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From philly.com

The Hawks desperately needed Saturday night's victory as they attempt to secure a playoff berth for the first time in 9 years.

"We started out with a team that was gutted, and [left with] nothing but babies, young guys that you're trying to groom as professionals on and off the floor," said coach Mike Woodson, a former Sixers' assistant. "If people expect you to win, they're not real, they're not fans, they're not basketball people; they're not being real to our team, they're not being real to me.

"I've been around a lot longer than these guys. I've just got to stay the course. I can't worry about what people are saying. I know darn well it's hard to win with a young team in any sport.

"If you're always looking over your shoulder from a job security standpoint, you can't do your job. I've never been insecure about what I do. I work my butt off every day; I expect our players to do the same."

I'm not sure the context of Woodson's statement, if he is trying to excuse the first 2 years of his tenure, then I can understand. If he is saying that the expectations are unrealistic the last two years then I have an issue with it. Particularly, I thought the message at the start of this season was that "Young wasn't going to be an excuse anymore". I root for the Hawks, but I'm tired of this coaching staff and would love to see a different approach coach in.

Woody just sounds frustrated. His GM has given him very little to work with and has tried to fire him three times this season. It bothers me the most that BK tried to fire Woody right after the Bibby trade. Probably because he didn't want people to realize that his flawed roster was the main reason we were losing rather than the HC.

I have no problem saying that Mike Woodson has been judged in sub-optimal conditions. The 13 win season can almost be thrown out as it was his first as a HC and he had a ridiculous roster that was in constant flux outside of the rooks.

That being said, he has been here for 4 years and his contract is up. At some point you have to make a decision and not keep giving the guy a pass.

I have seen no positives from him in terms of development of players beyond their own offseason work (although that has a lot to do with the staff as a whole, it can also be put on him as a coach that has trouble putting his players in a position to excel), he has clashes with players, he has bad habits that haven't disappeared, and most telling - we rarely pull out games that we aren't supposed to win.

Woody doesn't understand basic coaching. It's obvious. He should be gone as soon as the season ends.

This team should easily be over .500. Any average coach would have it that way. Woodson may be a good guy, but he has to go if we want this team to ever have any success. Making the playoffs is nice, but when you make it under .500 just to get swept by the 1 seed, it isn't too special.

^^^ With Bibby we are 14-13, so we are above .500 after our GM decided to give Woody a legit PG. I'm not defending Woody here, but this just goes to show that personnel means far more than coaching.

Thanks to the easiest stretch of games ever.

wow 14-13 with Bibby? gosh let's bang the drums. You do realize at one point we were 18-19 at week 12? You add a superstar and we only go 2 games better in a 27 game stretch? I'm not a Woody basher, but you have a hard on for BK. Just admit it as such.

Sultanofatl wrote:wow 14-13 with Bibby? gosh let's bang the drums. You do realize at one point we were 18-19 at week 12? You add a superstar and we only go 2 games better in a 27 game stretch? I'm not a Woody basher, but you have a hard on for BK. Just admit it as such.

What? I can't stand BK I was not defending him. And Bibby is no superstar.

JoshB914 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



What? I can't stand BK I was not defending him. And Bibby is no superstar.

no I mean you're a BK basher. Your defending Woody by saying after Bibby we went 14-13 and faulted BK for our prior record. I'm saying 18-19 against better opponents with the same cast we had before the Bibby trade is an indictment against Woody not BK.

I'm not defending Woody as much as I am bashing BK. The fact that we suddenly became a legit squad when he FINALLY addressed the PG situation speaks volumes. Once again, BK ignored or screwed up the PG situation time and time again- he tried to play JJ there and said a PG didn't matter, he signed an aging vet with injury problems in Speedy, he traded a 2nd rdr for a backup in AJ etc. The result was an awful offensive team which everyone pinned on Woody.

Then BK finally figures it out and we're averaging over 100 PPG. I wonder why that is? Did Woody suddenly change his offense? I don't feel comfortable having a GM that takes five years to figure out how to fill what is arguably the most important position on the floor.

I feel like I've said this a million times, I don't think Woody is a good coach. But when it comes to the damage done to this organization he is no where close to BK level.

but how is 14-13 legit? We were 7th in the east and pretty much unchallenged at 21-26. With no major injuries we dropped out of the playoffs lol. That same 21-26 squad was under coached by Woodson. You admitted it so really my point is moot. You have hate for BK so any analysis by you is tainted at best.

One question: Why are we averaging over 100 PPG since the All Star Break?

you should also ask why our defense has gone down the tubes recently.

i don't have anything against woodson but it's obvious that he underachieved this season. i could give him a pass on the first two years, but the third year really soured me onto him.

as for BK i'm not for canning a man for what he did over 2 yrs ago. it's more what have you done for me lately. i can see why thomas needs to get canned, i can see why mchale needs to get canned, i can even see why ainge needed to get canned. but over the past two yrs i havent seen many bad plays. he got a vet like anthony johnson when we needed him to try to salvage the 06-07 season (i don't think any other point guards were traded during that deadline) he drafted right in Al Horford (with mike conley we don't sniff the playoffs) he picked up a true defender in mario west (only toronto did a better job of picking up an undrafted rookie in jamario moon) and then he got bibby for what amounts to a busted 1st rounder (got something out of him) and three vets that weren't going to be a part of the team next year.

still with that said, there was good reason to can woodson. you don't nose dive at the beginning of the year and we are in the playoffs. you don't lose to seattle and we're in the playoffs. you don't get embarrassed by portland twice and we're in the playoffs. you don't melt down repeadedly in the third quarter and we're in the playoffs. getting bibby should mean that we are close to the #4 seed right now instead of clawing for #8.

We're averaging 103.9 scored and 104.9 given up, since the All Star Game.

In 14 wins, we're averaging 109.6 for and 100.2 against.
In 13 losses, we're averaging 97.7 for and 110 against.

Mike Woodson is (supposedly) a defensive-minded coach.

Me, I'd like to believe that they're winning because they have Mike Bibby.

But, realistically, they're winning because they don't have Tyronn Lue or Anthony Johnson or Shelden Williams anymore (and blame BK all you want for Shelden, but he was hardly the only one making that decision). They're winning because Zaza and Acie and Salim have been getting more playing time during that stretch. And they're winning despite Mike Woodson, not because of him.

[Hawks are allowing] 50 or more points by halftime in 14 of their 21 games since the All-Star break, including each of the past three.

That's why. You see if you aren't playing defense the game pace is faster. Faster pace more shots. More shots more points. Oh and I will give Bibby credit for the 3 pt. range he has brought to the team. But we were winning at a comparable rate with a more defense oriented team. So I don't see your point.

We get Bibby and all of a sudden we are a much more competitive team (if you want to argue otherwise than I'm not sure what to say). For two years, I said all s that Woody's unimaginative offense would look a lot better if BK got a PG. And guess what happened when we did? That unimaginative offense is averaging over 100 a game. I'm no genius, I just realized an obvious weakness at the PG position which was killing our consistency on offense. A weakness that for some reason, it took BK five years to figure out. The fact that Bibby's simple presence has made us a competitive team shows that BK's idea that a team does not need a conventional PG (remember he drafted forward after forward based on this principle) was completely incorrect.

What has BK done wrong in the last two years? Wow. Shelden Williams is one of the worst lotto picks I've ever seen, Speedy Claxton never has and probably never will contribute, AJ was a decent backup PG that he wanted to start, Law did not cure our problems and we could have traded no. 11 for a real PG, and Lo Wright was a disaster.

I'm sick of BK getting credit for Horford. He fell ass backward into that pick because we got lucky with the ping pong balls. I'm not crediting him for catching a break, we were lucky to have that pick in the first place.

smabie wrote:We're averaging 103.9 scored and 104.9 given up, since the All Star Game.

In 14 wins, we're averaging 109.6 for and 100.2 against.
In 13 losses, we're averaging 97.7 for and 110 against.

Mike Woodson is (supposedly) a defensive-minded coach.

Me, I'd like to believe that they're winning because they have Mike Bibby.

But, realistically, they're winning because they don't have Tyronn Lue or Anthony Johnson or Shelden Williams anymore (and blame BK all you want for Shelden, but he was hardly the only one making that decision). They're winning because Zaza and Acie and Salim have been getting more playing time during that stretch. And they're winning despite Mike Woodson, not because of him.

Maybe they are winning in spite of Woody. But they couldn't do that until our GM figured out how to get someone to help us win (Bibby). The fact that Woody is a bad coach and we are winning shows just how much more personnel matters than coaching. And isn't the GM in charge of that?

JoshB914 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Maybe they are winning in spite of Woody. But they couldn't do that until our GM figured out how to get someone to help us win (Bibby). The fact that Woody is a bad coach and we are winning shows just how much more personnel matters than coaching. And isn't the GM in charge of that?

I'm not disagreeing at all. I just don't see why the coach should get a free pass because the GM hasn't been good.

We're a whole 1 game better with Bibby playing the easiest stretch of the sason. Who cares if you score more points if you're giving up even more than that?