Shaking things up with the Kings

[evildallas]

This is a move to get us to the playoffs. It isn't one-sided for us and could backfire on us. Read and react please.

Outgoing:
Josh Childress SG/SF
Shelden Williams PF in need of a scenery change
Ty Lue PG expiring
Speedy Claxton well his salary goes down

Incoming:
Ron Artest SF mercurial SF
Beno Udrih PG expiring (needs resigned)
Kenny Thomas PF and Bad contract

Reason why for Sacramento:
Artest plans to opt out because he's no longer happy in Sacramento. Thomas is the bad contract they want to move. Udrih isn't getting enough PT now that Bibby is back. Might have trouble resigning him in off season.

They get Josh Childress who can be resigned to replace Artest. Lue fills the void for losing Udrih for the rest of this season. Sheldon Williams could blossom in a reasonable banger out from under Woodson. Speedy is cheaper by 3M a year than Thomas and the only way we take his contract.

Reason for Atlanta:
PG upgrade for the rest of the season and maybe longer if we resign him. Artest to provide scoring punch as 6th man and another option in the 4th quarter. If Artest opts out as he plans he was a rental for a playoff run. If he doesn't he expires next season. KT is overpaid but is a great clubhouse guy (from what I understand). Maybe the change in scenery allows him to play more minutes. The 3M he makes more than Speedy is offset next year by dealing Shelden and the following year by Zaza coming off the cap. That extra cap room is the cost of the rentals.

My appeal:
I don't see how we get better by investing in Childress long term, it just hurts our flexibility too much. So it is easy for me to move him for short term help. I've already made the case of how we can afford KT at the end of the bench rather than Speedy and Shelden. We sign another guy at league minimum and hope we get enough minutes over the next 2 years. Udrih can help us right now as he showed by running the Sacramento offense when Bibby was out. Artest may or may not opt out at the end of the year, but he brings enough to the table to get us into the playoffs. He improves us defensively although he isn't what he once was in that category. He can shoot a 3. He can take a guy one-on-one and get his own shot or to the line. Also the odds he suffers a meltdown in the few months he's here is fairly slim. If he opts out, we have plenty of cap room to resign Udrih and Josh Smith. If he doesn't, we can sign Udrih and Josh Smith without going over the luxury tax for 1 season. I do think he'd be willing to come off the bench because he'd still get starters minutes and he'd be a finisher.


AJ/Udrih/Law
JJ/West/Salim
Marvin/Artest
Josh/KT/Solomon
Al/Zaza/Lo Wright

[gtmike]

I would like it except for the fact that I can't see Artest wanting to come off the bench...the reason he wants out of Sac-town is b/c he feels like they are moving in a different direction with younger players (Salmons and Kmart) He could be a potential cancer in the locker room if hes not happy.

[HoopsGuru25]

Marvin came off the bench for Jackie Manuel so I'm sure he wouldn't mind going to the bench(for half a season)for Ron Artest. He could still get his 30 minutes per game just like Chils..infact he could even more minutes than Chils because Joe needs as much rest as possible. You have to remember that Artest gives us a better chance at bringing back more value than Chils in a sign and trade which couldn't hurt. The problem with this trade is Udrith though. If Sac decides to trade Artest you would think a Bibby trade would be coming soon after...which means that they would rather keep Beno.

I wonder if trading Chil/Lue for Artest would be enough and then we could flip expirings for Earl Watson. I would flip Chil/Lue for Artest(if they would do it) and then try to flip Shelden/Lo/Salim for Watson/Sene(if they would do it). We improve defensively,offensively,and pick up a project center...and next year Law and Sene could replace Zaza and AJ in our rotation. I hope some 1 from the Hawks front office reads this.

Watson/AJ
Joe/West
Artest/Marvin
Smith/Solo
Horford/Zaza

[evildallas]

HG25, I like the thought. Udrih was really the payment for taking on Kenny Thomas's salary which I would rather not do if we can get Artest in a straight deal. The rumor is that Sac is heavily shopping Artest because he's made it known that he plans to opt out at the end of the season. While that would likely mean a pay cut for him, it isn't hard to believe Artest means it. It wouldn't have to be Chill/Lue, it could be Chill/Shelden or Chill/Lo Wright to make the math work. Lue was included in my orignal post to give Sacramento a PG to replace Udrih which isn't necessary in just an Artest deal. Sacramento has the incentive to make the deal for Chill in that Chill would be an RFA with few teams even able to offer more than the MLE.

It doesn't matter which player starts unless personal ego gets into it. Both give a good amount of flexibility with substitutions, so rather than automatically sub at 6 minutes for the same player each time the sub pattern can focus on who's hot or not at the time. I actually have little concern about Artest becoming a locker room cancer in this situation. I think he'll fit in fine and enjoy the extra showcase time in the East figuring that if he does opt out it is most likely that he signs with an Eastern team. This stint gives a chance to impress them with his performance in a playoff chase showing off what he can still bring to a team.

Earl for expirings should be an easy deal to make. It makes too much sense for Seattle for them to pass on it. If Lue isn't used above he could be used here to make this deal happen.

[killbuckner]

No team is going to trade for speedy claxton. If he retires while on the Hawks then he completely comes off the cap- if he is traded then his new team gets no cap relief at all.

[HoopsGuru25]

HG25, I like the thought. Udrih was really the payment for taking on Kenny Thomas's salary which I would rather not do if we can get Artest in a straight deal.

I think Speedy and Kenny Thomas have equally bad contracts. Speedy because he can't play and Thomas is too bad to get off the bench. I think both teams would rather just keep their garbage. I also think the Shelden/Beno portion of the deal is heavily in our favor.

The rumor is that Sac is heavily shopping Artest because he's made it known that he plans to opt out at the end of the season. While that would likely mean a pay cut for him, it isn't hard to believe Artest means it.

I agree. They would have a much easier time re-signing Chil because he is a laid back guy(maybe he won't mind being in a small town)from Cali. Artest is a crazy New Yorker and there have been rumors about him wanting to go back to New York for a while now. The problem is that the Kings want David Lee in return for him...not going to happen.

It wouldn't have to be Chill/Lue, it could be Chill/Shelden or Chill/Lo Wright to make the math work. Lue was included in my orignal post to give Sacramento a PG to replace Udrih which isn't necessary in just an Artest deal. Sacramento has the incentive to make the deal for Chill in that Chill would be an RFA with few teams even able to offer more than the MLE.

I'm all for throwing in Lue in any deal. Shelden has a little more trade value though..which could be important in a future deal. Even Hoffa fetched another disappointing player in Humphries. Hopefully Shelden could get us one of Seattle's centers. I agree with you that they would want Chil. He would be a nice fit there.

It doesn't matter which player starts unless personal ego gets into it.

I think Marvin would be much more willing to come off the bench than Artest. I don't think it would be an issue because both Artest and Marvin would know in advance that their roles would be temporary.

, so rather than automatically sub at 6 minutes for the same player each time the sub pattern can focus on who's hot or not at the time. I actually have little concern about Artest becoming a locker room cancer in this situation. I think he'll fit in fine and enjoy the extra showcase time in the East figuring that if he does opt out it is most likely that he signs with an Eastern team. This stint gives a chance to impress them with his performance in a playoff chase showing off what he can still bring to a team.

Artest would really help this team down the stretch. He's a better defender(understatement of the century)than Childress and he can create his own shot. Our bench scoring and perimeter shooting would also be better. There is also a chance that a desperate team like Cleveland or New York would be willing to work out a sign and trade and we could get a future protected pick like we did with Harrington.

Earl for expirings should be an easy deal to make. It makes too much sense for Seattle for them to pass on it. If Lue isn't used above he could be used here to make this deal happen.

I'd be willing to trade expirings for Watson or Ridnour and I think Seattle probably wants to dump one of them. Watson/Ridnour and Sene for Shelden/Salim/Lo sounds good to me. I'd probably even consider the trade w/o Sene.

[td00]

The Kings are looking for a bigger bang than Josh Childress. He isn't even starting for us; do you think he gets that role in Sacramento?
Artest will not go without a replacement starter and a potential big man.
Shelden might be wanted, and he does need a change (a different coach because it is obvious Woody doesn't like him). This is where he and BK apparently differ. How does BK take someone at 5 that we don't play?

It will take the 2 Joshes to get Artest or Marvin and Shelden to get Artest, and that is a dangerous risk, a la JR Rider.

[conleyorbust]

The Kings are looking for a bigger bang than Josh Childress. He isn't even starting for us; do you think he gets that role in Sacramento?
Artest will not go without a replacement starter and a potential big man.
Shelden might be wanted, and he does need a change (a different coach because it is obvious Woody doesn't like him). This is where he and BK apparently differ. How does BK take someone at 5 that we don't play?

It will take the 2 Joshes to get Artest or Marvin and Shelden to get Artest, and that is a dangerous risk, a la JR Rider.

It wouldn't take Josh Smith + to get Artest. Artest is a great player but the Kings are asking for more than anyone is going to be willing to pay. You don't increase a player's value by admitting you don't want him on your team because he doesn't get along with your other players and he is always getting into legal trouble.

[evildallas]

Artest is threating to leave them with nothing in return at the end of the year. That lowers the price. Childress + Shelden is a reasonable price for both teams. At worst, maybe we take back a contract to help matters, but it should never get to the level of Josh Smith or Marvin. It isn't like we are getting long term Artest either. It is a trade for a playoff run and the chance to resign him when he opts out.

[td00]

But I think the same goes for the Hawks. While Artest loses value with his current team, the Kings aren't going to give him away for the sake of trading him.
The Hawks are the same in the way they value their players. BK is not going to take on a bad character or a bad contract. So you know there likely won't be any movement unless BK can pry Gasol away.
While we talk about what we could do to improve this team, I just don't see BK making any significant changes.
I don't think he would ever admit he made a Shelden or Marvin mistake.