John Johnson trade
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:22 pm
by geeman
Joe just don't look happy
I love Joe and I think it was the right move at the time
, but I think he is
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:26 pm
by JoshB914
Joe=Pippen. Is that a joke?
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:32 pm
by geeman
not skill wise! in the fact that scotty was a great second piece. I think joe is a great second option, but I do think he will EVER LEAD A TEAM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP! And I think his cap hit is around 14 mil this year
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:46 pm
by HoopsGuru25
gee Pip was an all-time great who played with an even greater player. Joe is just a very good player(last 2 years atleast). I think Dominique would have been a great 2nd option on a title because he was good enough to build a good team around but not a finals winner(like Pip). The Bulls won 55 games in 94 when Pip was clearly the best player on the team...I don't think Joe to be THE GUY on a 55 win team.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:27 pm
by Rip2137
I think Pippen was good enough to build a contender around. He led a 55 win team when the second best player was probably Pete Meyers.
...
GEEZ.
And that Portland team SHOULD have gone to the finals if they wouldn't have gone away from Steve Smith against Kobe(he was KILLING Kobe in that game)
But Pippen was one of the more amazing defensive players ever, offensively, I will seriously argue he was a more complete player than Joe in his prime(not as good a shooter though) and his playmaking skills were better. I know you said not skill wise, I just wanted to point that out.
I would compare Joe to Mitch Richmond in terms of what he can give a team honestly. He was always a solid scorer, could defend, but just didn't have the fire to lead a team. Joe lacks that fire too.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:39 pm
by conleyorbust
I understand the Pippen comparison, I think Joe would be a GREAT player to put next to Bron. He is a good defender, and would be better if he weren't so preoccupied with offense. Good enough ball handler and passer to run the offense at times and take pressure off of Bron. Good enough shooter and post player.
Nowhere near the defender, rebounder, or even passer that Pip was at his best but he could have the same effect.
Re: John Johnson trade
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:48 pm
by evildallas
geeman wrote:Joe just don't look happy
I love Joe and I think it was the right move at the time
, but I think he is
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:54 pm
by killbuckner
Josh Smith counts as around 7 million against the cap until he is resigned.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:55 pm
by Rip2137
My point is that I think the Pippen comparison was pretty unfair. People act like he just couldn't get it done if Jordan wasn't there when he had at least one West finals and one Eastern Semi(with a bs call helping to keep him out of the East Final). I say he had the tools to lead a team to the finals or championship.
I don't think Joe does.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:57 pm
by killbuckner
I still think Ray Allen is the perfect comparison. Just a great complimentary guy but just not someone who can lead a team by himself.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:00 pm
by Rip2137
killbuckner wrote:I still think Ray Allen is the perfect comparison. Just a great complimentary guy but just not someone who can lead a team by himself.
Yeah...good example.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:48 pm
by D21
An important point: we don't have enough shooter on this team. Joe plays not as good as last year, but he would get more open shots with another shooter on the floor, the defense would not have to only guard Joe.
So we need on more shooter at this time. If you trade Joe, we will have to get 2 guys who can shoot if you want to improve the team.
Having Areans only improve the PG position, but who will shoot ? Arenas, so the problem will be the same.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:35 pm
by BMF Jet Jaguar
ray allen>>>>>>>>>>>joe
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:21 am
by geeman
Chicago was my favor team of all time and I love Pippin. The Joe comparison was
Because I am of the opinion that Joe will never be THE leader to lead this team past the first round of the playoff and if money is an issue with ASG I rather use trade Joe and get a player (maybe Josh is the man) to lead this team. Has anybody noticed lately that Josh seems to be the leader on the floor that the other players look too. Also, he seems to have matured a lot (no melt downs) over the last year.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:32 am
by JoshB914
What is frustrating is that JJ has shown the ability to drive to the hoop but refuses to do it. This season he has not played well but he has also been an absolutely terrible leader. I've been disgusted with the way he has acted on the floor. This team desperately needs him to be a leader and he just refuses to get out of his comfort zone. He has been pathetic this year and is doing NOTHING that we pay him for. JJ wanted to be the face of a franchise. But he acts like he is afraid to take on that responsibility.
This is slowly becoming Smoove's team but we're still talking about a 22-year old. We need Joe to give this team some kind of direction right now. Woody is bad but every great team has an on-court leader.
Some people wanted to defend him saying how it was because of double teams. A lot of us had the blinders on and wrote this thing off as a bad stretch. Without realizing that the "stretch" was turning into over half a season. You could see this coming last year and I remember arguing with a lot of people about it. Something about JJ started to change last season, he didn't look comfortable. And it's gotten even worse this year.
The bottom line is Joe is just not a great player. And now that he's realized how hard it is to be a franchise player, he isn't working hard on the floor like he used to. And this season he has been a bad player because of it.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:22 pm
by Sonny_D1
Would you guys have any interest in Ben Gordon? I know he's up for an extension, similar to Childress, but if he can be locked up long term he might be a btter fit for you (as would Childress in Chicago).
If you're looking for some PG help as well, Duhon is an expiring that can help you this year. Something like:
BG & Duhon for Childress and filler (Lue or Johnson)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:27 pm
by JoshB914
I would do that deal. Although I doubt we'd resign either of those guys.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:27 pm
by dms269
Sonny_D1 wrote:Would you guys have any interest in Ben Gordon? I know he's up for an extension, similar to Childress, but if he can be locked up long term he might be a btter fit for you (as would Childress in Chicago).
If you're looking for some PG help as well, Duhon is an expiring that can help you this year. Something like:
BG & Duhon for Childress and filler (Lue or Johnson)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=
But how is BG a better fit for us? He would likely backup JJ at the 2, and will want to make twice as much as chill. He isn't a pg and playing him there would make us a worse team. Adding Duhon for Lue is great, but trading Chill for BG kills our depth at the 3 (aka only having Marvin there unless JJ plays some minutes there).
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:59 pm
by HMFFL
Joe needs a teammates that can take the pressure off him. He's not getting that out of any of his fellow Hawks. Josh Smith still needs to fine tune his shot before teams starting doubling him up.
I feel for Joe at times. On the other hand he's missed wide open shots this year and game winning layups.
I don't believe it's in our best interest to move Joe at this time.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:57 pm
by raleigh
John Johnson?