have had Sheldon.

Hindsight is used alot in the 2005 draft with the Marvin pick. I was a Chris Paul fan but I didn't mind picking Marvin because he was thought to have the most upside in the draft. Although it's clearly not the case...I did think picking Paul over Marvin could potentially be like picking TJ Ford over Melo so I was cool with Marvin or CP3(or Bogut if Milwaukee took Marvin)as long as we didn't take Felton or Williams who I felt were inferior PG prospects. I think alot of people front like passing on Marvin was a no brainer when it actually wasn't. Picking Marvin over Paul is not nearly as dumb as picking Shelden over Roy because it actually had logic behind it(even those who wanted Paul must admit that).

Hindsight is not involved with the 2006 draft because no one thought Shelden was better than Brandan Roy or Randy Foye at the time...even Dook fans should have known that. Before the lottery(and before BK promised Shelden)he was ranked in the teens in most mock drafts and then he shot up to 5...that wasn't a major red flag to you? We also drafted Shelden(and Horford)to play the 5(or atleast I hope)when they were both 4s. The only difference is that Shelden is worse and doesn't have the upside of Al. Roy is as much of a point guard as Horford and Shelden are centers(with Shelden being a non-factor at both PF and C).

The Hawks needed a big, and after Aldrige, the next best "big" has turned out to be either Sheldon Williams, Hilton Armstrong, Josh Boone or Paul Milsap. Lets not pretend that Sene or Patrick O'Bryant turned out to be monsters.

Just because you need a big man doesn't mean you have to take a crappy one. I don't think I would have even traded Zaza for a project stiff like Sene or O'Bryant at the time of the draft(remember Zaza was seen as a decent player back then) BK could have traded Harrington for Nene at the deadline but chose not do so. He could have traded for Chandler in July but chose not to do so. The Hawks biggest need was at PG(and still is but atleast he TRIED to resolve it by taking Law). He could have traded down and got a future pick on top of it and still left with a talented young pg. Marcus Williams,Rondo,Lowry,Farmar,Rodriguez..any of them would have been a better pick than Shelden at the time because they filled a need while Shelden was drafted to play out of position and wasn't the BPA. You should have known that was a wasted pick as soon as it happened.

[Rip2137]

Calling Sheldon useless when he consistantly produces with minutes is ridiculous. Like I said, he did lead rookies in double doubles last year.

And I don't know what Mock Drafts you were looking at but I never saw sheldon outside of the 12th pick. You do however do raise a great point in saying that Sheldon was about as much a Center as Roy is a point, but I think the original plan was for a Speedy/Joe/Josh/Sheldon/Zaza lineup (remember...Zaza was considered a serviceable Center at the time) with Lo Wright backing up Zaza

I think the point I am trying to drive home is that Brandon Roy would have put up aweful numbers here, he would have been called a bust and would have ended up becoming a star on another team in a few years, just as Sheldon is going to be a good big man for another team in another year or so.

In no way shape or form is Sheldon a better player than Roy or Foye could be, but neither Foye nor Roy would have been slightly effective on this team.

[AZ BLAZER]

Back in the day Portland had a future Hall of Famer (Clyde Drexler) playing sg for them. They had the second pick in the draft and passed on another sg (MJ) because they already had Drexler and really badly needed a center. So they drafted Sam Bowie and the rest is history. Years later a successful GM was asked what he would have done given the same situation. His response; draft MJ and play him at center.

The moral of the story is; You should have drafted Roy despite having JJ and just play him at pg.