Woodson as developer of young talent?

[evildallas]

I've read some people post that Woodson has done a great job developing our young talent. I decided to take a look at that claim. Is it really the case? It's true Josh Smith and Marvin Williams have improved, but what about the rest of roster?

Consider each of the young players under Woodson
Josh Smith has steadily improved.
Marvin Williams has improved this year.

Josh Childress has stayed about the same each year.
Royal Ivey has stayed approximately the same each year.

Zaza Pachulia appears to have regressed.
Salim Stoudamire has went backwards each year.
Shelden Williams has cratered.
Solomon Jones impossible to say sample size too small this year.

I could throw a lot of numbers at people to support my groupings, but I think most will agree that they are fairly accurate. And if any of those last 4 have been improving they aren't getting any PT to show for it.

Frankly, if Woodson was a great developer of talent I would expect better results. And I'm not talking about expecting home runs, just positive trends that sadly aren't there. His reputation for developing talent is build on Josh Smith and Marvin Williams. If you look at the full body of players you might wind up like me wondering exactly how much Woodson has actually added to any of the players.

[HoopsGuru25]

I wouldn't give him much credit for developing Smith and Marvin(other than playing them big minutes at young ages). Josh has below average fundamentals(imo) and a bad shot selection. I never understood why Woody allowed Josh to shoot as many 3s as he did either(although he slowed down thanks to Nique). Josh and Marvin have improved because they were the youngest players of the BK era...it's only logical that 19 year olds are going to improve at a greater rate than 23 year olds like Shelden and Salim.

[JoshB914]

It's a mixed bag with Woody.

You can't not give him at least some credit for Smoove. Smoove was incredibly raw coming into the league and he is becoming more than just an athlete, but a great basketball player. Smoove's shot selection has also improved drastically DURING the season which must have at least something to do with Woody. Marvin has also come along quite nicely. I also dispute the idea that Chillz has not developed because he has. We just expect him to be better because of his draft position when the reality is he has already hit his ceiling as a good role player.

As for the others, I think BK deserves some of the blame. Shelden Williams was destined to be a bust from the second we took him at #5. You can't develop when you don't have any tools in the first place. Royal Ivey improved but he doesn't have the skills to blossom into much more than a good practice player

Salim is the one guy Woody dealt with incorrectly. He's a shooter and nothing more and we tried to make him a PG and play within our offense. He received inconsistent minutes and Woody had too quick of a hook. I think that the way Woody handled Salim has really hampered any chance of him having a decent career.

[evildallas]

Simple repetition and the length of the NBA season should lead to some development and I think that's what you can see with Josh Childress's game. He was a nice player from day one and is still a nice player, but I see no influx of development from a superior player development coach. I'm not saying that Woodson is a horrible player development coach. What I am saying is that is he doesn't deserve to be lauded for being a good player development coach given the whole picture.

[evildallas]

I wouldn't give him much credit for developing Smith and Marvin(other than playing them big minutes at young ages). Josh has below average fundamentals(imo) and a bad shot selection. I never understood why Woody allowed Josh to shoot as many 3s as he did either(although he slowed down thanks to Nique). Josh and Marvin have improved because they were the youngest players of the BK era...it's only logical that 19 year olds are going to improve at a greater rate than 23 year olds like Shelden and Salim.

I agree that the 19 year olds are going to improve at a greater rate than 23 year olds, but I feel in order to be considered a good developer of young talent you have to reach 23 years old as well. The reputation of the staff that is often lauded publicly (especially by ownership) for this seemed based solely on the development of the 2 kids who were so young that they couldn't help but develop. I just contend that the rest of the young players under Woodson have not faired any better than they would have with any NBA coach (except probably Larry Brown and Lenny Wilkins, who are both horrible with young players).

I hope ownership looks at the whole picture rather than assume that Woodson must be good with young players because of Josh Smith and Marvin Williams development. I don't expect a change midseason, but for the sake of the kids don't give Woodson another contract at the end of the year regardless of whether we creep into the playoffs.

[tbhawksfan]

Woodson has had a verbal altercation with at least half the players and seemingly all of his coaches. It is usually over either play calling or rotation issues.

We have all (I think) criticized Woody's X's and O's and his rotations. We've been questioning these same things for tover three years now.

We have talent now. We are even fairly deep. but, our young talent is not developing well. Most seem to actually be regressing.

Woodson is NOT a good head coach. He is a BAD head coach. I don't think he ever will be a good coach.

He is inflexible, stubborn, narrow-minded and a disciplinarian. Getting people to agree is a much better motivator than fascism...ehhh discipline, I always get those two mixed up.

I dream of what an intelligent coach with an open mind and the ability to build his plan around his players and vice-versa could do for us. I expect to see a new coach at some point because I'm convinced that everyone knows Woodson isn't going to cut it and that the Hawks need/deserve better.

[conleyorbust]

It's a mixed bag with Woody.

You can't not give him at least some credit for Smoove. Smoove was incredibly raw coming into the league and he is becoming more than just an athlete, but a great basketball player. Smoove's shot selection has also improved drastically DURING the season which must have at least something to do with Woody. Marvin has also come along quite nicely. I also dispute the idea that Chillz has not developed because he has. We just expect him to be better because of his draft position when the reality is he has already hit his ceiling as a good role player.

As for the others, I think BK deserves some of the blame. Shelden Williams was destined to be a bust from the second we took him at #5. You can't develop when you don't have any tools in the first place. Royal Ivey improved but he doesn't have the skills to blossom into much more than a good practice player

Salim is the one guy Woody dealt with incorrectly. He's a shooter and nothing more and we tried to make him a PG and play within our offense. He received inconsistent minutes and Woody had too quick of a hook. I think that the way Woody handled Salim has really hampered any chance of him having a decent career.

I know you never like Shel but you have to open your eyes a little if you don't think he has had a massive regression. PER is a good tool for this because it doesn't factor in PT, last season Shel had a PER of 12.39. A little below average but a producer at the NBA level. He was good at drawing fouls on offense and he was a very good rebounder. This season his PER has plummetted to 8.78 which is terrible. Zaza's drop has been even more troubling, he went from 16.90 last season to 5.39. That is a drop from an above average producer on offense to one of the worst players in the NBA.

Yes, Smith has improved a lot since coming into the league. He has also put in more development time in the offseason than almost any other player we have had. Marv has been a mixed bag in terms of development, he came into the league with a lot of talent but he never had the mental aspect of the game down. To an extent he still doesn't. Its not that Woody didn't do a good job with these guys but it isn't like he has Marv ahead of where people thought he would be (probably behind) and I have to give Josh a lot of credit for putting in more work than most players.

In all I have been really disappointed in how some of our players have regressed. I can't help but blame that on Woody to an extent. It's one thing to say that Shel was never going to be really good but its another to completely ignore the fact that he has gotten a whole lot worse.

[JoshB914]

Shelden's PER is not a good indication given his amount of minutes. I don't like to look at that stat for guys that play sporadically. Shelden has never been productive for us regardless of his rebounds per 48 minutes was. I don't think he has regressed, he looks like the exact same player to me. Zaza is a different story, and it is indeed scary to see how far he has regressed.

Woody has to get some credit for Smoove. Smoove's game has altered IN SEASON this year. His shot selection has improved drastically and he is under control. Surely someone in the coaching staff stepped in and changed some things.

Other than that I agree that Woody isn't the developer of talent that he is supposed to be. I think he is done an okay job in that area, which is much less than what we want from him.