Has Woody Changed?

JoshB914 · Post #1 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:00 pm

I've been reading a bit about how Woody has changed his coaching style this season, and I couldn't disagree more. He's still the same mediocre coach that he was before. Its the players that are making the difference.

Of course we will hear all this talk about how Woody has "changed" because people don't want to admit that they were wrong. But in my opinion coaching in the NBA is incredibly overrated and we saw that when Doc Rivers' team won an NBA Title.

Woody is as stubborn as they come, it's his way or the highway, do we honestly think that he fundamentally changed his coaching style over the offseason?

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #2 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:10 pm

i was thinking that he didnt change at all, its just we can finally run his offense correctly.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #3 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:33 pm

I don't think the biggest difference has been Woody. I think the biggest difference(rather easily)is that the team is playing great defense(which he's always preached)...but through 4 games you'd have to be insane to say that Woodson is coaching like he did last year. Last year he over-coached because he was literally coaching for his job. He's playing 9 players consistently when he only played 7 post Bibby. He played Joe 40 minutes in games where we were up(New york) or down(Indy) by 25 or more. He isn't sitting out players for the entire half who pick up 2 fouls. He sat Bibby on the bench the entire 4th quarter vs New Orleans. Last year I guarantee that would have never happened and we would have ended up losing the game. Infact I can recall during AJ's last game when he brought him back in the game(in which I think Law set a career high)and we ended up blowing a double digit 4th quarter lead vs Charlotte. I also don't think Randolph or Solo would have been allowed to play that many minutes simultaneously last year under ANY situation. It was just two years ago where he started Lo Wright(during the only stretch when the entire team was healthy) despite giving us like 3/3 in 20 minutes when Shelden and Solo were rotting on the bench.

It's not the wins and losses. It's that he's finally using logic(not pulling hot bench players and not understanding what foul trouble is) and giving people a chance to prove whether they can play or not.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #4 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:05 pm

I actually thought this was interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=798592&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

JoshB914 · Post #5 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:12 pm

Hoops- So you're saying that if we had Flip Murray last year, and he was on fire in the fourth quarter, Woody would have taken him out for Bibby?

HoopsGuru25 · Post #6 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:18 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Hoops- So you're saying that if we had Flip Murray last year, and he was on fire in the fourth quarter, Woody would have taken him out for Bibby?

Yes. Look above-he did the same exact thing in a game vs Charlotte last year when it came to AJ.

tontoz · Post #7 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:27 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Hoops- So you're saying that if we had Flip Murray last year, and he was on fire in the fourth quarter, Woody would have taken him out for Bibby?

No, we are saying he wouldn't have been in during the 4th quarter.

Last year there is no way that a young guy playing in his first game (Morris) plays more than Zaza, especially after Smith's injury. Smith got hurt early yet Zaza played only 12 minutes, Solo 25, Morris 13. If you can't see the difference then you aren't paying attention.

JoshB914 · Post #8 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:28 pm

Fair enough, Hoops. But I think he took Acie out there because he had not proven himself to be a consistent player, and he didn't trust him. It's just how he is with young players.

As for Flip, he is a guy that has been around, and he clearly trusts him more and stuck with him because of his experience. It's the exact same thing he did last year when he would play Lue (a veteran player) over AJ down the stretch when he was hot. I don't see how that's any different than what happened last night with how he coached regarding Flip?

tontoz · Post #9 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:32 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Fair enough, Hoops. But I think he took Acie out there because he had not proven himself to be a consistent player, and he didn't trust him. It's just how he is with young players.

I guess that rule doesn't apply to Solo and Morris.

JoshB914 · Post #10 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:33 pm

tontoz wrote:
JoshB914 wrote:Hoops- So you're saying that if we had Flip Murray last year, and he was on fire in the fourth quarter, Woody would have taken him out for Bibby?

No, we are saying he wouldn't have been in during the 4th quarter.

Last year there is no way that a young guy playing in his first game (Morris) plays more than Zaza, especially after Smith's injury. Smith got hurt early yet Zaza played only 12 minutes, Solo 25, Morris 13. If you can't see the difference then you aren't paying attention.

Morris played more mintues than Zaza because Zaza had four fouls in 12 minutes. He only came in for Al in the second half after Al also notched his fourth foul. He would have done the exact same thing last year if Smith was out because he wouldnt have had a choice.

JoshB914 · Post #11 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:35 pm

tontoz wrote:
JoshB914 wrote:Fair enough, Hoops. But I think he took Acie out there because he had not proven himself to be a consistent player, and he didn't trust him. It's just how he is with young players.

I guess that rule doesn't apply to Solo and Morris.

Solomon Jones and Randolph Morris are both in their third year in the league. Don't compare them to a rookie. And as I said before, they both played because Woody had no choice.

tontoz · Post #12 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:38 pm

JoshB914 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
JoshB914 wrote:Fair enough, Hoops. But I think he took Acie out there because he had not proven himself to be a consistent player, and he didn't trust him. It's just how he is with young players.

I guess that rule doesn't apply to Solo and Morris.

Solomon Jones and Randolph Morris are both in their third year in the league. Don't compare them to a rookie. And as I said before, they both played because Woody had no choice.

hahahahaha

So Solo and Morris don't qualify as young and inexperience players. They are proven players. OK

So why did Zaza only get 12 minutes?

*crickets*

JoshB914 · Post #13 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:43 pm

Oh I don't know, maybe because we were up 15+ points in the fourth quarter? Why would he play Zaza then? He came out in the third quarter because he had four fouls (something he would have always done), and he didn't play him in the fourth because it was a blowout.

tontoz · Post #14 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:44 pm

Morris has played only 238 minutes in his career, Solo 843.

JoshB914 · Post #15 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:45 pm

^^^ And they both played because Woody had no choice as I have explained fairly clearly.

tontoz · Post #16 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:47 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Oh I don't know, maybe because we were up 15+ points in the fourth quarter? Why would he play Zaza then? He came out in the third quarter because he had four fouls (something he would have always done), and he didn't play him in the fourth because it was a blowout.

If it was a blowout then why did Woody leave JJ and Bibby out there until the 4 minute mark? Shoudln't he have pulled them earlier if it was such a blowout?

HoopsGuru25 · Post #17 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:53 pm

Due to Smith being out Woodson was forced to play one of them but I don't think there's any question that last year he would have just put Marvin in at PF or just played Zaza(or Horford) with foul trouble. He left them both out there against Bosh/JO for a decent amount of time when the game was far from over. Remember-Horford came back in the 4th and not Zaza.

tontoz · Post #18 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:55 pm

JoshB914 wrote:^^^ And they both played because Woody had no choice as I have explained fairly clearly.

But i thought it was a blowout?

Woody did have a choice. He could have easily put Zaza back in. If he fouls out so what?

It was a 15 pt game with 10 minutes left. That is hardly a blowout. Zaza was benched because he sucked (2/1 with 4 fouls) and Woody wouldn't bench a vet for a young guy last year regardless of how they were playing.

Skyhawk1 · Post #19 » by **Skyhawk1** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:59 pm

I think Woody has learned some and is just getting better. He's not great, but better than many coaches. I mean, I was watching the Nuggets last night and seriouslly, G. Karl should never be mentioned as a coach is that's what he can bring to a team.

evildallas · Post #20 » by **evildallas** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 10:42 pm

IMO, some reasons for the success:

#1) better defensive play
#2) the effect of the taste of the playoffs
#3) benefit of a shooting coach?
#4) different roster composition
#5) situational coaching has been better

The players are always the most important reason. It's a players' league. But Woodson has been better than before in my opinion. Maybe it is impact of Todd as main assistant, or maybe the taste of the playoffs has spurred him to another level. Just because a few of us have acknowledged seeing improvement in Woodson's coaching doesn't mean we're singling him out for all the credit. However continuing to bash Woodson while the team is 4-0 with the 2nd best point differential in the league seems a bit unfair to me. What more could I want from any coach at this time? I'm just enjoying the run.