Trying something new?

conleyorbust · Post #1 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:46 pm

I had mentioned last season at around this time that we should try using Josh as our primary option in the half-court instead of Joe. I believe it was kb that said it was a ludicris idea but with Joe shooting 35% over the past month and Smith going for about 19 on 54.4% shooting, I figure it would be nice to give Joe a break. I'd say put him on the injured list for a few games and run and PnR offense through Bibby and Josh.

I know we're already short handed but every game where Joe misses two thirds of his shots is a game where he doesn't actively help the team. If this team is going to go anywhere, we need Joe to be healthy and I think that having a few games without him might give Woody the confidence to trust other guys to play some of Joe's minutes and help him take that "the man" role a little bit.

Is this realistic? Can anyone else think of a way to reduce the fatigue/calf-problem thats hurting Joe and thus dragging down the team?

raleigh · Post #2 » by **raleigh** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:38 pm

I'd be happy just to see more pick-n-rolls.

killbuckner · Post #3 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:40 pm

If you are going to Pick and Roll I'd go with Bibby and Marvin. You want the guy setting the pick to be able to knock down a jumper.

brownballer · Post #4 » by **brownballer** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:42 pm

since were not exactly a big team we should set pick and rolls with guys who can hit the jumper

JoshB914 · Post #5 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:53 pm

Whenever Joe goes through a bad stretch it's because "he's hurt". I just think his offensive game is so perimeter oriented that he's going to go through these slumps every year. If he isn't hitting his jumper he is a different player. Joe has lost his way around the New Year up until the All Star Break since he arrived here and I don't expect that to change. I'm sure he'll be back full speed after the break just like always so I'm not going to worry about it.

As for Josh in the PNR, he has actually improved his mid-range jump shot quite a bit. When he is not shooting from the wings he is actually making it at a fairly effective clip. He can't shoot three's, but his jumper has still come a very long way.

killbuckner · Post #6 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Josh on jumpshots between 10 feet and the 3 point line is 30/77 for a .389 shooting percentage.

raleigh · Post #7 » by **raleigh** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:34 pm

Yeah, Horford is a MUCH better option with the pick-n-roll.

conleyorbust · Post #8 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:49 pm

mrhonline wrote:Yeah, Horford is a MUCH better option with the pick-n-roll.

Its been working pretty well with Bibby and Josh the few times we have run it. Horford's advantage as a shooter is sort of negated by Smith's advantage in getting to the hoop and finishing in traffic.

raleigh · Post #9 » by **raleigh** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:03 pm

conleyorbust wrote:
mrhonline wrote:Yeah, Horford is a MUCH better option with the pick-n-roll.

Its been working pretty well with Bibby and Josh the few times we have run it.

I think Smith would be better paired with JJ, who can see over the defender most times.

You're right, though. Smith is better at the pick/roll, while Horford would be better at the pick/fade.

NDaATL · Post #10 » by **NDaATL** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:22 pm

We just need to run it more, but I wouldn't expect much considering who our coach is. He ignores things that work. Bibby can run it with Smith or Horford and it would work great.

The only 2 times we ran it last night we got dunks. And, we desperately needed offense. Don't expect Woodson to catch on considering we've had Bibby since last February and Bibby's been a dominant P&R player his entire career and we still don't run it nearly enough.

JoshB914 · Post #11 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:09 pm

killbuckner wrote:Josh on jumpshots between 10 feet and the 3 point line is 30/77 for a .389 shooting percentage.

Yes but as I said, that is because he is misses everything he shoots from the wings. He has actually been a solid mid-range jump shooter from elsewhere. Which is major progress to me considering he missed mid-range jump shots from anywhere and everywhere over the first four years of his career.

LL Cool Scott · Post #12 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:09 pm

NDaATL wrote:We just need to run it more, but I wouldn't expect much considering who our coach is. He ignores things that work. Bibby can run it with Smith or Horford and it would work great.

The only 2 times we ran it last night we got dunks. And, we desperately needed offense. Don't expect Woodson to catch on considering we've had Bibby since last February and Bibby's been a dominant P&R player his entire career and we still don't run it nearly enough.

How exactly would that work great if neither of them can hit a jump shot? You need a point who can hit a jumper (which we do) and a big guy who can roll OR pop (which we don't). Without that double threat, it's really easy to defend.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #13 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:25 pm

Saying Horford "can't hit a jumpshot" is an overstatement. He shoots 42 % on jumpshots which is well above average for a big man.

conleyorbust · Post #14 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:12 am

LL Cool Scott wrote:
NDaATL wrote:We just need to run it more, but I wouldn't expect much considering who our coach is. He ignores things that work. Bibby can run it with Smith or Horford and it would work great.

The only 2 times we ran it last night we got dunks. And, we desperately needed offense. Don't expect Woodson to catch on considering we've had Bibby since last February and Bibby's been a dominant P&R player his entire career and we still don't run it nearly enough.

How exactly would that work great if neither of them can hit a jump shot? You need a point who can hit a jumper (which we do) and a big guy who can roll OR pop (which we don't). Without that double threat, it's really easy to defend.

Dwight Howard and Jameer/Hedo use the PnR. Chris Paul and Tyson Chandler do too. Neither one of those guys can shoot for crap.

Its a lot more important for the ball-handler to be a good shooter than it is for the screener if they are going to be rolling to the basket. It certainly helps to be versatile but saying that its really easy to defend is like saying that it would be really easy to defend Josh from 17 feet because you don't have to respect his jumper - it doesn't work in practice. Horford should be a solid pick and pop player as he is one of the most accurate midrange jump-shooting centers in the game right now.

NDaATL · Post #15 » by **NDaATL** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:53 am

LL Cool Scott wrote:
NDaATL wrote:We just need to run it more, but I wouldn't expect much considering who our coach is. He ignores things that work. Bibby can run it with Smith or Horford and it would work great.

The only 2 times we ran it last night we got dunks. And, we desperately needed offense. Don't expect Woodson to catch on considering we've had Bibby since last February and Bibby's been a dominant P&R player his entire career and we still don't run it nearly enough.

How exactly would that work great if neither of them can hit a jump shot? You need a point who can hit a jumper (which we do) and a big guy who can roll OR pop (which we don't). Without that double threat, it's really easy to defend.

Horford can't shoot midrange? That's news to me.

And, what happened the other night against the Bucks when we kept running it with Bibby and Smith? We dominated, and Bibby had 15 assists. Keep in mind that the Bucks are actually 11th in defensive efficiency.

tontoz · Post #16 » by **tontoz** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:27 am

We definitely need to run more pick and rolls. It has worked well when they have actually tried it. The game where Bibby had 15 assists he got a lot of them with Smith on pick and rolls.

Horford is a decent shooter. I just wish he was better finishing inside.

I don't know what JJ's problem is right now so i won't even speculate. But I think he could certainly use some time off.

conleyorbust · Post #17 » by **conleyorbust** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:41 pm

tontoz wrote:We definitely need to run more pick and rolls. It has worked well when they have actually tried it. The game where Bibby had 15 assists he got a lot of them with Smith on pick and rolls.

Horford is a decent shooter. I just wish he was better finishing inside.

I don't know what JJ's problem is right now so i won't even speculate. But I think he could certainly use some time off.

Right, give him some time to sit and rest his legs/back/mind or let him play off the ball and see if he can get to the line off of single coverage or knock down some gimmes.

Look, the problem isn't that Joe Johnson isn't a good enough player, the problem is that he isn't the kind of physical specimen that Bron, Kobe, and Wade are that he can be the focus of the opposing D for 40 minutes a night. He needs to get some rest and with Smith scoring 19ppg at 54.4% in January compared to Joe's 16.9 on 35.6% (he's taken a lot more shots), I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that we don't have a better option right now.

We can afford to lose some games now if it means Joe will be ready to rock post-ASG and in the playoffs.