I know we have discussed this option before, but now, the word of of New Jersey is that Kidd does, in fact, want out. They've lost 8 in a row, and he wants to be dealt to a contender.
Now, I know the only contenders out there are mainly....in the West, and for the exception of maybe Boston or Cleveland in the East.
My question is do you think Kidd would reject the idea of maybe coming here....with the idea of propelling the Hawks into a 2006-07 Golden State Warriors....who made a very impressive playoff run?
We need BK to put some extra hair grease on the mini fro to get this thing moving...because he has shown a penchant for incompetence in the past.
I'm going to try and see if a deal can work on ESPN's trade machine....but feel free to chime in....again!
Jason Kidd to ATL revisited.
Moderators: dms269, Jamaaliver, HMFFL
Jason Kidd to ATL revisited.
-
fo_o_fo_404
- Senior
- Posts: 564
- And1: 0
- Joined: Mar 27, 2003
-
killbuckner
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,088
- And1: 0
- Joined: May 27, 2003
-
evildallas
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,412
- And1: 0
- Joined: Aug 11, 2005
- Location: in the land of weak ownership
- Contact:
We are not a potential player for Jason Kidd. We don't have the salaries to add up to Kidd without shipping either Joe or most of the roster. In season no one can take on most of the roster and without Joe why would Kidd be happy here?
The following trade works in a trade checker:
Joe
Lue (or AJ)
Shelden
for
Jason Kidd
Antoine Wright
The problem is that probably isn't enough for Kidd, but giving Al or Josh Smith doesn't make sense for us. Giving Josh Childress or Marvin doesn't make sense for them (too many wings, nothing else). Also if giving up on Kidd, NJ will want to drop a little salary rather than pick up any as they are right at the luxury tax threshold (if not just over).
To make a deal they would have to have Joe to make the salary work and they would ask for Al or Josh to go with him. That's just too much in my opinion. Also don't forget that Kidd really wants a year or 2 extension to make him happy.
The following trade works in a trade checker:
Joe
Lue (or AJ)
Shelden
for
Jason Kidd
Antoine Wright
The problem is that probably isn't enough for Kidd, but giving Al or Josh Smith doesn't make sense for us. Giving Josh Childress or Marvin doesn't make sense for them (too many wings, nothing else). Also if giving up on Kidd, NJ will want to drop a little salary rather than pick up any as they are right at the luxury tax threshold (if not just over).
To make a deal they would have to have Joe to make the salary work and they would ask for Al or Josh to go with him. That's just too much in my opinion. Also don't forget that Kidd really wants a year or 2 extension to make him happy.
Going to donkey punch a leprechaun!
-
HMFFL
- Global Mod
- Posts: 49,879
- And1: 8,012
- Joined: Mar 10, 2004
evildallas wrote:We are not a potential player for Jason Kidd. We don't have the salaries to add up to Kidd without shipping either Joe or most of the roster. In season no one can take on most of the roster and without Joe why would Kidd be happy here?
The following trade works in a trade checker:
Joe
Lue (or AJ)
Shelden
for
Jason Kidd
Antoine Wright
The problem is that probably isn't enough for Kidd, but giving Al or Josh Smith doesn't make sense for us. Giving Josh Childress or Marvin doesn't make sense for them (too many wings, nothing else). Also if giving up on Kidd, NJ will want to drop a little salary rather than pick up any as they are right at the luxury tax threshold (if not just over).
To make a deal they would have to have Joe to make the salary work and they would ask for Al or Josh to go with him. That's just too much in my opinion. Also don't forget that Kidd really wants a year or 2 extension to make him happy.
So does this one.
Speedy Claxton
Josh Childress
Shelden Williams
Lorenzen Wright
Tyronn Lue
NJ may want a future first or some seconds for acquiring Speedy. Not that they want him anyway.
Jason Kidd
Joe Johnson
Marvin Williams
Josh Smith
Al Horford
I like our future there even if it only last a couple season. The ASG makes moneys but would also need to go over the cap at some point.
-
evildallas
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,412
- And1: 0
- Joined: Aug 11, 2005
- Location: in the land of weak ownership
- Contact:
5 players, 1 of which is Speedy. Don't see that working. You can replace Speedy with with Zaza and still get it to work numbers-wise. They'd still have to release a couple of players to make the trade work (which they could) in respect to roster limits. I'll admit it gives them a lot of cap relief, but not much rebuilding talent. We'd be asking them to take on 1 year of bigs who aren't get PT here (not an endorsement) and the rights to Childress who if they resign would be behind Jefferson and Carter unless they are starting over entirely with other deals (theoretically Jefferson could be moved, I doubt anyone takes Carter's contract).
I think there maybe some possible deals that don't involve them totally rebuilding, but rather changing the chemistry that would be more attractive.
They could possibly talk to Washington about Arenas and Etan Thomas for Kidd. Etan is coming back and gives them another big. Arenas gives them star power to make up for the loss of Kidd provided they resign him. If they don't they get cap room like in the Atlanta offer. Washington gets a PG upgrade and a playoff veteran to make a run this year. The drawback is that it could be a 1 year run only because Antwan is an RFA.
or Sacramento:
Bibby and Artest for Kidd and Nachbar and a 1st. Play Artest as an undersized 4 and Sean Williams at the 5. Again it changes chemistry without completely rebuilding. Bibby is a still a good PG (but no Kidd). If Krstic ever returns they can make Artest a devestating 6th man. Sacramento gets a face lift and a more tradeable asset should they choose to rebuild than what they ship out. They also get an extra first.
I'm not saying that Atlanta shouldn't talk to NJ with an offer like you suggest, but realistically Jersey might have some better options out there if they are willing to take the risk.
I think there maybe some possible deals that don't involve them totally rebuilding, but rather changing the chemistry that would be more attractive.
They could possibly talk to Washington about Arenas and Etan Thomas for Kidd. Etan is coming back and gives them another big. Arenas gives them star power to make up for the loss of Kidd provided they resign him. If they don't they get cap room like in the Atlanta offer. Washington gets a PG upgrade and a playoff veteran to make a run this year. The drawback is that it could be a 1 year run only because Antwan is an RFA.
or Sacramento:
Bibby and Artest for Kidd and Nachbar and a 1st. Play Artest as an undersized 4 and Sean Williams at the 5. Again it changes chemistry without completely rebuilding. Bibby is a still a good PG (but no Kidd). If Krstic ever returns they can make Artest a devestating 6th man. Sacramento gets a face lift and a more tradeable asset should they choose to rebuild than what they ship out. They also get an extra first.
I'm not saying that Atlanta shouldn't talk to NJ with an offer like you suggest, but realistically Jersey might have some better options out there if they are willing to take the risk.
Going to donkey punch a leprechaun!
-
atlsun
- Senior
- Posts: 623
- And1: 0
- Joined: Apr 19, 2007
- Location: New Zealand
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=
but I like this one with sixers.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=
but I like this one with sixers.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=
-
reazun
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 871
- And1: 140
- Joined: Aug 11, 2005
- Location: chicago, originally form Atlanta
-
uga_dawgs24 wrote:Kidd would be nice to get but the pure number of players we would have to give is too many.
I dont think so, look what happened to Boston when they got KG. As long as we dont give away two or more of our core away. I think in order to keep JJ, we would have to do a three way. THis is really just wishful thinking now.
-
HoopsGuru25
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,321
- And1: 3
- Joined: Apr 18, 2006
1.Kidd is 3 years older than KG.
2. Pierce pressured Boston into getting KG(and Ray Allen). There was talks that he would demand a trade if they didn't. They either had to go to an all out rebuild(like Minnesota is doing now)or go for a title. There was no in between option.
3. Kidd has a much worse attitude than KG. It's hilarious how Kobe get's negative press for being a control freak and Kidd doesn't. Kidd has tried to play the role of GM many times throughout his career(he hated Skiles and he got Byron Scott fired in particular).
4.Andre Miller is possibly on the trading block. He's not as good as Kidd but he could be had for much,much, less.
reazun getting KG and getting Kidd are two different things. The only way I would advocate getting Kidd is if that three way trade that Phoenix(who could have had KG)turned down( 3 and 11 for Amare) went down in the off-season. A Kidd-JJ-Amare combo would be pretty good and we probably could still keep Marvin(Smith would have to be packaged for Kidd). Adding Kidd to this team and losing Smith or Horford would be a disaster right now because we still wouldn't be a top 3 team in the East and Kidd still wouldn't be happy with the Hawks. I'm not even sure the Hawks roster is even better on paper than the Nets and somehow we still are ahead of them in the standings despite them having Kidd.
2. Pierce pressured Boston into getting KG(and Ray Allen). There was talks that he would demand a trade if they didn't. They either had to go to an all out rebuild(like Minnesota is doing now)or go for a title. There was no in between option.
3. Kidd has a much worse attitude than KG. It's hilarious how Kobe get's negative press for being a control freak and Kidd doesn't. Kidd has tried to play the role of GM many times throughout his career(he hated Skiles and he got Byron Scott fired in particular).
4.Andre Miller is possibly on the trading block. He's not as good as Kidd but he could be had for much,much, less.
reazun getting KG and getting Kidd are two different things. The only way I would advocate getting Kidd is if that three way trade that Phoenix(who could have had KG)turned down( 3 and 11 for Amare) went down in the off-season. A Kidd-JJ-Amare combo would be pretty good and we probably could still keep Marvin(Smith would have to be packaged for Kidd). Adding Kidd to this team and losing Smith or Horford would be a disaster right now because we still wouldn't be a top 3 team in the East and Kidd still wouldn't be happy with the Hawks. I'm not even sure the Hawks roster is even better on paper than the Nets and somehow we still are ahead of them in the standings despite them having Kidd.
-
HMFFL
- Global Mod
- Posts: 49,879
- And1: 8,012
- Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Trading for Jason and giving up Joe doesn't improve us much. I mentioned including draft picks if they take on Speedy. Depending on which round the picks are and the protection, I believe the pick(s) could be attractive to a rebuilding New Jersey team.
Now, if they don't plan on moving Vince Carter or Richard Jefferson, I don't view it as rebuilding considering they have two franchise players. They only need to find a proven point guard and solid role players to go along with the core players they currently have.
Vince Carter's going to be very difficult to move and retaining him is going to hold the franchise down for years. It must suck to be Jay Z.
Now, if they don't plan on moving Vince Carter or Richard Jefferson, I don't view it as rebuilding considering they have two franchise players. They only need to find a proven point guard and solid role players to go along with the core players they currently have.
Vince Carter's going to be very difficult to move and retaining him is going to hold the franchise down for years. It must suck to be Jay Z.
-
reazun
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 871
- And1: 140
- Joined: Aug 11, 2005
- Location: chicago, originally form Atlanta
-
HoopsGuru25 wrote:1.Kidd is 3 years older than KG.
2. Pierce pressured Boston into getting KG(and Ray Allen). There was talks that he would demand a trade if they didn't. They either had to go to an all out rebuild(like Minnesota is doing now)or go for a title. There was no in between option.
3. Kidd has a much worse attitude than KG. It's hilarious how Kobe get's negative press for being a control freak and Kidd doesn't. Kidd has tried to play the role of GM many times throughout his career(he hated Skiles and he got Byron Scott fired in particular).
4.Andre Miller is possibly on the trading block. He's not as good as Kidd but he could be had for much,much, less.
reazun getting KG and getting Kidd are two different things. The only way I would advocate getting Kidd is if that three way trade that Phoenix(who could have had KG)turned down( 3 and 11 for Amare) went down in the off-season. A Kidd-JJ-Amare combo would be pretty good and we probably could still keep Marvin(Smith would have to be packaged for Kidd). Adding Kidd to this team and losing Smith or Horford would be a disaster right now because we still wouldn't be a top 3 team in the East and Kidd still wouldn't be happy with the Hawks. I'm not even sure the Hawks roster is even better on paper than the Nets and somehow we still are ahead of them in the standings despite them having Kidd.
1.I still think Kidd has enough in him to justify giving up one of our core players
2. I dont think Pierce would have left since they got Ray too. Plus, our pg needs are just as urgent as Bostons need to help out Pierce. If we dont get someone to help JJ, do you think he will stay when his contracts up? I doubt it, he seems pretty frustrated.
3. I didnt know that Kidd's attitude was bad. But, would it really be that bad if he got Woody or BK fired? Jordan tried to play GM and butted heads with Krause numerious times. No one in their right mind would not want MJ on their team, because he is a great player. I know Kidd and MJ are not on an equal level, but I think that Kidd's contribution would be good enough to justify a trade regardless of his control issues
4. I completely agree that Andre Miller is a better option, because he is cheaper, but to pass on Kidd if we can get him, in order to hopefully get Miller would be a bad choice. What if we get offered a trade for Kidd and reject it in hopes of obtaining Miller later, and then the sixers decide that they will trade miller to another team? that would suck. Id say take Kidd if we can, he can teach Acie alot.
I still think if we can get Kidd by only giving up one of our core players and a few of our bench players (this would probably have to be a three-way trade to work) then it would be good for us. I can see your reasons for not wanting to do it though.
-
conleyorbust
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,837
- And1: 0
- Joined: May 24, 2007
Haha, reazun you responded to yourself before I could.
Kidd isn't anywhere near KG level anymore and he is alot older. I wouldn't trade a "core" player for him (JJ, Marv, Smith, Hofo) but if he has asked to be moved it really kills any leverage that NJ had. The only way they are gonna get a prospect of any value is if they can find a team that thinks it has the peices to make a run this season. That's not us.
Kidd isn't anywhere near KG level anymore and he is alot older. I wouldn't trade a "core" player for him (JJ, Marv, Smith, Hofo) but if he has asked to be moved it really kills any leverage that NJ had. The only way they are gonna get a prospect of any value is if they can find a team that thinks it has the peices to make a run this season. That's not us.