Agree or Disagree: One year extensions for BK and Woody?

fo_o_fo_404 · Post #1 » by **fo_o_fo_404** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 2:29 am

Out of curiousity, I want to know how my fellow realgm'ers feel about the job BK and Woody have done THIS season....Woody especially. With the team potentially winning 40 games if we take care of business these last five and making the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs....would it be fair for the ASG to fire both at the end of the season?

Woody's excuses all along were a) we completely rebuilt the team from scratch four years ago and now the playoff vision is coming to fruition; and b) he never had a legitimate PG to run the team.

Since landing Bibby, we are 14-13, and I really believe that Bibby's comfort level started to really show during the Clippers visit here last month. Since Bibby has gotten comfortable with Woody's offense, the Hawks are 10-2. And with his penchant for being a game changer in the playoffs, expect more to come from him.

But would you guys be opposed to the ASG giving BK and Woody a one year extension to have an entire year with this group of guys? I would really like to see what would happen next season with this core group (of course resigning Chills and Smoove).

I think it would be wrong (in all fairness to BK and Woody)to axe them when things are just starting to get good.

JoshB914 · Post #2 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 2:43 am

I don't want to see either back, but I could live with him coming back next season. This team has shown real progress since BK stopped ignoring the PG position. As for BK, the sooner we rid ourselves of him the better.

Of course the reality is that a one-year deal is a disaster for a coach. The players will not listen to a coach with that little stability.

evildallas · Post #3 » by **evildallas** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:14 am

Disagree.
1st I don't feel they earned extensions.
2nd 1 year extensions are dangerous. The lame duck syndrome rarely results in good things. It is far more likely that a lame duck loses the team. I thought this happened earlier in the year before the big trade.

If Woodson manages to win a playoff series, then I would soften my stance against him. I actually feel it will take 2 series wins for him to earn a 3 year deal.

I'm not sure if anything can get me to support BK. He's not the worst GM, but he's lower 3rd. He's made good moves this year, but I'm hesitant to reward someone for ignoring the obvious for over 3 years and then finally getting it.

ATLfan · Post #4 » by **ATLfan** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:56 am

I'm fine with keeping BK for another year but I want to see how Woody does during the stretch run.

plusjay · Post #5 » by **plusjay** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 5:25 am

thats gonna be like isiah thomas getting extension for what knicks did at the end of last year(or was it the year before..)

The_Floydian · Post #6 » by **The_Floydian** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 7:31 am

If this team makes the playoffs, Woody deserves none of the credit. The Hawks win in spite of their head coach the vast majority of the time.

perthwildcat · Post #7 » by **perthwildcat** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 10:03 am

I've always said id like to see BK finish what he started... He's made mistakes but in the end he's managed to put a half decent out fit on the court...

Now..

1. ATM we have no draft picks this yr...
2. Two or three useful bench players...

Do i have any faith that BK can improve our bench this off season?
Why not? He has a core (thats the hard bit).
Will the owners pony up the cash to bring in some help? Doesnt matter who the GM is if they dont have money they cant help this problem....

So id keep him around a bit...

Also I think it comes more to who do we replace them with?

Is it better the devil you know than the devil you dont?

conleyorbust · Post #8 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 1:43 pm

Knight's 06' offseason was the one where he tried to fill holes by finding affordable, quality FAs. It was a disaster. This offseason we need to adress our massive depth problem by find affordable, quality FAs. I have very little confidence in BK's ability to do that. He did a good job of getting rid of our bad contracts but I wouldn't say he has been adequate in any other facet of his job.

As far as Woody, in the preseason I predicted we would be a near .500 team and Woody would get the Sam Mitchell treatment. Fortunately no one has gone that far (on a side note, the novelty of Sam Mitchell's newfound coaching ability wore off in T.O. and he looks clueless as an in-game strategist again). I'd like to see Woody gone for a variety of reasons. He still makes a ton of mental errors during games, he has very stupid habits that he refuses to give up regardless of the situation - always sitting a guy with 2 PFs and always playing Chil in the 4th even if he is getting absolutely torched, the entire coaching staff has done a pathetic job with player development, and I think he still has problems getting along with his players.

Neither one of them deserves an extension. Someone could make the argument that Woody would be better evaluated with another year but I think that even in the best conditions he is a subpar coach who pushes a boring style of play and this team is at a place where it needs a more creative impetus.

LL Cool Scott · Post #9 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 1:44 pm

I could care less about Woodson. I've said it a million times before - PLAYERS win or lose ballgames in the league, not coaches (with a few extremely rare exceptions). Our coach is not going to affect our future positively or negatively.

If the Knightmare is given a new contract, I am not going to renew my season tickets. Simple as that. I will boycott their games until he is sent to terrible GM heaven.

JoshB914 · Post #10 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 2:05 pm

Thank you, LL. We get Bibby and all of a sudden we appear to have a real offense. Did Woody change anything? No, our idiotic GM just finally realized that it might be important to have a legit PG. Our recent run is an indictment of BK's failures, all we needed was a decent PG and he has failed miserably in getting us one.

The NBA is about personnel before coaching. Did Doc Rivers magically remember how to coach? Did Pat Riley forget how to coach? We need the horses to compete, and our GM doesn't seem to understand how to get us there.

M301E814W404 · Post #11 » by **M301E814W404** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:26 pm

DISAGREE...DISAGREE

I don't even care if we win it all, BK and Woody must got

Woody has proven to be completely incompetent. IMO, the reason we are winning games right now is because our team is a lot better talent wise than our opponents (and yes that includes Orlando) and they have starter to get. It has nothing to do with Woody.

As far as BK goes, honestly, the way our salaries plan out, and the amount of cap used up, this team probably doesn't need a gm at all. With that being said, BK turned against the owners and has made enough bad moves to not deserve another season.

If I had to pick one, I would bring BK back about a million years before Woody.

Rip2137 · Post #12 » by **Rip2137** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:27 pm

Oh you guys and your "coachs don't make a difference" talk.

Coachs will win and lose games with substitution patterns, making adjustments, proper matchups and such.

You can't blame Josh Childress for not being able to defend TJ Ford off the dribble. You blame Woody for putting him on TJ ford. Thats Woody's fault.

You guys are defending a guy that once again called a timeout while the team was on a run last game(7-0 run....TIMEOUT HAWKS...WHAT???)

Then Marvin has it going, scores 4 in a row...pull him for Childress now.

Yes it is a combination of players and coaching that will win games. I don't think you can seriously look at Philly's team and say they are better than us talent wise. They are tremedously coached though.

Look at Portland. They have looked better than us for the past few years. They had a horrible record last year, but they were still well coached, just were making alot of mistakes.

I still don't see how people can advocate keeping a HORRIBLE coach. I also think that while BK hasn't done a great job, its a little unfair to expect him to win with a guy he doesn't want to coach the team. Yes he hired him, saw it wasn't a fit, tried to fire him and wasn't allowed to. I would extend him a bit.

Woodson...no.

tontoz · Post #13 » by **tontoz** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:31 pm

They both should be gone next season. Their track records are self explanatory.

Rip2137 · Post #14 » by **Rip2137** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 3:46 pm

The problem is, BK has an argument. He drafted Josh Smith(allstar in the making) Al Horford(rookie of the year), traded for Joe Johnson in what has turned out to be a pretty cheap deal(the draft picks have been no big deal and Diaw has come back down to earth) and traded for Bibby using just expiring contracts (and a way to get people to forget that he drafted Sheldon Williams number 5)

Even his "bad" picks of Marvin Williams(which had ownerships glowing approval at the time) and Josh Childress are good (marvin) or great (childress) at their roles. His biggest hickup is the Speedy Claxton situation(which he could argue was just a injury related and he couldn't ahve known...although there is no way Claxton getting injured should have been a suprise) and the Sheldon drafting (which has been covered up somewhat by the Bibby trade).

He actually has footing to stand on. Woodson...well...he kinda is just horrible. ANd you get to see how horrible he is night in and night out. People always wonder what happens to the Hawks in the 3rd quarters? Good coaches adjust to stop what the other team was doing in the first half. Just because you are winning doesn't mean that you don't make adjustments both offensively and defensively. Woody does neither if they are up and the third quarters are brutal. Just another way the coaches can lose games.

JoshB914 · Post #15 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:05 pm

BK has no argument whatsoever. He saddled this roster with redundant players and completely ignored the PG position.

Think about it, guys. If we have Bibby from day 1 we are a .500 (maybe more) ball club right now, and the fire Woody talk is non-existant.

But why did we not have anyone close to Bibby's level (and he's only an above average PG) after five years of BK? Was it Woody's substitution patterns that resulted in the Lue/AJ/IV disaster? I said it all season, if we got a PG on this team everything would suddenly look a lot better. And guess what? We get Bibby in here and we're winning and dropping 100+ per game.

No one is advocating Woody as coach. But it's hard to tell what an HC is capable of when he is handed such a ridiculously flawed roster.

tontoz · Post #16 » by **tontoz** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:06 pm

Rip2137 wrote:Even his "bad" picks of Marvin Williams(which had ownerships glowing approval at the time) and Josh Childress are good (marvin) or great (childress) at their roles. His biggest hickup is the Speedy Claxton situation(which he could argue was just a injury related and he couldn't ahve known...although there is no way Claxton getting injured should have been a suprise) and the Sheldon drafting (which has been covered up somewhat by the Bibby trade).

No mention of Shelden among the bad picks?

Our expectations of Childress have gotten so low that nobody even bothers to criticize him when he gets only 2 points and 1 rebound in a critical game.

tontoz · Post #17 » by **tontoz** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:12 pm

Woody has no case either. His incompetence is obvious.

Just as one random example lets look at Horford. he has fouled out of one game all season. He played 43 minutes in that game. So why does he constantly get pulled when he gets into even mild foul trouble, especially since there is such a big droppoff when Zaza comes in?

If Horford picks up his second foul in the first quarter his night is pretty much over. or if he picks up his 5th with 5 minutes left he automatically gets pulled. WTF are you saving him for?

JoshB914 · Post #18 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:13 pm

tontoz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

No mention of Shelden among the bad picks?

Our expectations of Childress have gotten so low that nobody even bothers to criticize him when he gets only 2 points and 1 rebound in a critical game.

Yep. Nothing against Chillz, but I don't want a role player with a pick that high.

conleyorbust · Post #19 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:36 pm

Rip, you can go through everything BK has done since he's started rebuilding the team and find a great thing (Smith) and a few good things (Bibby, Joe, and Al). You can also go through and find a whole bunch of stupid things... and a huge problem hasn't been the bad moves he HAS made but the good ones he hasn't - waited for so long to find a point guard, didn't replenish the roster after the Bibby trade, couldn't use his second rounders to find productive bench players, etc.

... and to an extent he will always be judged by Chris Paul and its not entirely unfair considering a large portion of the fan base was pining for the kid, especially after he came out and asked to play here.

The_Floydian · Post #20 » by **The_Floydian** » Mon Apr 7, 2008 4:47 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Think about it, guys. If we have Bibby from day 1 we are a .500 (maybe more) ball club right now, and the fire Woody talk is non-existant.

If you can't see how incompetent Woody is in all areas of coaching, then there's not much point arguing about it. I'm pretty sure he checks on his fantasy team during halftime.