I do not think I am the only one who thinks that Marvin has been disappointing thus far in his career. Please do not make excuses for him, lot of young players come into the NBA and blossoms from the get go.
He is averaging 15.2 ppg this season (that is only a 2.1 improvement from last season) His rebounding is horrible for a three at 5.8 per game and his 3-point shooting is just terrible for a three, which really hurts his team.
Overall he is putting up role player numbers which would be great is he was supposed to be a role player. I don
The official not satisfied with Marvin Williams development
Moderators: dms269, HMFFL, Jamaaliver
The official not satisfied with Marvin Williams development
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atlsun
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HMFFL
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Atowngetdown wrote:theres no room for him to improve. I would like us to trade him for a BIG ,move Josh Smith back to the SF & Hoford back to PF. If we keep him, I would want him to have the ball more so he can get his game up.
Doesn't fix the problem since Josh Smith is far from being a consistent shooter. We still need our 3 to be capable of knocking down a 3 pointer and Josh can't even do that very well.
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conleyorbust
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Well lets be fair, he isn't a "horrible" rebounder at the 3 spot. He is around average (a little better) for that position... you'd hope he could grab more because he is 6'9 with long-ass arms but to say he is horrible is innaccurate (of course he is basically the backup PF this season so it hurts us more than it should).
Anyway, I don't see him ever becoming a "star" so if we can move him to a team that would give us a good package for him, I'd be for it. He was showing signs of being a really deadly scorer earlier in the season but he must have a problem with conditioning because he has just disappeared.
I don't imagine there is anyone who isn't disappointed with the pick itself and its becoming easier to become disappointed with Marvin the player since he doesn't seem to "want it".
I also think that our development staff is pretty terrible. He will never become what people thought he'd be, he's probably better off elsewhere unless he can develop a 3 point shot and off the ball game on offense and become a lockdown perimeter defender on the other end.
Anyway, I don't see him ever becoming a "star" so if we can move him to a team that would give us a good package for him, I'd be for it. He was showing signs of being a really deadly scorer earlier in the season but he must have a problem with conditioning because he has just disappeared.
I don't imagine there is anyone who isn't disappointed with the pick itself and its becoming easier to become disappointed with Marvin the player since he doesn't seem to "want it".
I also think that our development staff is pretty terrible. He will never become what people thought he'd be, he's probably better off elsewhere unless he can develop a 3 point shot and off the ball game on offense and become a lockdown perimeter defender on the other end.
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tontoz
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Overall he has been disappointing.
He is starting to show signs of becoming better at finishing inside. He isn't diving into people as much and throwing up garbage. He is showing a floater and a short jumper.
he hit a nice step back J last game. His midrange jumper has been maddeningly inconsistent though.
The bottom line is that he needs to be at least an average 3 pt shooter to really help the team.
He is starting to show signs of becoming better at finishing inside. He isn't diving into people as much and throwing up garbage. He is showing a floater and a short jumper.
he hit a nice step back J last game. His midrange jumper has been maddeningly inconsistent though.
The bottom line is that he needs to be at least an average 3 pt shooter to really help the team.
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dms269
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HMFFL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Doesn't fix the problem since Josh Smith is far from being a consistent shooter. We still need our 3 to be capable of knocking down a 3 pointer and Josh can't even do that very well.
Exactly. Moving Smith to the 3 would make us a worse team. We would have a guy who can't hit the 3 taking more 3's (and not making them).
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Lue_4_MVP
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Even with okay stats this year, I am thoroughly unimpressed with Marvin. His game looks relatively unchanged - a lot of midrange jumpshots early on, many awkward drives, disappears as the game goes on.
It's unfair to compare Marvin to Paul, who will probably be one of the faces of the league for the next decade, but even compared to a fellow SF in Granger, who was not even a lottery pick, Marvin's improvement underwhelms at best.
It's unfair to compare Marvin to Paul, who will probably be one of the faces of the league for the next decade, but even compared to a fellow SF in Granger, who was not even a lottery pick, Marvin's improvement underwhelms at best.
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betta1
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I don't think Smith at the 3 is a great idea, although losing Marvin's shooting would not be the main concern:
3PTs the season:
Smoove: 20
Marvin: 0
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=769418&start=0
3PTs the season:
Smoove: 20
Marvin: 0
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=769418&start=0
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atlsun
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conleyorbust wrote:Well lets be fair, he isn't a "horrible" rebounder at the 3 spot. He is around average (a little better) for that position... you'd hope he could grab more because he is 6'9 with long-ass arms but to say he is horrible is innaccurate (of course he is basically the backup PF this season so it hurts us more than it should).
.
He is a 6'9 240 and a very good athlete, and like you said he is our back up 4 so 5.8 is a horrible rebounding number for him.
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atlsun
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Lue_4_MVP wrote:Even with okay stats this year, I am thoroughly unimpressed with Marvin. His game looks relatively unchanged - a lot of midrange jumpshots early on, many awkward drives, disappears as the game goes on.
It's unfair to compare Marvin to Paul, who will probably be one of the faces of the league for the next decade, but even compared to a fellow SF in Granger, who was not even a lottery pick, Marvin's improvement underwhelms at best.
I always used to compare granger to marvin but now I dont because he is having way a better season than him. If I could trade marvin for him I would do it.
Marvin really should be having a better season than this, this is his contract year too.
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JoshB914
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Marvin seems to have hit the "rookie wall" in his third NBA season. He also did that to some extent last year. It is inexcusable for him to be playing like this, but I do like the fact that he appears to me forcing the issue a little more. That being said, he should be much further along and conditioning should not be an issue for a 3rd year pro.
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Rip2137
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Well, one that wrist injury right before the Allstar break put off his jumper.
But he kept taking it and not driving.
He is also driving less and not getting to the line as much. Part of it is he isn't getting the calls he was getting earlier and he also developed Zaza-itus. When you go to the rim with no intent on making the shot just trying to draw the foul so you just flail in the air and throw the ball up. refs aren't going to give you that, and that is what Marvin has been doing.
Point is, earlier in the year, the Office was JJ/Marvin/Smith
As the season went on it turned to JJ/Smith/Lue or AJ/Marvin. He wasn't getting the catches off the screens that he was getting earlier, he wasn't getting iso'd when he had a mismatch(they still aren't doing that).
They also aren't focusing on him when he is the PF. When he is the PF he is always going to be the biggest mismatch on the court because off the dribble he can get by pretty much any 4 in the league. But they are no longer going to him in that situation.
But the bottom line is, when you are in a starting lineup where all 5 guys are going to be in double figures, 15.6 is a good number(although it is something like 11 a game since the injury). Put him on a team with fewer offensive options and that number will really jump. But you have a guy over 20, smith at 18, Bibby taking his shots, and Horford starting to dance at the double figure average. That is 60-65 points per game out of those 4 guys. No one should have monster scoring numbers on this team.
I like his development although he is going through a impressive slump. But hey, if he picks it up at any point til the rest of the season, his slump still isn't as long as JJ's who seems to have gotten a reprieve for his craptacular season over the last couple of weeks with most of you.
I don't think its fair to say that a 3rd year player who is in a slump is a sign of not developing and thus makes him a role player at best when the star, max salary player is just now coming out of a 4 month slump.
But he kept taking it and not driving.
He is also driving less and not getting to the line as much. Part of it is he isn't getting the calls he was getting earlier and he also developed Zaza-itus. When you go to the rim with no intent on making the shot just trying to draw the foul so you just flail in the air and throw the ball up. refs aren't going to give you that, and that is what Marvin has been doing.
Point is, earlier in the year, the Office was JJ/Marvin/Smith
As the season went on it turned to JJ/Smith/Lue or AJ/Marvin. He wasn't getting the catches off the screens that he was getting earlier, he wasn't getting iso'd when he had a mismatch(they still aren't doing that).
They also aren't focusing on him when he is the PF. When he is the PF he is always going to be the biggest mismatch on the court because off the dribble he can get by pretty much any 4 in the league. But they are no longer going to him in that situation.
But the bottom line is, when you are in a starting lineup where all 5 guys are going to be in double figures, 15.6 is a good number(although it is something like 11 a game since the injury). Put him on a team with fewer offensive options and that number will really jump. But you have a guy over 20, smith at 18, Bibby taking his shots, and Horford starting to dance at the double figure average. That is 60-65 points per game out of those 4 guys. No one should have monster scoring numbers on this team.
I like his development although he is going through a impressive slump. But hey, if he picks it up at any point til the rest of the season, his slump still isn't as long as JJ's who seems to have gotten a reprieve for his craptacular season over the last couple of weeks with most of you.
I don't think its fair to say that a 3rd year player who is in a slump is a sign of not developing and thus makes him a role player at best when the star, max salary player is just now coming out of a 4 month slump.