What teams...?

[conleyorbust]

I was trying to think up how we bring in some better players, specifically Miller, and I started to wonder who needs the assets we have? If we can't do a straight up trade, maybe we can pull in a third team.

Which teams could really use Zaza? Dallas and NJ maybe?
Shelden? The Grizz and Milwaukee?
Chil is our most valuable asset, which teams could use a versatile and efficient player off the bench? Phoenix and New Orleans maybe?

We need to make a move and those guys plus the expirings are really the only assets we want to trade unless someone comes knockin' with a real upgrade.

[killbuckner]

I don't think that Zaza is worth anything more than expiring contract at this point. 4 million for next season the way he has played isn't a bargain.

Shelden is probably worth an expiring contract plus a second round pick. I don't think that anyone would give up a first rounder for him. Even though its a rookie contract Shelden is owed 3.4 million dollars next season. Also given how little he has produced I don't think of that as a bargain.

[JoshB914]

What teams in the league could use Zaza or Shelden? None of them.

[Mr. Perfect]

The Suns could probably use Shelden Williams. He is supposed to be a good defender and rebounder, right? At least, he was at Duke.

[JoshB914]

He is a terrible defender and average rebounder.

I love the French Prince stuff by the way.

[conleyorbust]

I think that the one guy whose lost all his value is Salim. He had a decent rookie season, 12.54 PER and 38% from 3 as well as some really explosive scoring games.

I think Zaza and Shel still have some value although they have undoubtedly lost some of their luster. Shelden could have been traded for something nice right after last season after he had the month where he did a double-double and a block while shooting 60% from the field. He looked like a real player for a while.

Zaza had 2 productive seasons as a front-court scorer before this one, I doubt a team that really needs that sort of contribution would assume that he "lost" the skills he had. No doubt it'll be a tough sell but if a team is looking for rebounding they will look at Shel and if a team is looking for size and scoring they will look at Zaza. Obviously the issue is finding out which teams need those things enough to take a gamble on a player who isn't producing as much as he should.

Shelden wouldn't fit in well in PHX, at his best he is a poor man's Kurt Thomas without the man defense. Childress would fit in really well in PHX because in the past he has been able to hit open 3 pointers, he can rebound from the wings, he can score without holding the ball, and he runs the floor really well.

[JoshB914]

If anyone is willing to take either of those two players off of our hands I do it (as long as we don't take back a bad contract).

[conleyorbust]

This was a decent trade on the Gen. Board.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

Basically we give up Chil, Zaza, Lue, and a 2010 lotto protected 1st
We get Miller, Noel, and Booth

3 team, other teams are phlly and Mil

[HoopsGuru25]

This was a decent trade on the Gen. Board.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

Basically we give up Chil, Zaza, Lue, and a 2010 lotto protected 1st
We get Miller, Noel, and Booth

3 team, other teams are phlly and Mil

I'm not sure I would do that. That's comparable to what Denver gave up to get Iverson.

[JoshB914]

That was probably the best trade I've seen proposed on these boards. Usually all three team deals leave one team really ripped off. But that was fair for all teams.

[conleyorbust]

-= original quote snipped =-


I'm not sure I would do that. That's comparable to what Denver gave up to get Iverson.

You think? Denver gave up Miller and a couple of recent firsts for Iverson... I don't put Chil on Miller's level. Beyond that we give a protected pick two years down the road, a $4m contract we want to get rid of, and an expiring.

[HoopsGuru25]

That was probably the best trade I've seen proposed on these boards. Usually all three team deals leave one team really ripped off. But that was fair for all teams.

The Hawks would be getting ripped off. 2 months ago no one on here besides killbuckner even wanted to do Shelden/Lue/Wright for Miller/Booth but now you want to give up Chillz/Zaza/and a pick? That's better than what Denver gave up to get AI. If Philly trades Miller I guarantee it won't be for 100 cents on the dollar.

[HoopsGuru25]

-= original quote snipped =-



You think? Denver gave up Miller and a couple of recent firsts for Iverson... I don't put Chil on Miller's level. Beyond that we give a protected pick two years down the road, a $4m contract we want to get rid of, and an expiring.

Philly couldn't even get JR Smith(who was putting up 17 ppg at the time) in the trade. They got destroyed in that deal even though Denver was desperate for scoring after Melo's big suspension. All Philly got in the deal was Miller,Jason Smith,and Dallas extremely late meaningless 1st rounder which they ended up cutting anyway(Byars). You have to keep in mind that Zaza's trade value is ruined now...but last year I think Childres/Zaza/future protected pick or the Indy pick and expirings would have been heavily considered by Philly.

[JoshB914]

It's a lotto protected pick, a role player, and trash in exchange for the PG that could bring this team together and finally win us some games. It would make us better and I think Chillz is gone this summer anyway.

[conleyorbust]

When KB was championing that deal I was under the impression, a) Miller was going to be washed up b) Zaza wasn't going to be washed up c) Acie would be a consistent contributor by this point in the season.

Honestly, for the purposes of this deal I look at it as Chil and a 2010 lotto protected 1st for Andre Miller. Zaza and Lue are salary fillers and probably the best salary fillers we can find because Zaza has another year on his contract and isn't contributing. I still think Zaza has some positive trade value to the right team but I certainly wouldn't hold out of a trade because I thought Zaza could fetch us slightly more. Hell, if we subbed in Shel maybe we could keep our pick.

It seems a little like a desperation move but not the worst one out there. Miller is one of the few point guards on the market who is a legitimate starter, he doesn't have the contract of Kidd or the terrible shot selection and TO problems of Tinsley. He is fairly unselfish and can lead a great full court attack, the best alley-oop tosser in the game.

Bottom line though. We give up a backup at our strongest position for a starter in our weakest. Plus we might lose Chil this summer anyway, I'd love to unload him before we had to worry about that.

[HoopsGuru25]

There were few people on this board who even wanted to trade Miller for an exprings not that long ago. Now people are starting to jump on that bandwagon after realizing that AJ sucks.

AJ isn't as good as Miller...that's a ridiculous statement based on 2-3 weeks of good play. Even in AJ's best stretch of basketball in 3 years..he's still averaging 9 points and 6.5 assist a game this month while Miller is averaging 18 points and 8 assist a game this month...Miller also has the better chance of maintaining this play throughout the rest of the season as well. I also like the fact that Miller has has only missed 1 or 2 games in his entire career.

We've seen how good the Hawks can be with a decent point guard. If AJ continues to play this way(which is a big if) the Hawks will make the playoffs...If the Hawks had Andre Miller they will have a good chance of having home court in the 1st round of the playoffs. If we don't get Miller and Cleveland does then they will probably leap frog us in the standings real soon.

We are not a lock to make the playoffs..we are only a lock to make the playoffs if we can stay healthy and AJ continues to play like he did in December(which is not that likely IMO). I think Toronto,Washington,and maybe Cleveland(if they get Miller)have better rosters than us on paper and they could all be ahead of us in the standings by the time the season ends. I think the Hawks could potentially be the third best team in the East if they had Andre Miller.

Once the Hawks go out West and hit a tough stretch on the road...this board's opinion on Andre Miller and Anthony Johnson will change.

Keep in mind that we were the 4th seed when these comments were made.

http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=24
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=12

[conleyorbust]

Its possible Miller slows down next season but by that point he'll be a large expiring and therefore fairly attractive to teams looking to deal. The two things that would make me pause are whether this would affect the Smith resigning (although my thought is that this is a move that makes us a lock for the POs this season and if we get in they have to resign him) and whether or not management is going to make a serious run at Calderon in the offseason. I doubt they are because Calderon's play over the course of the season has virtually gauranteed he will be a rich man but if no other team puts the money out there its possible they resign him on the cheap.

[killbuckner]

Philly isn't going to want Childress because of his massive caphold. You would probably have to make it a 3 way deal.

[HoopsGuru25]

Philly isn't going to want Childress because of his massive caphold. You would probably have to make it a 3 way deal.

Philly gave up Miller and Evans for Villanueva,expirings,a future 1st and a second rounder. Stefanski would jump into my top 5 GMS in the NBA if he were able to pull that off. It won't happen though..if Philly traded Miller they are going to get a decent prospect back or a 1st(I don't think both)and if they may be lucky to get an expiring back for Miller and Evans.

[conleyorbust]

From each team's perspective I think its a fair deal. From the Hawk's perspective at least, unless we seriously pursue Calderon with a lot of $$$. For the Bucks, they aren't giving up that much for Chil and Evans and both those players fit in very well on that team (softness inside and too many scorers who need the ball to score). For Philly they get rid of Miller's contract and get a young PF who can space the floor. The only big change I'd make is to take out Atlanta's pick altogehter, or at least give it more protection.

I was against trading for Miller before for the reasons I named above, I have been coming around for the past few months and I am pretty firmly in the "get a point guard" camp and have been since we picked Horford over Conley (not that I necessarilly mind that selection).

What in that trade would you not be willing to part with? Can you think of a better trade to fill that need? If we can't find a better trade than that are we a worse team in the long run?

In my mind, I've come to the conclusion that losing Chil is fine as long as we get something that helps us back. I also think of Zaza and Shelden as "damaged goods", guys who are better than they have been playing but for various reasons won't be better until they leave. The future first is the only thing that really hurts. I wouldn't mind trading for Watson, Duhon, or Lowry but its questionable how much better of deal we'd get for them and a lot of people around here seem to want a more established player at that position. If we don't make this trade we aren't better in the long run because we still don't have a point guard and we have to worry about Chil's contract this summer, trading Zaza cuts down on how much taking on Dre's salary hurts us.