Interest in Mo Williams?

raferfenix · Post #1 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:31 am

Hey Hawks fans, i'm checking to see how interested you think your team would be in a Mo Williams based trade with the Bucks?

Most Bucks fans believe that a backcourt of Mo and Redd just can't work since both are score first guards and neither are great defenders. I think he'd be a great fit next to Joe Johnson though because of his superior defense and passing.

Can you guys see a Mo to Hawks trade going down? What do you think it'd include? Here's my try at one:

Bucks trade: Mo Williams, Charlie Villanueva, Dan Gadzuric, Jake Voshkul

Hawks trade: Josh Childress, Sheldon Williams, Speedy Claxton, Zaza Pachulia

evildallas · Post #2 » by **evildallas** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:51 am

Not bad, I don't mind it, but I would vary that deal slightly.

Bucks send: Mo Williams, Charlie V, Jake Voshkul
Hawks send: Josh Childress, Shelden Williams, Zaza, Salim (to make BYC work)

Speedy's injury situation makes him a questionable inclusion for you guys. I like Gadzuric's size, but don't like his contract. There contracts are similar and both go at least 2 years.

I like it for both teams in that in changes up our respect lineups giving you more size (especially in the backcourt) and banging and giving us more shooting range and a more viable PG.
Salim is an inexpensive expiring contract to make BYC work.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #3 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:52 am

It looks like Mo is BYC on the trade checker. I'm not interested in Villanueva and I'm not interested in taking on Gadzurich(and I know the Bucks don't want Speedy). I would do a deal based around Chil/Shelden or Chil/Zaza and Mo. Both teams could throw in useless expirings(Salim,Lue,Lo,Ruffin,Noel,Vohskul) to make it match. I'm not sure if it would work though.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #4 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:57 am

Bucks send: Mo Williams, Charlie V, Jake Voshkul
Hawks send: Josh Childress, Shelden Williams, Zaza, Salim (to make BYC work)

I like this deal more than the original one. The Speedy-Gadzurich trade was bad for both teams. If the Bucks could throw in a 2nd rounder(which may be earlier than ours)then we could get Joey Dorsey to replace Shelden and Zaza. However that's where reality sets in and you realize BK has yet to get a rotation player out of any of his 2nd round picks.

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #5 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:03 am

id do those anyday

Gutz · Post #6 » by **Gutz** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:26 am

Where do I sign on any of those trades. Either one helps us tremendously where Mo is included.

raferfenix · Post #7 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:58 am

I by no means thought the Bucks woudl want speedy claxton. We would be desperate for PG help after this deal, but speedy's contract is nasty. I assumed you guys would demand that for us to include gadzuric though. He's a pathetically bad fit for the Bucks since he's a horribly low bball iq player who's only good in transition, playing on a half court team with mostly low bball iq players to boot. I bet he'd be better on a team like yours, but who knows how much----plus, he's got a year extra on his contract than Claxton.

Even if you guys don't take gadzuric I can still see the right trade going down. Sheldon Williams is the exact kind of player we could use in our front court, and I think he'd play great next to either Bogut or Yi. More importantly though, we are pathetically weak at small forward, and our defense has been an absolute joke in large part because of that. Childress or Marvin Williams would be incredible fits there, and I can see us trading a lot for either of them.

I can also very easily see the Bucks wanting to include Acie Law in the deal if it's possible too.

JoshB914 · Post #8 » by **JoshB914** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:00 am

You need bad players in your front court?

evildallas · Post #9 » by **evildallas** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:59 am

We could substitute an expiring PG to get you through the season instead of one of the bigs if you like or try the changed scenario below.

Another trade I would do is this:
Bucks out: Mo Williams, Desmond Mason, Jake Voshkul, 2nd rounder
Hawks out: Josh Childress, Ty Lue, Zaza Pachulia, Shelden Williams

It works with the BYC in trade checker. Gives you a PG to finish out the year without forcing you to commit long term, Childress, and 2 bangers. We get a PG, a replacement swingman, and a lesser big. Mason makes 2M more than Villaneuva, but expires at the same time so we can probably handle the extra cost. We don't get the midrange shooting touch of CV, but we do get a gritty perimeter defender. I think it is fair to both teams in that it changes up our rosters in ways we both need.

mr_grabb · Post #10 » by **mr_grabb** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:21 pm

Im down getting a third Williams on our Roster

raferfenix · Post #11 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:23 pm

I just looked at Sheldon Williams' stats---man he's having a bad year! What's his deal?

How much do you think the Hawks value Acie Law and Marvin Williams as well?

conleyorbust · Post #12 » by **conleyorbust** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:37 pm

raferfenix wrote:I just looked at Sheldon Williams' stats---man he's having a bad year! What's his deal?

How much do you think the Hawks value Acie Law and Marvin Williams as well?

His deal? Well for one he is and always will be a limited player. Beyond that his confidence is shattered and he is very unhappy here... never got along with the coach, never really like his role even when he was doing well in it (went through some great rookie stretches of play last season).

Acie was the 11th pick in the draft and doesn't look very good right now. He is tall so BK probably likes him and his value is probably the lowest it will ever be at this point so I don't think he is valued too highly but his value is probably depressed right now. He's played well again as of late so it might be rising.

Marv is pretty highly valued in the organization. For starters, it does matter that BK passed on Paul for him because a trade for Mo Williams would net a point guard who is nowhere near CP and that makes BK look really bad (would you trade Paul for Mo Williams?). Beyond that he is a good shooter, foul drawer, and defender with youth, athleticism, and great size. He has improved quite a bit and looks to be a top notch role player so he has value on his own merit too.

raferfenix · Post #13 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:20 pm

The Bucks are desperate for a Charles Oakley kind of player, and the Sheldon Williams I saw play college ball seems like he'd be perfect in that role. Can he get back to that?

There were rumors that the bucks were real high on Acie Law back when we were thinking of trading down in the draft, so I can see us still having a lot of interest in him.

I figured that netting Marvin Williams would be particualry tough because of how bad it'd make Knight look. If Childress can play great D and be a good passer though he'd fit in amazingly at SF for us though too.

evildallas · Post #14 » by **evildallas** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:31 pm

^^^^ Well said.

Shelden needs a change of situation and change of coaches. I'd like to highlight that the team switched big men coaches from Tyrone Hill to Alton Lister last off season. I was in favor of a new coach because I felt Hill wasn't developing the young bigs enough, but it looks like a bad hire. The perfomance of our bigs has plummeted this year. It's not just Shelden not getting time, but Zaza has regressed and Solomon haven't developed. And with Horford being a rookie we can't really judge his development. He's played well rebounding and on defense, but I wonder how much of that is just him and if he wouldn't be producing more with a different big man coach tutoring him.

I'm confident that Zaza will return to past form and Shelden will reach new heights in different situations. I have no problem trading them because I know they won't get that opportunity here.

Marvin is not available for this deal. Acie Law is tricky. His low salary doesn't help in the BYC trade and it is uncommon for teams to trade 1st round draft picks this early. Once you've made the pick you normally hold on to the player for at least a year (normally 2) to make a fair evaluation. The risk is too great that the player blossoms elsewhere and makes the GM look bad for giving them up.

conleyorbust · Post #15 » by **conleyorbust** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:35 pm

I do think Chil would be a great fit in Milwaukee. He isn't a lockdown defender because he isn't very quick laterally but he makes rotations well. He isn't much of a passer either but a lot of that is because he doesn't need the ball to create his own offense. He shoots a very high percentage because of how he plays, he knows how to get open and play off better scorers. He's also an excellent out of position rebounder which would also help in Milwaukee if I'm not mistaken.

He wouldn't take the ball out of Redd or Bogut's hands and would be great with a passing high post big like Bogut who could find him cutting to the basket.

JoshB914 · Post #16 » by **JoshB914** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:07 pm

Shelden never has been and never will be Charles Oakley. I really see him out of hte league in the next five years. He has nothing to offer.

evildallas · Post #17 » by **evildallas** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 8:46 am

JoshB914 wrote:Shelden never has been and never will be Charles Oakley. I really see him out of hte league in the next five years. He has nothing to offer.

I've been negative on Shelden in the past myself, but until I see him fail in another situation far removed from Mike Woodson will I write him off like that. There is no reason why he can't become a bruising PF in the NBA. Someone should coach him up to become Reggie Evans. That won't happen here. Here he's got the baggage of being picked #5 overall that he'll never live up to. A top 5 pick needs to be a lot more than just a rebounder. Once someone convinces him that it wasn't his fault he got picked that high he should find his niche and contribute to a team for a decade. If we fire Woodson and Lister we might be able to salvage him ourselves, but it would be more likely that a free start kick starts the process.

conleyorbust · Post #18 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 3:10 pm

evildallas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I've been negative on Shelden in the past myself, but until I see him fail in another situation far removed from Mike Woodson will I write him off like that. There is no reason why he can't become a bruising PF in the NBA. Someone should coach him up to become Reggie Evans. That won't happen here. Here he's got the baggage of being picked #5 overall that he'll never live up to. A top 5 pick needs to be a lot more than just a rebounder. Once someone convinces him that it wasn't his fault he got picked that high he should find his niche and contribute to a team for a decade. If we fire Woodson and Lister we might be able to salvage him ourselves, but it would be more likely that a free start kick starts the process.

Well put. I was looking at the game log from last season. He really is a good rebounder when he wants to be. I do remember the argument midway through the season was that he thought he should be contributing more than just inside muscle and Woody disagreed. I'll agree with Woody that Shel would be best served as a tough guy role player but Shelden does have some NBA skills. The Hawk's seem to have trouble putting guys into positions; its equal parts BK and the coaching staff.

raferfenix · Post #19 » by **raferfenix** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 6:25 pm

Rebounding and defense usually transfer from college ot the NBA well, so I would think that Sheldon could become at least a very solid role player in that regard in the NBA. How is he offensively though? Does he have any post game, jump shot, or passing ability?

Also, what do you gusy think you might include Anthony Johnson in this kind of deal (assuming Acie Law isn't involved). The Bucks could really use more of a veteran presence, especially a good passer who could feed Bogut in the post.

conleyorbust · Post #20 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 7:17 pm

raferfenix wrote:Rebounding and defense usually transfer from college ot the NBA well, so I would think that Sheldon could become at least a very solid role player in that regard in the NBA. How is he offensively though? Does he have any post game, jump shot, or passing ability?

Also, what do you gusy think you might include Anthony Johnson in this kind of deal (assuming Acie Law isn't involved). The Bucks could really use more of a veteran presence, especially a good passer who could feed Bogut in the post.

Offensively, he has a midrange jumper that isn't terrible for a big. Last season he showed a knack for getting to the line, he had a pretty good rate of free throws. He doesn't convert particularly well though because he is short and not super explosive. He needs a tough guy kind of coach to give him a role at the NBA level because it seems like BK told him his role was going to be fairly significant.