Link to a Trade Proposal

ecuhus1981 · Post #1 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:03 pm

Hey all, Nets/Mavericks fan here. I wanted to see what people thought of this deal:

Kaman/Baron for Smith/Bibby

Please do your best to stay objective, and if you don't mind, respond in the linked thread, as opposed to this one. Thanks.

Harry10 · Post #2 » by **Harry10** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:06 pm

no, no, that is not good enough to get Mr. Smith.

conleyorbust · Post #3 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:24 pm

This is definitely a "win now" trade, huh?

Baron - Joe - Marv - Al - Kaman is a solid lineup, although I'm hesitant to say its any better than the one we have now. I think the biggest problem is that Davis is 29 and on a new, large contract whereas Bibby is 29 and a large expiring. Baron is a cool guy, no doubt, but I'm not sure I want him locked up with guaranteed $ into his 30s as his athleticism declines.

The Smith for Kaman thing, I'd take Smith over Kaman every day of the week.

killbuckner · Post #4 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:40 pm

Baron has negative trade value at this point I have to think. He has underperformed his contract to this point and he is injury prone. Though I can't really say that Bibby is worth more than him- just depends on what you want. But Smith is just worth more than Kaman right now. Particularly when Smith got signed to a deal lower than anyone expected this past offseason.

conleyorbust · Post #5 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:05 pm

killbuckner wrote:Baron has negative trade value at this point I have to think. He has underperformed his contract to this point and he is injury prone. Though I can't really say that Bibby is worth more than him- just depends on what you want. But Smith is just worth more than Kaman right now. Particularly when Smith got signed to a deal lower than anyone expected this past offseason.

Interesting question, so would the Clippers trade Davis for Bibby straight up? Has he lost so much value that he is worth an expiring?

I'd have to say no. At least not at this point, its too early (to early to make the trade legally, right?) to give up on him yet. More from a marketing perspective though, they signed Baron which made losing Brand acceptable, then just give him up for cap room? May as well have not signed him.

killbuckner · Post #6 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:35 pm

COB- And I wouldn't have ever signed him to that contract. The only question to me is whether the Clips realize it was a lousy contract yet. To me its a classic one of fans liking it at the time but it being an albatross as it goes. When Brand was coming back it was somewhat justifiable- in their current situation they SHOULD want it off their books.

raleigh · Post #7 » by **raleigh** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:19 am

What about:

Zaza/Law/Claxton/1st -for- Kaman/Hart?

Claxton's insurance saves the Clips quite a good deal of money the next few years...

The Hawks could bring Horford off the bench. Not sure that's a good thing, but let's stick with this idea long enough to post the possible lineup:

Bibby/Murray/Hart
JJ/Evans/West
Marvin
Smith/Horford/Hunter
Kaman/Jones

Inactive: Morris, Gardner

JoshB914 · Post #8 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:11 am

Wow. People are really overrating Baron Davis in that thread.

Skyhawk1 · Post #9 » by **Skyhawk1** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:47 pm

Kaman is a special player guys. How many 7 ft guys out there can score with their back to the basket and rebound ? Not that many. I've always loved his game. I think every team that's got that kind of center should play through them. I do not get why the Clippers don't use him more in the post. If I'm the Hawks GM, I do that trade in a heart beat. You get to fill two of the most difficult positions in the NBA, with both of them being starters and you'd hesitate on it? Anyway, I know Smith's popularity on this board is so overwhelming, that most fans would turn this trade down as soon as they saw his name thrown in it. I'm not surprised.

conleyorbust · Post #10 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:51 pm

Skyhawk1 wrote:Kaman is a special player guys. How many 7 ft guys out there can score with their back to the basket and rebound ? Not that many. I've always loved his game. I think every team that's got that kind of center should play through them. I do not get why the Clippers don't use him more in the post. If I'm the Hawks GM, I do that trade in a heart beat. You get to fill two of the most difficult positions in the NBA, with both of them being starters and you'd hesitate on it? Anyway, I know Smith's popularity on this board is so overwhelming, that most fans would turn this trade down as soon as they saw his name thrown in it. I'm not surprised.

Haha, you're funny that your own Smith hatred makes other fans appreciation of him "overwhelming popularity".

I'm not sure how Kaman is special though. They tried to run more stuff through him last season and he gave them 15 points, 2 assists, and 3 TOs. All career highs after 3 seasons of fairly steady production. Now he has gone back to being a 13-10 player. He's solid, don't get me wrong, but he's not "special" in that he's going to be the second best player on a playoff team. He's not particulalry dynamic.

I wouldn't do this deal but if I were, I'd need a very nice sweetener, probably something that LAC wouldn't be willing to give up - their pick, maybe top 3 protection or so.

johnny878 · Post #11 » by **johnny878** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:02 am

Hell to the no.

Smith is a budding star. Davis is injury prone as hell and Kaman is over rated from last year where he was the only guy on the team that could do anything.

mikeselectro · Post #12 » by **mikeselectro** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:15 pm

*Feb 13 / Trade ID #4824556

Chicago: Deng, Gooden, Gray, Ruffin, L. Hunter
for
Atlanta: Josh Smith, S. Claxton, R. Morris, T. Gardner, M. West, O. Hunter

Atlanta Starters/backup:
Bibby/Murray/A. Law
Johnson/M. Evans
Deng/Williams
Horford/Gooden
Pachulia/Gray

killbuckner · Post #13 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:28 pm

you can't honestly think that the upgrade from Marvin to Deng is worth starting Zaza Pachulia right?

mikeselectro · Post #14 » by **mikeselectro** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:41 pm

I don't look at it in those terms.
If you would like, you're starters/backup at the 3/4/5 could be:

3. Deng/Williams
4. Gooden/S. Jones
5. Horford/Pachulia/Gray

but Horford isn't a center. It's up to you though.

killbuckner · Post #15 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:12 pm

You can't honestly think that the upgrade from Marvin to Deng is worth downgrading from Smith to Gooden right?

mikeselectro · Post #16 » by **mikeselectro** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:30 pm

I refuted that argument once, if you want me to copy and paste it I can.

conleyorbust · Post #17 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:47 pm

mikeselectro wrote:I refuted that argument once, if you want me to copy and paste it I can.

Sure, copy and paste. Just because you responded doesn't mean you refuted though. Josh Smith is very valuable to this team and that package does not adequately replace his value.

killbuckner · Post #18 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:03 pm

You didn't refute it- you just rearranged things so I rearranged the argument pointing out how ridiculous this trade is from the Hawks perspective. Deng is an upgrade over marvin but not by a ton. Gooden is a MASSIVE downgrade from Smith. The Hawks are already OK at SF. After they do this trade they would have to start either Gooden or Zaza which makes them worse.

mikeselectro · Post #19 » by **mikeselectro** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:23 pm

So when Smith is healthy, the hawks start Smith/Horford at 4/5 ?
If so, you guys need a real center; how would you plan on getting one?

Post #20 » by **HMFFL** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:38 pm

mikeselectro wrote:I don't look at it in those terms.
If you would like, you're starters/backup at the 3/4/5 could be:

3. Deng/Williams
4. Gooden/S. Jones
5. Horford/Pachulia/Gray

but Horford isn't a center. It's up to you though.

mikeselectro wrote:So when Smith is healthy, the hawks start Smith/Horford at 4/5 ?
If so, you guys need a real center; how would you plan on getting one?

This team doesn't need to make any drastic moves just yet. Chicago doesn't have a big that improves the Hawks greatly, so the team is better off sticking with Horford at the five, and focusing on any upgrades to the five at another time.