RealGM

Perhaps Jagstang voiced my own concern best in the Bibby sticky. However, no one responded to him, so I wanted to post it as it's own thread. It is in fact a separate topic as we are talking about how to resign the Joshs rather than focusing on Bibby. I appreciate any input. Jagstang's quote is below:

jagstang76 wrote:I only have one concern. I don't doubt the ASG's willingness to spend money to make this team a contender. What I don't know is can they legally resign Smoove and possibly Chill with the whole Belkin mess? I hope I just missed a resolution, but I haven't seen where they are able to spend more than the cap. If this is settled or will be settled by this summer, I have no doubt that we will at least resign Smoove. We likely can't keep Chill too, but maybe BK could work the first year of their contracts to where they can both fit under the cap until Bibby comes off. OR we might be able to resign them both with the idea that we're planning to trade Bibby at the deadline to avoid the luxury tax. I don't even know if that's feasible, but it might work if we're still hampered by the Belkin problem.

I'd be shocked if Chil is a Hawk next year.

I'd be shocked if Chil is a Hawk next year.

I felt that way BEFORE the trade. Nice to see everyone coming to grips with reality now.

mrhonline wrote:

I'd be shocked if Chil is a Hawk next year.

I felt that way BEFORE the trade. Nice to see everyone coming to grips with reality now.

I agree and having been saying the same thing. The only way to sign both now is to exceed the luxury tax to do so.

I've actually been putting out the take that it isn't in the team's long term best interest to sign Childress because that level of commitment ties our hands on some future moves. Even before the trade resigning both Josh's would leave us with little room to improve starting PG next year. Now we have a starting PG and can look at filling in the 6th man role more economically.

The big question is do we hold on to Josh Childress to make a playoff run and risk losing him for nothing or do we trade him to try to get something out of him realizing that we'll lose him?

I think the answer is hold because we can theoretically make a sign a trade in the off season and it is hard to find a reasonable deal that doesn't create a greater cap problem.

Right, I'd think that he would be worth a mid to late lottery pick. I don't konw how much PHX would be willing to spend on him but we could possibly get our pick plus Tucker/Strawberry out of him in the offseason i we do well enough to move the pick into the mid to late teens.

Again, I seriously doubt that this move would have been made if it meant not resigning Smith because that makes the team worse and almost certainly less profitable in the future (I see Smith as being the type of talent that gets major endorsements which is free marketing and brings publicity in the future).

I had the same feeling that we wouldn't bring in Bibby if it meant losing Smith, and I understand that it is probable we won't have Chill next year. Does anybody know the rules behind how we will resign Smith though, since it seems it will take us over the cap? That would help me and a lot of other fans understand what moves we might make from here.

Also, on a side note, I read in Sports Illustrated that we offered Josh Smith 45 million over 5 years and he turned it down. The writer said though that the Hawks hold that they will match any offer to Smith, but they likely won't have to pay him much (if any) more than what they offered because no one else would pay him more than that. I tried to find that article online so that I could provide a link, but couldn't. It was in an issue with Eli Manning on the cover and it was on the very last page.

Rod, Memphis could offer Smith something approximating $75M over five years if they wanted.

Something closer to $60M is more realistic.

The ASG continues to talk about keeping the players together and Josh Childress is included. While he's a large part of our bench, I just don't see us paying him the amount he's going to command, and pay the luxury tax also.

This trade basically clinches that Chillz isn't coming back. I have no issues with that.

One thing with Smoove is that if he doesnt get what he wants, he might just play out next year and then get a real big pay day. So even if we don't have to match any big offers we need to try and lock him up this summer.

I hope Raps get Childress.

We will resign Smith but not Childress, I think we will trade Childress before the trade deadline.

evildallas wrote:... The only way to sign both now is to exceed the luxury tax to do so.
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Not sure about that. If Childress gets 30M/5yrs, he could start at 5M, and if Smith gets 65M/5yrs, he could start at 11M, so both would count for 16M, added to 51M gives 67M.
I think the key thing is Speedy, because without him, the team has a better financial view. If Childress is needed here, management can decide to have a hard year next season, and then it could be OK the following season. Why? because if Speedy is retiring, he won't count. Then Bibby will be expiring, and if he improves this team, he could be re-sign but certainly more around 10M than 15M, so it frees up 5 more Millions. Speedy and Bibby situations at the end of next year could give 10M$.

The best we can hope is the Hawks improve and make playoffs this year, then everybody start to think of the DET example, which would mean keeping both Joshes at decent salaries like I said just above, and that Bibby, and even Joe the following year, won't ask for too much money and think about building a contender. They have to think like that.

Rod700 wrote:I had the same feeling that we wouldn't bring in Bibby if it meant losing Smith, and I understand that it is probable we won't have Chill next year. Does anybody know the rules behind how we will resign Smith though, since it seems it will take us over the cap? That would help me and a lot of other fans understand what moves we might make from here.
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You can go on the salaries thread to understand, it's here and the thing to know is we can officially give the contracts we want to both Joshes, going over the cap or not.

Is Childress not one of your core players?

You guys are missing my point. My concern isn't IF they can figure out how to keep Smoove and Chill, it's about if the can do it with the Belkin litigation hanging over their heads. Does anyone know if that is still an issue? Because if it is, you probably can forget resigning either player. They'd have to make some major moves this offseason in order to clear enough cap to resign them.

IMO, Chill is core but is not a starter so he seems more expendable. He'd make a great addition to a playoff team's bench or a potential starter for a rebuilding team. However, I really think BK is going to try and find a way to keep him. Smoove is definitely the priority, but Chill provides so much to the team that it would be stupid not to try and keep him. I'm sure that there's a way to do it, but it will definitely mean spending more than the cap. That's why I worry about the legal side of things more.

jag I think the last court ruling ruled that the Hawks no longer had to have Belkin's approval to give contacts longer than 4 years or to go over the salary cap. Those contract restrictions are pretty much gone. I don't think the Hawks would have went after Bibby if they thought Belkin could veto a move like re-signing Josh Smith if it takes us over the salary cap.

Belkin no longer has veto power. The courts are back trying to determine how much the ASG owes him but they have determined he doesn't have the right to buy out the other owners at cost so there isn't any need to protect his interests anymore.

their is a slight possibility that Bibby could be traded after this season.

Skar wrote:We will resign Smith but not Childress, I think we will trade Childress before the trade deadline.

How's about this deal?

Hayes/Murray/Afflalo/08 1st for Chill

Hayes is a good, cheap, expiring SF, Murray is hot/cold but could be valuable if Bibby got hurt, Afflalo is already looking like a stud defender and is on a cheap rookie deal, 08 pick comes in handy(even though it will be a late one) since you guys will most likely lose this years to Phoenix. We could add in Toronto 2nd rounder if need be.

This may be a lot for Detroit to give up considering they will have to resign him, but such is the price of business.

Sorry if this is considered slightly OT

EDIT- we may be able to add Brezec/Herrmann for Zaza into the deal to save ATL even more $.

Take Murray out of that and I would do it.

That trade would put Detroit over the top for sure. Childress would be great coming off that bench.