Under Over: Marvin Williams

Harry10 · Post #1 » by **Harry10** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 1:20 am

Under Over: 17 points per game for Marvin Williams in the 2008-09 season?

Post #2 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:00 am

I'm going to say over. But just barely. He has increased his scoring avg every season. And with Bibby having a half season plus training camp to become familiar with Marvins game, it seems an easy progression to 17-18 ppg. But I see him topping out from there. He'll probably be the 2nd leading scorer while still being the third or fourth option on offense.

He hasn't been a BAD ballplayer. He's just not a particularly GREAT one. The real question is whether he can produce at a higher level should the Hawks reach the postseason again.

Skyhawk1 · Post #3 » by **Skyhawk1** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:44 am

I think Marvin can and probably will be around 18-20 ppg this season. He's playing in a contract year and has expanded his arsenal ( that's what I've read). Anyway, I don't think that would mean benefits for this team. I'm much more concerned with his attrocious defense, poor foot work, lack of passing skills, and consistency. I mean, the guy is 6'9, 230lbs and gets abused by any PF in this league. He's very soft sometimes. That's what he really has got to work on.

killbuckner · Post #4 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:50 pm

He is the 4th option on offense and could be 5th if Horford develops an offensive game that can exploit slow centers. This is an easy under.

raleigh · Post #5 » by **raleigh** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:53 pm

He's not seen an increase in plays called for him in any season, yet he continues to increase his scoring.

It's an easy over.

conleyorbust · Post #6 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:44 pm

If he does it, it'll probably be through an increase in jump-shot efficiency and minutes. I'll take the under but I think he'll be in the +16.

JoshB914 · Post #7 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:38 pm

Definetely the under. Not only is Horford on his way to becoming a more viable option offensively, Marvin doesn't have the focus or swagger to become even a solid scorer every night.

Post #8 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:12 pm

Under. I don't see him averaging over 2.2 more points per game during the upcoming season.

lunarblues · Post #9 » by **lunarblues** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 9:05 pm

i'll say over. he's going to be in the game during times that we need scorers. this will be more about him stepping up with the second teamers than about him adding new moves to the arsenal.

LL Cool Scott · Post #10 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 11:25 pm

Under. He's not going to get enough touches with the emergence of Horford and Smith. He's talented enough to get 20+ (especially if he has improved as much this offseason as people claim), but he's the 4th option at best on this team.

Is there one 4th option in the entire league that scores over 17 ppg ???

Harry10 · Post #11 » by **Harry10** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 8:32 am

i don't know what you are talking about 4th option. Marvin has an amazing jumpshot if he gets his shoulders squared.

if Marvin really did get a 3pt shot, and Smith and Horford have a post, back to the basket game, and Joe can still create and draw the double team.... then Marvin should get some open threes.

still the term 4th option doesn't make any sence, if Marvin is open, then he is open.

evildallas · Post #12 » by **evildallas** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 9:26 am

Will he be left in the game when he's hot now or will he be pulled at the 6 minute mark to get Maurice Evans warmed up? Will he be able to make a 3pt FG per game? Has he added enough strength to finish better at the hoop? Will Bibby be a facilitator or a shot-first PG in a contract year?

Lot of questions to be answered, but I'm taking the over based on the reports of his weight/strength gain and the hope that the roster changes will force Woodson to handle Marvin differently than in the past. Bibby is a dangerous wild card, but I'm hopeful that he determines that his best chance to get paid is to have high assist totals rather than high points.

LL Cool Scott · Post #13 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 12:15 pm

Option 1: Joe Johnson
Option 2: Josh Smith
Option 3: Al Horford
Option 4: Marvin Williams

Is this some big secret? Isn't this generally accepted about our offense?

Harry10 · Post #14 » by **Harry10** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 12:33 pm

LL Cool Scott wrote:Option 1: Joe Johnson
Option 2: Josh Smith
Option 3: Al Horford
Option 4: Marvin Williams

Is this some big secret? Isn't this generally accepted about our offense?

you have never played organized basketball have you....

#1 is Joe and #2 is who ever dominates the ball Joe is out.... i don't know where people come up with this #3 and #4?

when Joe makes his move and the double comes, he doesn't go down the list at 2, 3, and 4, you just find where the double came from and make the pass to the open guy

conleyorbust · Post #15 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 2:12 pm

LL Cool Scott wrote:Option 1: Joe Johnson
Option 2: Josh Smith
Option 3: Al Horford
Option 4: Marvin Williams

Is this some big secret? Isn't this generally accepted about our offense?

Al is probably still 4, Marv did score almost 5 more ppg than Al last season and they probably are equal in terms of room for development.

killbuckner · Post #16 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 3:20 pm

Joe will take more shots than Marvin. Smith will take more shots than Marvin. Bibby will take more shots than Marvin. He is the 4th option on offense. And with people wanting Horford to score more its clear that many people would be just fine with the Hawks making Marvin the 5th option on offense. If they trade Bibby then Maybe Marvin will become the third option.

Marvin averaged 9.5, 13.2, and 13.5 in the months following the Bibby trade. He averaged 11.4 in the playoffs. Seriously I just don't have any clue where you think he is going to get enough shots to average that many points per game unless the Hawks trade Bibby.

LL Cool Scott · Post #17 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 7:38 pm

Harry10 wrote:
LL Cool Scott wrote:Option 1: Joe Johnson
Option 2: Josh Smith
Option 3: Al Horford
Option 4: Marvin Williams

Is this some big secret? Isn't this generally accepted about our offense?

you have never played organized basketball have you....

#1 is Joe and #2 is who ever dominates the ball Joe is out.... i don't know where people come up with this #3 and #4?

when Joe makes his move and the double comes, he doesn't go down the list at 2, 3, and 4, you just find where the double came from and make the pass to the open guy

REALLY??? Wow, thanks! I never picked up the intricacies of this "double team" concept while playing high school ball. Unfortunately, I wasn't tall enough (or athletic enough, or quick enough, or... several other things enough) to play college ball. I suppose that's why I never was able to understand this "double team" concept. What exactly is a "double team"? Does that mean two teams playing at the same time? One guy playing for two teams at the same time? Please explain this to me Harry, and please explain other basketball strategies that you learned in your illustrious playing career. Thank you in advance!

On a serious note - have you never heard of a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option on offense? Seriously?

LL Cool Scott · Post #18 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 7:45 pm

killbuckner wrote:Joe will take more shots than Marvin. Smith will take more shots than Marvin. Bibby will take more shots than Marvin. He is the 4th option on offense. And with people wanting Horford to score more its clear that many people would be just fine with the Hawks making Marvin the 5th option on offense. If they trade Bibby then Maybe Marvin will become the third option.

Marvin averaged 9.5, 13.2, and 13.5 in the months following the Bibby trade. He averaged 11.4 in the playoffs. Seriously I just don't have any clue where you think he is going to get enough shots to average that many points per game unless the Hawks trade Bibby.

I don't think we're trading Bibby. In our halfcourt set, I still see Joe as option 1, then Horford and/or Smith in the post as options 2 and 3. After that, it's kind of whatever the defense gives us. Bibby and Marvin are basically spot-up, kick-out shooters. I think with a training camp under his belt and a clean bill of health (big if...) that Bibby will only get more shots and Marvin will only get less than last year. There's only so many shots to go around...which is a pleasant problem to have.

JoshB914 · Post #19 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 10:06 pm

Marvin is the 5th option in this offense. JJ, Bibby, and Smoove are obviously the top three. And Horford will easily pass Marvin if he polishes up his offensive game a bit.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing JJ/Evans at the 2 and 3 instead of JJ/Marvin. Over a three year period, Marvin guy has shown absolutely nothing to prove that he can be a consistent scoring threat every night. Not to mention his constant falling asleep on defense, struggling on the boards, and dissapearing for long stretches of time on offense.

lethalweapon3 · Post #20 » by **lethalweapon3** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 11:05 pm

It'll be under 17, but it'll be above his 14.8 if the rumors of his improved stroke and decision making hold up over the season.

Would've liked to have seen Marvin get at least one 5th-place vote for Most Improved Playa last year, as he did show statistical improvement in a number of categories. Numbers I'd really like to see Marvin continue to improve (from last season):

3PT% obviously (10%)
FT% (82.2%)
Offensive Boards (1.5)
Assists-to-Turnovers (1.7/1.6)
Swats (0.4)
Swipes (1.0)

~lw3