RealGM

Atlanta Trades: Chill (Sign and Trade), Law,
Atlanta Gets: Barbosa

Phoenix Trades: Barbosa
Phoenix Gets: Chill, Law

What Phoenix Gains: They fulfill their desire to get younger. They get a number 11 pick (that hasn’t been given playing time in Atl) to back up Nash. Chill's tendency to move without the ball to get easy baskets fits seamlessly with the Sun's offense. Chill’s arrival also allows the Suns to trade Diaw. The roster is full and balanced, and the Diaw trade can be focused on getting the best player available rather than fulfilling a need at a certain position.

What Atlanta Gets: A flexible, more explosive line-up. The roster remains balanced and each position is filled. We can rotate JJ to the 3 spot when Barbosa/West/Richardson comes in at the 2, because he is strong enough to play there and I actually believe he is at his best when he is attacking the basket. Barbosa capitalizes on the speed of our team and would hopefully eventually replace Bibby as a more up-tempo starting point guard if he proves his play making skills. Bibby is also a contingency plan if Barbosa cannot develop into a pass first point guard and needs to spend most of his time at the 2 guard spot. Until then, Barbosa serves as the offensive spark off the bench we often need.

garbage and pointless.We wouldn't trade either by their selves straight up for Barbosa

You wouldn't trade Law for Barbosa straight up? You've lost your mind. Your reply was a waste of time.

I don't see the point in drafting players like Law and trading them away before giving them any chance to develop. He didn't get that many minutes last season and struggles with some injuries. This is exactly what Boston did with both Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson. I am excited to see what Law does this year with a full year under his belt and learning from Mike Bibby, a legitimate NBA point guard, instead of career backups like anthony johnson and speedy. He might be better than Barbosa, he might not but I would like to put in the time and see what we have, especially with Bibby under contract for another year. He may well be very ready after 4 years of college and 2 years NBA experience.

I will write a nicer rejection of the trade.

Barbosa would be and always will be useless to a coach that likes to slow down the offense alot. Barbosa is a fast break guy, only he is a one man fast break. running with him means nothing because he will beat anyone running with him down the court and finish himself. He isn't a good passer in the halfcourt or on the break.

He also could be a deadly stand still shooter though which would work with Joe, but I think Chill gives us alot more in the offensive rebounding, timely baskets and plays catagory that barbosa for chill would be a bad trade.

As for Acie, I don't think he will ever be the shooter Barbosa is but he already has displayed better point guard skills. Plus he is a rookie and has a chance to become better while I think we have pretty much seen barbosa's ceiling.

I think leadro is a 20+ PPG starting 2 guard for someone but will never be a NBA point. He just doesn't have the skill set. This trade makes us thin at two positions realistically.

I have no problem with that trade.

Too much.

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NWO4Life wrote:Too much.

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I wouldn't mind asking them for a 1st rounder if we offer them a second. Tweaking a deal is common.

Rip2137 wrote:I will write a nicer rejection of the trade.

Barbosa would be and always will be useless to a coach that likes to slow down the offense alot. Barbosa is a fast break guy, only he is a one man fast break. running with him means nothing because he will beat anyone running with him down the court and finish himself. He isn't a good passer in the halfcourt or on the break.

He also could be a deadly stand still shooter though which would work with Joe, but I think Chill gives us alot more in the offensive rebounding, timely baskets and plays catagory that barbosa for chill would be a bad trade. As for Acie, I don't think he will ever be the shooter Barbosa is but he already has displayed better point guard skills. Plus he is a rookie and has a chance to become better while I think we have pretty much seen barbosa's ceiling.

I think leadro is a 20+ PPG starting 2 guard for someone but will never be a NBA point. He just doesn't have the skill set. This trade makes us thin at two positions realistically.

I always appreciate constructive criticism grounded in inciteful points rather than the fly-by insults some give to increase their point count and their ego. I agree that Law could be good. He is a question mark, and I wish that Woodson had played him more so that he would be more of a sure thing. With Bibby aging and JJ's free agency approaching in a couple of years, I'd like something more certain in the back-court. I know he's been criticized for not being more of a play-maker in the past, but I believe he's increased his play-making skills, and could further do so with a team that doesn't play him at the 2 as much. Having said that, I've got no problem with him being a 20pt+ starting 2 guard (rotating to the point position when Bibby rests), with JJ at the 3, but I don't know if that fits with Bibby's style of play. We would maybe want to consider another move at that point.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not completely possible you guys lose Chill for nothing? I think it's a fair trade. I am concerned about the shooting ability of both Law and Childress in PHX. That is still a prerequisite with Steve Nash running the point. I would rather have Marvin, mostly because I see potential in is J. I could be wrong, I only watched about 10 Hawks games last year.

True, and I think he would welcome a trade to a competetive team he would fit well with which would in turn increase his value. I don't think it's productive to look at the trade and say Chill and Law is too much and leave it at that. I think that if you think that it's too much, the next step would be considering what else we could get, in return. Perhaps a pick. I think we over value this guys a bit though, even if Chill is better than his numbers suggest.

Rod700 wrote:TI don't think it's productive to look at the trade and say Chill and Law is too much and leave it at that.

Thank goodness you're here to set us straight.

Barbosa's not only a tweener, he's a fastbreak-ONLY tweener. He's not a true point; he's too short for major minutes at the 2. He scores only 3.8 points/game more than Childress with the great Steve Nash setting him up in that fastbreak heaven called Phoenix. He's fast, no doubt, but what else commends him?

You say we might lose Childress for nothing? True, and Barbosa might hit his head and forget who he is. There's a reason 7-8 teams have already asked us about SNT's for Childress and that's because it's unlikely anybody is willing to pay him much more than we can comfortably match.

And it's not wise to trade Acie when his value is at its lowest. Giving up on him after only one season when he was injured and very poorly used by Woodson is stupid, at best. In the last draft, he was considered worth the 11th pick.

Barbosa is in no way worth the 11th.

parson wrote: Giving up on him after only one season when he was injured and very poorly used by Woodson is stupid, at best. In the last draft, he was considered worth the 11th pick.

Barbosa is in no way worth the 11th.

Never said I was giving up on him. I'm just suggesting he isn't untouchable when it comes to trade talks to improve the team. I think we value Barbosa differently too. He's not just a fast break guy, he can nail down the three and spread the floor too. I think it's a little unfair to say that he is only a fast break and not a true point because that is how he was utilized in Phoenix's system. He successfully fullfilled the role that fit that team and I don't think it's fair to devalue him for that.

Rod700 wrote:Never said I was giving up on him. I'm just suggesting he isn't untouchable when it comes to trade talks to improve the team.

Really?

Rod700 wrote:You wouldn't trade Law for Barbosa straight up? You've lost your mind. Your reply was a waste of time.

parson wrote:

Rod700 wrote:Never said I was giving up on him. I'm just suggesting he isn't untouchable when it comes to trade talks to improve the team.

Really?

Rod700 wrote:You wouldn't trade Law for Barbosa straight up? You've lost your mind. Your reply was a waste of time.

Really. Saying I would trade him for a better player doesn't mean I have given up on him as a productive player. It just means I hold Barbosa in that much higher regard. Your really strecthin on those quotes buddy.

Rod700 wrote:

parson wrote:

Rod700 wrote:Never said I was giving up on him. I'm just suggesting he isn't untouchable when it comes to trade talks to improve the team.

Really?

Rod700 wrote:You wouldn't trade Law for Barbosa straight up? You've lost your mind. Your reply was a waste of time.

Really. Saying I would trade him for a better player doesn't mean I have given up on him as a productive player. It just means I hold Barbosa in that much higher regard. Your really strecthin on those quotes buddy.

It's not a fact that he's a better player when Acie has only played one year.....and that one under Mike Woodson......that adds alot to the equation lol.All young players need time and Barbosa isn't for sure better than Law.That takes time.U don't trade guys like Law after one season especially for a guy like Barbosa.

It's not a fact that he's a better player when Acie has only played one year.....and that one under Mike Woodson......that adds alot to the equation lol.All young players need time and Barbosa isn't for sure better than Law.That takes time.U don't trade guys like Law after one season especially for a guy like Barbosa.

That adds an important incite to the discussion. I think we have a similar concern, but we're focusing how it would affect different players. It's been pointed out that Barbosa might not be the offensive spark we need in an offense where the coach likes to slow things down. I worry though that a guy like Law, who has some potential, won't ever reach it here in Atlanta where the coach doesn't believe in him and won't give him the minutes he needs to develop. I worry his trade value will only fall as he is not given the chance to reach his potential. It seems a big part of the problem from both points of view may be the coach.

Rod700 wrote:

It's not a fact that he's a better player when Acie has only played one year.....and that one under Mike Woodson......that adds alot to the equation lol.All young players need time and Barbosa isn't for sure better than Law.That takes time.U don't trade guys like Law after one season especially for a guy like Barbosa.

That adds an important incite to the discussion. I think we have a similar concern, but we're focusing how it would affect different players. It's been pointed out that Barbosa might not be the offensive spark we need in an offense where the coach likes to slow things down. I worry though that a guy like Law, who has some potential, won't ever reach it here in Atlanta where the coach doesn't believe in him and won't give him the minutes he needs to develop. I worry his trade value will only fall as he is not given the chance to reach his potential. It seems a big part of the problem from both points of view may be the coach.

yeah but the truth is this is the first time Woodson had a TALENTED young PG,so even though I expect Woody to still be an idiot,i'm still not sure if he will handle him as horribly as he did last year,seeing as how he isn't a rookie anymore.Law is putting in the work to get better and if it pays off it'll give Woody no choice,like when after forever he finally got the hint that Horford should be starting over Zaza.Woody did decide to start him by the 3rd game last year and he was improving alot....till he got hurt,then after he was handled horribly.I believe in him,so i'm not open to trading him unless it's for a great player that's not almost 30 or over 30.

What are you talking about Woody "finally getting the hint" on Horford? He started from day one last year!

JoshB914 wrote:What are you talking about Woody "finally getting the hint" on Horford? He started from day one last year!

not the case.Horford started because Zaza got hurt in pre-season and when he came back Horford came off the bench.It took a few games till Woody started Horford over Zaza.

EDIT:Zaza was out till the 6th game against Washington,he came off the bench to see if he was healthy,but that next game against Charlotte(where Acie and Smoove got hurt so Horford started the game after at PF for Smoove)he started.and up until the Miami game he started over Horford.That's 5 games and the only reason Horford started again is because ZAZA GOT HURT AGAIN.Check it if u want,Zaza was out again witha sprained left ankle against Minnesota.It wasn't until after that Woody gave Horford the starting job.It took him 13 games to realize Horford was better than Zaza.U can say 14 because Woody could have only made Zaza come off the bench his first game back to see if he was healthy against Chicago like he did with his first injury.