Portland's Success This Year

[JoshB914]

Roy is a good basketball player, he would have played well regardless of position. And yes, he could play PG with him and JJ splitting the ball handling duties.

People call Shelden useless because he is exactly that. I'm so sick of people bringing up the "he produces when given minutes" argument. He got plenty of minutes from day one and has NEVER shown the ability to consistently produce. Go back and look at the game logs. He was given minutes for quite sometime and never did a thing with it. He is not given consistent minutes because he is (at best) an inconsistent player.

He lead rookies in double-doubles in an extremely weak draft and a lot of those came against a bunch of tankers in April. Shelden had every chance to produce last season and when he was finally benched he sat back and sulked instead of working harder. He has given us some okay minutes over the last month (about 10 a game) but it is clear he will never be a serviceable player.

[evildallas]

Not the spirit of the original thread, but I have to vent.

There is no defense for picking Shelden and for a lot of us it wasn't hindsight. I argued against that pick for the entire month leading up to the draft. I told my rep with the Spirit that I would cancel my season tickets if they blew the pick on Shelden and I did cancel them when they made that pick. And strangely enough I'm the world's largest Duke fan. It was my familiarity with Shelden's play that made me question what he could do in the NBA. I will admit that I was angling for Foye as more of a PG than Roy, but I would have accepted Roy.

What annoys me the most was BK's statement addressing season ticket holders prior to the draft when he said that the team wasn't close enough to draft a specific position. He was making that statement in response to him ignoring the cries to draft a PG. He then reached for a very specific position ignoring that the team had multiple holes to fill. He could have gotten at 3 better big men in the 2nd round than Shelden if he didn't have tunnel vision for Shelden.

For whatever reasons, BK blew 2006. Shelden was a blown pick made with blinders on, then after Sam Cassell flirted with us he threw too much money at an injury prone backup PG in Speedy Claxton, and he tried to shore up C by adding an empty tank Lo Wright as an afterthought. Strangely, the only move that has worked out is the midseason acquisition of Anthony Johnson. He's been a serviceable PG this season although the 2nd rounder we gave up could have gotten us a backup PF/C that could have contributed more than we are getting out of Shelden or Zaza right now.

Back to the Blazers, they made a lot of right moves and our screwup only opened a door, they still had to walk through.

[D21]

Talking about Cassel and Speedy, BK was certainly sure of signing one of these PGs and that's why he didn't pick a back court player.
He preferred to get vet PG and rookie PF/C help, than trying to add rookie PG (who would not have been ready for this position) and a vet PF/C.

That's the only one explanation I see. But I would have taken Roy...

[Rip2137]

Roy is a good basketball player, he would have played well regardless of position. And yes, he could play PG with him and JJ splitting the ball handling duties.

People call Shelden useless because he is exactly that. I'm so sick of people bringing up the "he produces when given minutes" argument. He got plenty of minutes from day one and has NEVER shown the ability to consistently produce. Go back and look at the game logs. He was given minutes for quite sometime and never did a thing with it. He is not given consistent minutes because he is (at best) an inconsistent player.

He lead rookies in double-doubles in an extremely weak draft and a lot of those came against a bunch of tankers in April. Shelden had every chance to produce last season and when he was finally benched he sat back and sulked instead of working harder. He has given us some okay minutes over the last month (about 10 a game) but it is clear he will never be a serviceable player.

You keep saying this but you are still wrong. The game logs clearly show that when he played over 25 minutes, he averaged 10 points 11 rebonds at over 50% shooting. I know you don't like him, but you can't point to the gamelogs to prove your point. The gamelogs disprove what you are saying.

I am not suggesting that Sheldon was a great pick. Definately not a top 5 pick. Yes, there was plenty wrong with the pick. But Brandon Roy wouldn't have gotten burn here. I don't know what coaching staff you guys are watching, but with Mike Woodson at the helm, that kid would have gotten spot minutes at best. How good he is has nothing to do with it. ESPECIALLY with him playing the point, which was they only experimented with in Portland and only do it for spot minutes, so why exactly would our "offense" make it work so well that it would stick and Woodson would keep giving Roy minutes?

HoopsGuru:

1: Joe and Brandon both have the same game. Both dominate the ball, are big guards that have incredible ball handling for their size, both are excellent passers, both are good spot up shooters with Joe taking the midrange jumper more and roy getting to the paint more. Joes game is nothing like Mitch Richmonds. That is a pretty odd comparison.

2. Eddie Jones wasn't the teams franchise player. They had just spent all that money on Lamar Odem to be the point forward so when people questioned Pat Riley on taking Wade and playing him at the point, Riley said he needed more of a scorer at that position as Odom would be handling the playmaking duties. And that said, how is a jumpshooting Eddie Jones and a player that had no jumpshot coming out of college and scored exclusively off the dribble and at the rim the same skill set?

3: But the signing of Speedy showed the obvious plan to get a vet to play the point, not a rookie. I am not saying it was smart to peg Speedy as your starting point at all, I am saying that they didn't want to put the team in the hands of a rookie(which was dumb) but also is another reason that drafting Roy wouldn't have worked.

4: That was a long ass sentence.

5: No, Roy would not be allowed to dominate the ball in the offense because he isn't Tyrone Lue who apparently is allowed to dribble out the clock, play horrible defense, be outplayed by every guard on the team but still get PT. And Josh Smith doesn't dominate the ball. He does take bad shots on horrible kickouts with 2 seconds left on the shot clock but thats not dominating the ball. Tyronne Lue dominates the ball. But if Acie or Salim do that they get benched for a week. So why wouldn't that happen to Roy.

6: But notice I didn't mention anything for Sheldon because...well...who cares about Sheldons scoring. The point is, there are simple common sense things that could be done using the skills of the players we have, all of which would play to their strengths yet none of them are EVER done. All of a sudden this same coach is giong to be able to see Roy and say "You know what?....starting point guard!!!" Roy hasn't even started at point for Portland for a far better coach, but Woodson was going to see it? Please.

7: I keep refering to him as a backup because he would be a backup. Woody wouldn't bench JJ for him and he wouldn't start him at point. And if he did, he would expect him to ball hawk and pick up silly fouls early. And god forbid if Roy took a shot and missed it. He would be on the bench for the rest of the game. And a turnover? Bench for a week.

8: Coaching is not overrated. A bad coach can take a great team and make them mediocre. A great coach can take a mediocre team and make them good. A great coach will take a good team and make them great.

Name one bad coach that has ever won a championship. The closest was Mike Brown. You have seen bad teams get alot closer to winning championships than you have bad coaches.

[HoopsGuru25]

1: Joe and Brandon both have the same game. Both dominate the ball, are big guards that have incredible ball handling for their size, both are excellent passers, both are good spot up shooters with Joe taking the midrange jumper more and roy getting to the paint more. Joes game is nothing like Mitch Richmonds. That is a pretty odd comparison.

Joe does play like Mitch Richmond. They are both very good shooters who have the ability to get to the basket and create for their teammates. There isn't a much better comparison than I can think of. Roy is primarily slasher and midrange shooter(ala Wade)who can hit the open three.

I also don't care if Roy and Joe have the same skillset(which I disagree with a little). What the hell does that have to do with anything? I'd take two played who are as talented as Joe over Joe Johnson and Shelden Williams.

2. Eddie Jones wasn't the teams franchise player. They had just spent all that money on Lamar Odem to be the point forward so when people questioned Pat Riley on taking Wade and playing him at the point, Riley said he needed more of a scorer at that position as Odom would be handling the playmaking duties. And that said, how is a jumpshooting Eddie Jones and a player that had no jumpshot coming out of college and scored exclusively off the dribble and at the rim the same skill set? ?

LOL what the hell are you talking about?
1.Odom wasn't on the Heat when they signed Wade.

2.Odom was not the Heat's primary target going into free agency....Elton Brand was. They signed him to an offer sheet and the usually cheap Clippers matched(to Miami's surprise). So you are telling me the Heat planned on using Brand at the point forward and Wade playing off the ball when they drafted him?

3.Eddie Jones was the Heat's franchise player when they drafted Wade. This is a fact. I also didnt say Wade and EJ had the same skillset(nor do I care). Miami drafted Wade because he was the best player available... even if they didn't need another shooting guard. Them passing on Wade would have almost been as dumb as the Hawks passing on Roy.

3: But the signing of Speedy showed the obvious plan to get a vet to play the point, not a rookie. I am not saying it was smart to peg Speedy as your starting point at all, I am saying that they didn't want to put the team in the hands of a rookie(which was dumb) but also is another reason that drafting Roy wouldn't have worked.

Drafting a big man and signing a point guard was moronic considering our options. There were defensive big men on the market(Nene,Chandler,Pryzbilla,etc)and talented guards in the draft (Roy,Foye,Williams,Rondo,etc) but BK did the opposite and reached for Shelden and signed a fragile backup pg to a long term deal to be the starter(and signed a washed up center on top of it). They could have signed Speedy and drafted Roy and I wouldn't have complained.

o, Roy would not be allowed to dominate the ball in the offense because he isn't Tyrone Lue who apparently is allowed to dribble out the clock, play horrible defense, be outplayed by every guard on the team but still get PT. And Josh Smith doesn't dominate the ball. He does take bad shots on horrible kickouts with 2 seconds left on the shot clock but thats not dominating the ball. Tyronne Lue dominates the ball. But if Acie or Salim do that they get benched for a week. So why wouldn't that happen to Roy.

The Hawks only have two good offensive players(Joe and Marvin)and only one of them dominates the ball(Joe). Josh Smith handling the ball and shooting as much as he does is a joke considering how inefficient he has been in his career(although he is getting better). If all Josh Smith did was shoot on kickouts as you say there's no way he would turn the ball over as much as he does. His usage is top 25 in the league and even higher than Roy's. Saying Roy wouldn't be effective is like saying a Wade-Joe backcourt or an Arenas-Joe backcourt wouldn't work because they dominate the ball. That would be untrue.

6: But notice I didn't mention anything for Sheldon because...well...who cares about Sheldons scoring.

Who cares about Shelden's scoring? That's the point I'm making...we wasted the 5th pick in the draft on a guy who we don't care about. It was a wasted pick. He's a non-factor.

The point is, there are simple common sense things that could be done using the skills of the players we have, all of which would play to their strengths yet none of them are EVER done. All of a sudden this same coach is giong to be able to see Roy and say "You know what?....starting point guard!!!" Roy hasn't even started at point for Portland for a far better coach, but Woodson was going to see it? Please.

You adapt to your roster. Woodson has started Royal Ivey(who was a 2 in college next to TJ Ford) at point guard but not Brandan Roy. Woodson has adapted to his roster whether you want to admit it or not. He moved Smith to the 4 after we traded Harrington. He's also starting Al Horford(a 4)at center....if Woodson would start Horford at center..explain to me why he wouldn't start Roy at point guard. Your Portland example is useless because Portland doesn't have Joe Johnson. If Portland added Joe Johnson to their team...Roy would start at point guard.

7: I keep refering to him as a backup because he would be a backup. Woody wouldn't bench JJ for him and he wouldn't start him at point. And if he did, he would expect him to ball hawk and pick up silly fouls early. And god forbid if Roy took a shot and missed it. He would be on the bench for the rest of the game. And a turnover? Bench for a week.

Why is Horford starting over Zaza and Lo if Woodson doesn't play people out of position?

8: Coaching is not overrated. A bad coach can take a great team and make them mediocre. A great coach can take a mediocre team and make them good. A great coach will take a good team and make them great.

Coaching in the NBA is extremely overrated...especially in the regular season. The NBA is and always has been a player's league. Coaches always look alot smarter when they have better players.

Name one bad coach that has ever won a championship. The closest was Mike Brown. You have seen bad teams get alot closer to winning championships than you have bad coaches.

Name one bad roster that has won a title. I didn't say coaching is meaningless but the players are about 90% of the game. Coaching in the NFL is much more important.

[candy for lunch]

Roy isn't a good player because he dominates the ball, nor does he need to dominate the ball to be effective (see last year). He's easily the best player on our team right now so it makes sense to run our offense through him.

[HoopsGuru25]

Joe does play like Mitch Richmond. They are both very good shooters who have the ability to get to the basket and create for their teammates. There isn't a much better comparison than I can think of. Roy is primarily slasher and midrange shooter(ala Wade)who can hit the open three.

This was never more true than tonight. Roy would have no problem playing on the Hawks and he plays nothing like Joe. Roy also ran the point exclusively with the game on the line while Jack was at the two.

[evildallas]

It's easier for me to deal with not getting Deron Williams or Chris Paul because I can see Marvin developing into a good player. The pick of Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy eats at me like a huge ulcer and probably will until Roy retires.

[dms269]

I'm not going to read every post in this thread but Portland has some solid bench pieces we don't have. They have a defensive beast in Outlaw off the bench, and a sharp shooter in Jones. That seems to be what is really helping them out the most. They can take out Roy or someone and place Outlaw on the other teams scorer and control them. They can also sit Jones out on the wing and shoot 3's.

[conleyorbust]

It's easier for me to deal with not getting Deron Williams or Chris Paul because I can see Marvin developing into a good player. The pick of Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy eats at me like a huge ulcer and probably will until Roy retires.

ummm... yeah. basically.

[Spykes]

I'm not going to read every post in this thread but Portland has some solid bench pieces we don't have. They have a defensive beast in Outlaw off the bench, and a sharp shooter in Jones. That seems to be what is really helping them out the most. They can take out Roy or someone and place Outlaw on the other teams scorer and control them. They can also sit Jones out on the wing and shoot 3's.

Yes, Portland's bench has been a huge help, but Roy is the motor that makes this Blazer team run. You take him out of our lineup, and this team is down there with the Timberwolves, Sonics and Heat of the world.