Can Miller Save The Hawks?

[HoopsGuru25]

Note to PJA: it makes sense to everyone but BK

The Miller article makes sense and we have discussed it here for 2 years to try to get Andre here, but BK will not make any trade that someone else suggested. His ego is too big for that!
After the Shelden draft leak, you won't hear anything from our GM, who can't seem to either get the authority (which I don't believe), or just can't admit he made a mistake with one of the players he personally brought in here.
Personally, I would rather have a Kidd/Magloire combo to come here and give up our depth on the wings to try and make some noise in the playoffs this year. Our immediate future looks bleak with no #1 next year, so it will take some move of significance to energize this team.
Letting Woody or BK go probably will not happen as they were given 5 years to right the ship, and we aren't going to pay them for no performance.
Looking at this going forward, we need some experience on the frontline and in the backcourt. This would give Acie some time to gain confidence because Woody truly doesn't have confidence in Acie. It's not Boris Diaw bad, but it could be heading in that direction. Shelden's days as a Hawk under Woodson will be limited as well going forward.
There is just no quick fix to this; we have to spend some money to get a player or 2 to help us if we end up with the #7 or #8 slot, despite our weak record.

The Hawks need Andre Miller. I've been saying this for a while. The problem with that article is that he assumes Philly is just going to dump Miller for expirings to get more cap room. The Sixers would be getting fleeced by BK if they took 3 expirings and Solomon Jones for Andre Miller...I don't care how much cap space they would have. The only way I think they're going to get rid of Miller for expirings is if some team takes Willie Green or Reggie Evans with him...which is not likely to happen with so many teams scared of the luxury tax. I think they are going to end up keeping Miller and settling for a tier 2 free agent.

[smabie]

I disagree with this sentiment 100%. Miller is not a "great" PG, he's an adequate PG. He's not a 3-pt shooter, which is one of the main things that the Hawks *do* need. He's not only under contract for another full season, but gets paid 3 times as much as the Hawks current starting PG (AJ), and isn't outperforming him proportionally. Heck, the Sixers have played worse than the Hawks for the past year, and their roster isn't too different from ours, so he's not helping them much. He's only a year and a half younger than AJ, so we're not looking at going significantly younger, either. He's turned it over more often this season than every single Hawk except JSmith; and for his career, more often than everyone *including* JSmith. And according to what the GM of Philly is saying, he won't be a cheap buy; we're talking Marvin or Chill to get him, not Solo and a bunch of junk.

[Skyhawk1]

The Hawks need Andre Miller. I've been saying this for a while. The problem with that article is that he assumes Philly is just going to dump Miller for expirings to get more cap room. The Sixers would be getting fleeced by BK if they took 3 expirings and Solomon Jones for Andre Miller...I don't care how much cap space they would have. The only way I think they're going to get rid of Miller for expirings is if some team takes Willie Green or Reggie Evans with him...which is not likely to happen with so many teams scared of the luxury tax. I think they are going to end up keeping Miller and settling for a tier 2 free agent.

I agree with you on Miller. He's a soberb PG. If all the Sixers want is expiring contracts plus Shelden or J. Chill, I have no idea what BK is waiting on. We'll be a much better team when Miller joins this team. I believe this will happen. It's a no brainer.

[td00]

But the fact is, with the team we currently have, we will not make any progress in the playoffs.
I like Miller for his size, and I don't think he needs to shoot 3s. Providing he can cut down on his turnovers, and give AJ a rest (I don't see AJ going throughout the game), then I think giving up Chills and a combo of bench players would be more than adequate.
His contract is not insurmountable and he has experience to team up with AJ and feed the wings.
But like I said before, BK won't do it because it makes too much sense.
Chills and this bench is not moving us forward.

[JoshB914]

Even with Miller I don't know if we progress. We seem destined for a 7 or 8 seed (if we make it) and a matchup with Pistons or C's. I'll take that that happily though, I just want to get there.

[smabie]

Providing he can cut down on his turnovers, and give AJ a rest (I don't see AJ going throughout the game), then I think giving up Chills and a combo of bench players would be more than adequate.
His contract is not insurmountable and he has experience to team up with AJ and feed the wings.

Two things:

"Providing he can cut down on his turnovers"? He's been in the league 9 seasons now, and his career average is 2.8 per game. He /has/ cut down his TOs -- and it's still significantly worse than just about anyone on the team (except, as I noted, JSmith, whose numbers are abnormally high this season). Birds fly, fish swim, and Andre Miller turns over the ball worse than the guys already on the Hawks who y'all sit around and complain about being inferior PGs.

"give AJ a rest"? We have 2 official backup PGs -- Acie and Law -- who average nearly 15 minutes off the bench and the Hawks in addition are wont to use a no-PG lineup (usually with Chill and JJ as guards). Also, the PGs on the Hawks are about the only bench players other than Chill who do get regular playing time. AJ averages only 28 minutes per start, which is significantly less than any other starter on the team.

The two main problems with the Hawks don't involve AJ needing a rest. They involve (a) that when they have a lead, they have a very strong tendency to slow the tempo down to a crawl, and they are not built for that style of play, and thus give up leads very easily, and (b) they have a tendency of, when they need to score, of giving the ball to JJ in iso and not moving without the ball. Acquiring Miller doesn't solve any of these issues. They already have the answers to all these issues, and the ones you bring up, WITHOUT Miller, so there's no need to acquire him.

[HMFFL]

I want Andre Miller as well. However, what is the 1 1/2 year rental going to cost us and does it force the ASG to let Josh Childress walk at the end of the year?

I just doubt Philly's desperate to move Andre right now (Maybe next year). Even with Miller we're going to continue to have matchup problems to over come due to our lack of size. We have a lot invest between the 2-5, and often I feel we need more size among those positions to truly contend.

[magee]

While the deal works, the Sixers would want a first rounder, too. Atlanta wouldn't give one up. Also, the ownership is too cheap to bring in another superstar since they have to re-sign Josh Smith this year. Steve Blake or Jarrett Jack would be a better and more viable option.

[HMFFL]

The Hawks receive:
Andre Miller
Herbert Hill
Louis Amundson

The Sixers receive:
Tyronn Lue
Lorenzen Wright
Salim Stoudemire
Solomon Jones

Philly's desperate if they do a trade like this and I don't think they're that desperate right now. It's not even close to being the same situation at the Memphis one.

Philly will seek one of our proven young Hawks and possibly a future first. I'm thinking more on the lines of Josh Childress or they might want to see what Shelden can offer. Marvin Williams, Josh Smith and Al Horford should be off hands. Billy doesn't need to give up any of our future first at this time, not that he would, but it would be rather to even consider for a 1 1/2 year rental making 10 million per/year. We need to continue to have young talent come into the organization and not risk it.

Glad to see Patrick writing us another article and about something that obviously needs to happen.

[conleyorbust]

smabie, you are missing some key points. Miller is, and always has been, a very good open court point guard. In fact its safe to say he is close to the Kidd/Nash level of full court point guard-ing. Hypothetically, one way to keep the pace of a game up would be to have a point guard that excels at leading the break. Now there is always the argument that it wouldn't really matter because as long as Woody is the coach we will be forced to play Woody ball in the second half, but if that's the case than you have even more evidence against the guy.

In the end, you would be inserting an above average player at your weakest position. Miller hasn't been passing as much this season, but he has been scoring a lot more and has been highly effective in that capacity. That's largely because the team he is on gives a lot of PT to non-scorers. On Atlanta he would be passing to Johnson and Williams, who are better pure scorers than anyone on Philly, and Smith who is a comparable finisher to Iggy but could be better utilized off the ball because of his post skills and his speed mismatch against other PFs.

Dre' isn't a halfcourt liability either; he can nail the midrange jumper better than most, he has a good post game and he is a good player for penetration kick-outs. Joe wouldn't have the ball in his hands as much which would give him better looks from 3, where he is still decent (around 35% on the season but up from the 20s in November) and Marv has enough range and accuracy on his J to provide spacing. That gives you a fairly traditional half-court set with two inside players with streaky jumpers and 2 perimeter players with accurate jumpers and a point guard to handle the rock.

Ideally we'd get a point guard who could run the break well and be a 3 point marksman in the halfcourt but I don't think Phoenix is gonna make any moves to clear salary for this summer...

I'm not saying it makes us elite but it gives us a starter at every position. As of right now AJ is doing a solid job but looking at it objectively, he isn't nearly as much of a threat in the half court as Miller and he doesn't run the break as well. AJ would then share backup duties with Law.

[conleyorbust]

The Hawks receive:
Andre Miller
Herbert Hill
Louis Amundson

The Sixers receive:
Tyronn Lue
Lorenzen Wright
Salim Stoudemire
Solomon Jones

Philly's desperate if they do a trade like this and I don't think they're that desperate right now. It's not even close to being the same situation at the Memphis one.

Philly will seek one of our proven young Hawks and possibly a future first. I'm thinking more on the lines of Josh Childress or they might want to see what Shelden can offer. Marvin Williams, Josh Smith and Al Horford should be off hands. Billy doesn't need to give up any of our future first at this time, not that he would, but it would be rather to even consider for a 1 1/2 year rental making 10 million per/year. We need to continue to have young talent come into the organization and not risk it.

Glad to see Patrick writing us another article and about something that obviously needs to happen.

Why don't you think its similar to the Memphis situation? I'm not saying it is necessarilly but they have a similar reason to go after primarilly expirings. If they have their eye on a Brand/Arenas type, which has been rumored, and they want to extend Iggy and Lou they are gonna have to have a lot of dough and $8m or so of expirings certainly helps that.

If no contender gets desperate and throws a great offer at them, they can afford to wait until the deadline and drum up interest.

[tk76]

Just to pass on what is said in the Sixers forum, and what the new SixersGM talks about:

If the Sixers do nothing they have 35M coming off the cap this year (CWeb, McKie ect: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/philadelphia.htm )

The Sixers are way under the cap this summer. They can sign a FA to a 5 yr 60M contract (starting at 10-11M and then raises) and then still sign Iguodala and Williams. Even if they end up using their Bird rights and go a few mil over the cap, they will still be way under the luxury rax- and are owned by Comcast- who routinely keeps the Sixers at 70M+ combined salaries the past 5 years.

The only reason to move Miller is if they have identified a FA that is worth more than 12M next year (Brand?), but they would rather move Evans 4.5M to get there. Also, it doesn't look like there is a worthwhile huge ticket FA out there for the Sixers this summer.

The other reason to move him would be to land a top flight PF/C in a trade (like a Gasol.) That is more likely next season, where Miller will be a 10M expiring contract- just like Kwame's 10M contract was the linchpin of the Gasol trade.

Unless the new GM is totally blowing smoke- Miller will not be moved just to clear capspace. The Sixers just gave away Korver or an expiring just because they wanted to clear cap space without moving Miller(now at 10-12M even with Iguodala and Williams cap holds.)

[JoshB914]

^^^ That's a very good point. Miller should hold a lot more value at this time next year than right now.

[tha best]

can you send an email or something to atlanta spirit to sugest a trade for miller. if you can mention to get rid of whoever besides smith joe marvin horford and acie

[drewfogarty]

the 76ers will not make the trade listed on RealGM without a #1 pick involved. maybe with the old GM, but not the new one. Miller will help attract good free agents. it is crazy to think we would just give him away. I mean, think when Atlanta had all the cap space and you couldn't get anyone to come to Atlanta without overpaying.

if you want to keep your roster intact and keep you picks, look for another PG.

I don't know how much he has left in the tank, but Eric Snow might be a good option for Atlanta. you can trade WRight and Lue for him. his contract is less than millers and expires at the same time. he was a good passing pg and he would provide great leadership.

you really don't need an all star point guard to make the playoffs; Atlanta needs someone to distribute the ball to all the great scorers Atlanta has. additionally he always had a pretty good assist/TO ratio. he would also be a good mentor for Law IV.

I would fire the coach and bring in someone that runs the triangle offense before I trade away any core part of the Hawks. they need less tweaking than you think to be a playoff team in the EAST

just a view from a fan of another team, but man, I would love to see the hawks. they are way too talented to not make the playoffs in the east.

[drewfogarty]

Even if they end up using their Bird rights and go a few mil over the cap, they will still be way under the luxury rax- and are owned by Comcast- who routinely keeps the Sixers at 70M+ combined salaries the past 5 years.


the only reason why we were that much over was we had BK (the other one) at the helm. he loved to overpay mediocore talkent to long contracts.

also:
AI+ C-WEBB = way over the cap.

[tk76]

the only reason why we were that much over was we had BK (the other one) at the helm. he loved to overpay mediocore talkent to long contracts.

also:
AI+ C-WEBB = way over the cap.

That's true. But the Sixers aren't headed under the cap because they have some kind of cheap owner or management issues. Comcast will shell out the money if they can sign a star that will regenerate interest in the team. I don't see that FA in this years FA class, so they will have to trade for one, or wait until next season.

Neither of those scenarios involve trading Miller for only expirings.

BTW- the Sixers GM has hinted at wanting to go more athletic- and could go hard after Smith.

[evildallas]

RFA - if Josh Smith continues to change the game on both ends of the court then matching any offer becomes much more likely.

With the performance of Josh Childress of late, I'm starting to lean toward acquiring a PG like Earl Watson more than Andre Miller. I think Earl can give us a boost for less contract and just for expiring deals. As Childress racks up more impressive outings I see him as being used to bring in an impact 2/3 with range (Artest, Mike Miller, Maggette).

Really I don't expect either to happen. I expect the team to stand pat by playing well enough prior to the trade deadline to give false hope. Like tonight Lue played well, normally that doesn't happen. Woodson would still probably argue against replacing his security blanket.

[geeman]

http://hawks.realgm.com/articles/570/20 ... the_hawks/

[jagstang76]

I 100% agree PJA. 'Dre would help this team more than just about any other player that is potentially available. My hope is BK can realize this and make something happen.