ImageImage

Blaming Woody is a cop out

Moderators: dms269, Jamaaliver, HMFFL

User avatar
tontoz
RealGM
Posts: 18,498
And1: 3,926
Joined: Apr 11, 2005

 

Post#41 » by tontoz » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:59 pm

We need players first and foremost no matter who the coach is.


Which is irrelevant to last nights game. They should have won last night and would have if Woody had told them to keep pushing it in the second half.

what do you expect us to do, ignore the games and sit around waiting for better players to magically appear?

BK's mistakes have been well chronicled. Obviously this is a flawed roster but it still isn't winning as many games as it should and that can be directly traced to Woody.
User avatar
IDoIt4TheA
Junior
Posts: 317
And1: 0
Joined: May 17, 2007
Location: The A all day!

 

Post#42 » by IDoIt4TheA » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:24 pm

Yes, our team does have flaws...we don't have a starting caliber PG and no center. But you can't really knock how AJ has been playing this season and Horford is doing a sufficient job as an under-sized center. Almost all teams have flaws in their roster, the whole name of the game is playing to your strengths.

I'm not saying that our players don't deserve fault for some of these losses but Woody has single handedly lost games for us thanks to stupid play calling (or lack there of) and poor substitutions. We could be a hell of a lot better team with a good coach.

I would be in favor of letting Woodson go now. I don't see that our assistant coaches could do a worse job. Many people have said that we should wait until the end of the season to let Woodson walk, but I don't like that idea because if we make the playoffs the ASG might decide to keep Woodson since he "helped" meet our main goal. I say lets cut our losses now and keep it movin.
User avatar
JoshB914
Head Coach
Posts: 6,889
And1: 2
Joined: Feb 16, 2006

 

Post#43 » by JoshB914 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:37 pm

AJ has been okay, Smoove and Marvin are having career seasons, Horford has stepped in and averaged a dbl-dbl. That leaves one guy in the starting lineup... One guy who is supposed to be our best player yet is having BY FAR the worst season of his career. That's why we're losing if you ask me.
Gutz
Banned User
Posts: 1,416
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 14, 2006

 

Post#44 » by Gutz » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:42 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Guts it's called an iso play. Most teams run that down the stretch for their stars, give them the ball and let them work. I agree it is a dumb play call since JJ is not a star and cannot handle those situations.

The reaction to this game is sickening to me. Of course it turned into a flame war about specific stats that have nothing to do with the thread. We just blew a 19-point lead and you wouldn't know our players did a thing wrong on this board. Except for Zaza of course who must have blown the entire lead on his own. The players on the floor have to take responsibility before a dude in a suit. That is why they get paid so much more.

NBA coaching is extremely overrated. As I said earlier, the Celtics win with Rivers, the Cavs went to the NBA finals with a play caller less imaginative than Woody.

We aren't winning because we aren't a good team! Fortunately, we can still make the East playoffs without being one.



Dude I know what an iso play is!! Good grief! My point is that is a horrible play call to do EVERY single time we have a chance to win the game. Why not run a screen or do something to free up a guy like Marvin who is money from 20ft in. It's just HORRIBLE coaching again and again. Plain and simple
User avatar
JoshB914
Head Coach
Posts: 6,889
And1: 2
Joined: Feb 16, 2006

 

Post#45 » by JoshB914 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:44 pm

I agree with you, man. My point is not that Woody gets no blame. But that the players should be held most responsible for what happens on the floor. Actually that's common knowledge.

People are just being homers and dont want to admit that we aren't a good basketball team.
User avatar
tontoz
RealGM
Posts: 18,498
And1: 3,926
Joined: Apr 11, 2005

 

Post#46 » by tontoz » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:48 pm

JoshB914 wrote:One guy who is supposed to be our best player yet is having BY FAR the worst season of his career.


That is just plain stupid, or i should say normal for you.
conleyorbust
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,837
And1: 0
Joined: May 24, 2007

 

Post#47 » by conleyorbust » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:33 pm

I think that kb and josh are making some valid points. I have been an advocate of finding a starting caliber point guard for some time, hence my screen name. Still, I have been pleasantly suprised by our team's ability to push the pace without one. Specific to last night's game (but can be applied to all games where we have a large lead before the fourth - Denver, Chicago, Seattle), we imposed our will on the Blazers in the first half. We did that by not taking our foot off the throttle. In the second half, if you watched, we don't try to do that. Instead of pushing at every opportunity, we slowed the pace down to protect a lead.

KB, look at it empirically. Go to where we began to build a lead in the first and look at the amount of time that goes off the shot clock between the beginning of our possessions and the end of them. Then go to the fourth and look at the same thing in that situation. In the fourth, too many of our possessions lasted 19 or more seconds culminating with a shotclock violation with 9 seconds left. Now I'll admit that there are reasons to play clock-ball, good reasons. However this team has shown that it cannot let off the gas and when it does we lose.

As far as having one player who can execute and score in the half court? I'll agree with you to an extent but again, you are completely ignoring the empirical evidence from last season. When we had Joe, we won 38% of our games, without Joe? 36%. Why is that? Did we switch to a more uptempto style to take advantage of the Joshes' and Marv's athleticism? No, we gave the ball the Smith and let him attack. He did it with the same effectiveness Joe had had all season.

There is a reason we never blow teams out. We don't play for the win, we play to protect the loss but it is obvious that a certain style of play works for this team and every time we are winning we get away from it. I blame the players for their problems in the half court: Marv and Joe's lack of a killer instict, Josh's propensity for turnover, the suckiness of our bench; but I blame the coach for telling the players during a time-out, "alright guys, we have to protect this lead... lets limit the amount of possessions they can get by using up the clock." If we are going to do that, I think Marv and Smith should get the ball more often because on a per-possession basis they are more likely to draw a foul.

As far as us not being able to run in the second: Do you think the players don't want to run? Of course they do, they love it. Do you think Nate McMillan said he didn't mind it if the Hawks controlled the tempo and built a 15 point lead in the first because he knew his team could slow it down in the second? Of course not, he was probably thrilled by the predictability of our offense down the stretch. Look at the game logs for almost any game where we had a big lead before the fourth. In almost every case we win by an uncomfortable margin, go look at the shot-clock we waste in the fourth.
User avatar
AU hawksfan
Rookie
Posts: 1,085
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Location: Kennesaw, GA

 

Post#48 » by AU hawksfan » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:22 pm

The reason I'm so pissed at Woody is not the decision to run the iso play, but how it is ran. How hard is it to get some movement from the players that don't have the ball?

His iso play is so predictable and could be run by a middle school team. "Pass the ball to JJ and stand around." JJ struggled, but it didn't help that he had nobody to pass to due to no movement (which should have been facilitated by Woodson). This left him having to try and bail us out with a heavily gaurded jumpshot.

How is Woodson getting paid good money to create the most elementary and predictable play down the stretch? His lack of creativity kills me! :banghead:

Return to Atlanta Hawks