Could the volatile Woodson-Smith relationship..............

[jcldallas24]

TITLE CHANGED: HMFFL

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... ml?eref=T1

Could the volatile Woodson-Smith relationship be in its final stages?

Hawks coach Mike Woodson and forward Josh Smith have been at it since 2004
Smith's "selfish" play resulted in a heated exchange between the two last week
If the Hawks don't advance beyond the playoff's first round, one may have to go



Josh Smith is averaging more than 15 points and seven rebounds this season for Atlanta.




"They both arrived here in 2004. It hasn't been a marriage. It's been a pie fight."

-- Atlanta Journal-Constitution, on the relationship between Josh Smith and Mike Woodson

About 15 years ago, back when I was still a wide-eyed ball boy with the Boston Celtics, I learned the basketball definition of the word combustible. My education came during a relatively meaningless regular-season game in the mid 1990s between Boston and Seattle. Gary Payton, the Sonics' mercurial point guard, had just freelanced a play on the offensive end that resulted in a Seattle turnover. As Payton brought the ball up the court on the next possession, then Sonics coach George Karl took the opportunity to bark at him from the sidelines.

"Just run the play!" shouted Karl.

Payton shot back, "Why don't you come out here and run it yourself?"

Sitting behind the Seattle bench, I remember thinking to myself, How can these two coexist?

But they did. Swimmingly. In Payton's 12½ years with the Sonics -- seven of which were played under Karl -- Seattle won four division titles and went to the 1996 NBA Finals. Though Payton and Karl were never considered best of friends (Karl famously tried to convince management to trade Payton for Mookie Blaylock in '95) there was an underlying respect that enabled their relationship to be successful. Karl has credited Payton for making him into an elite coach and Payton has conceded that he probably wouldn't have developed into one of the NBA's top point guards without Karl as his coach.

Why am I recounting this story? Because I don't think that respect exists between Josh Smith and Mike Woodson.

When you are writing a story about Smith, which I did last year for Sports Illustrated, you have to delve into his relationship with Woodson. The two are at constant odds over Smith's role in the offense; Woodson believes Smith is most effective playing around the rim, using his superior athleticism to create second chance opportunities and get easy baskets. A Shawn Marion-type, if you will. Smith fancies himself as more of a traditional scorer, one with three-point range. Take a peek at Woodson's face next time Smith launches an errant three and you will get a good idea what he thinks of that.

The seemingly endless tug-of-war usually simmers quietly, only to be interrupted now and again when Smith explodes, as he did in April '07, when he directed a profanity-laced tirade at Woodson during a loss in Philadelphia. The Hawks suspended Smith for two games.

The latest butting of heads happened last Friday in Charlotte. After watching Smith fire up a few too many perimeter bombs in the first half, Woodson reportedly teed off on him, calling his shot selection selfish. When Smith said something back, the two got into a heated exchange that was serious enough to warrant Woodson benching Smith for the entire second half.

"I don't know," Hawks guard Joe Johnson said after the game. "I think we all need to get on the same page. But it's kind of tough to play when the chemistry is not there, and we're not playing as one."

When a head coach and a player as significant as Smith -- who is averaging 15.1 points, 7.1 rebounds and 1.6 blocks this season -- can't see eye-to-eye, and the team suffers. As a result, conventional wisdom says one of them has to go.

Last year many thought it would be Woodson, who was in the final season of his contract and inherited a new boss in longtime Seattle executive Rick Sund, who was hired as the team's general manager last May. But a tough (and entertaining) seven-game series with Boston ignited an apathetic Atlanta fan base, essentially forcing Sund's hand and earning Woodson a two-year extension.

Then, after a month of fruitless negotiating with Atlanta last summer, Smith thought he was moving on when Memphis signed him to a five-year, $58 million offer sheet. But the Hawks, who had already lost valuable reserve Josh Childress to Europe a few weeks earlier, quickly matched the offer.

Which brings us to today. The Hawks are still struggling to develop consistency with a young, talented roster. They have big wins, such as a 100-93 win over Utah on Wednesday that snapped the Jazz's 12-game winning streak. But they also have puzzling defeats, like last month's 24-point home loss to the Clippers. At 37-28, Atlanta is a virtual lock to make the playoffs for the second year in a row. But after starting the season 21-10, the Hawks are a pedestrian 16-18 through Wednesday, and barring a prolonged playoff run (read: out of the first round), either Woodson or Smith may have to go.

Which one could go isn't clear. Smith's age (23) and productivity make him tradable, which may appeal to the cash-strapped Hawks ownership group. According to court documents, the Hawks owners have lost $50 million the last two seasons and are currently embroiled in a prolonged legal battle with estranged part-owner Steve Belkin. If the team hopes to find the money to re-sign point guard Mike Bibby, it may encourage Sund to send Smith packing in return for shorter contracts or to a team like Memphis, which has the cap space to absorb him outright. But trading Smith would not only take a jackhammer to the Hawks' rebuilding project, but also would alienate the fans. Attendance, which has been growing the past three years, would almost certainly suffer.

That makes Woodson the more likely target. Atlanta would be on the hook for the final year of Woodson's contract and budget limits would probably prevent the Hawks from flirting with some of the big names (Flip Saunders, Eddie Jordan, Avery Johnson) on the market. But bringing in a new coach would be an opportunity for Sund to put his stamp on the team. And if Sund feels the relationship between Woodson and Smith is beyond repair or that the constant battling is hindering the team's progress, such an opportunity might be difficult for the GM to pass up.

During the offseason of course.

Dallas
----------
Sends
Josh Howard
Antoine Wright

Atlanta
----------
Sends
Josh Smith
2nd Round pick

Atlanta Staring Lineup
C-Al Horford
PF-Marvin Williams
SF-Josh Howard
SG-Joe Johnson
PG-Mike Bibby

This would you give yall another solid scoring threat.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

No thank you. Marvin and Howard would be 2 SF's out there at the same time, with a PF in Horford playing center. Smallest frontcourt in the NBA then. Not to mention Smith>>>>Howard, in the sense that Smith has way more upside, he's only 23, and also that whole Howard "weed" issue. I wouldn't mind seeing if we can trade Smith and our 1st for a good center or PG. That is what we need so we could move Horford over to the PF or finally have a good young PG. Bibby has been great for us, but I would like to have someone for when he is gone, and for our future with Marvin and Horford.

[raleigh]

Nice title. Sekou, is that you sellin' papers again?

[jcldallas24]

Nice title. Sekou, is that you sellin' papers again?

Who is Sekou?

[Scott Carefoot]

Most of the Raptors fans are against me but since Smith appears to want out, this would be a good time to bring up the blockbuster I proposed on my blog:

To properly rebuild, the Raptors need three things: youth, cap space and draft picks. Here's a trade that will help on all three fronts: Chris Bosh (signed to a contract extension) and Jose Calderon to Atlanta for Josh Smith, Speedy Claxton's $5.2 million expiring contract, and the Hawks' first round picks in 2009 and 2011.

The key to this trade is the fact that the Hawks have the cap space to take back more money than they send out. This move would give the Raptors an additional $8 million in cap space that they can use to re-sign Joey Graham to a reasonable deal (something like three years, $9 million) and then sign a free agent shooting guard like Ben Gordon or Carlos Delfino.

Now, this trade is obviously in your favor talent-wise, but I would still do this as Raptors GM because I believe that team needs a full rebuild and this trade would provide the cap space, draft picks and youth that are needed for that process.

So what do Hawks fans think about my proposal? It seems to me you might be favorites to win the East next season after that trade.

[raleigh]

Nice title. Sekou, is that you sellin' papers again?

Who is Sekou?

The better question is, "Where in that article does it mention Smith wanting out?" He didn't sign with Memphis to "get out," he signed with them to "get paid."

[jcldallas24]

Nice title. Sekou, is that you sellin' papers again?

Who is Sekou?

The better question is, "Where in that article does it mention Smith wanting out?" He didn't sign with Memphis to "get out," he signed with them to "get paid."

Actually it doesn't mention that anywhere i guess i put the wrong tittle it should've been

Josh Smith Or Woodson? you decide

LOL it sounds like a presidential race.

[HMFFL]

It's always useless to involve Dallas and Atlanta when the Joshes are involved.

Dallas doesn't need Josh Smith, what at the 3? HA!

Atlanta doesn't need Josh Howard when they have Marvin Williams and he's cheaper.

[JoshB914]

1) There is not one word in that entire article indicating Smith "wants out."

2) The fight in the locker room against Charlotte was not about Smith taking too many dumb shots, if I remember correctly it was related to him not getting back on defense on the final play of the half.

3) I would really like to figure out how Josh Smith considers himself a "traditional scorer with three point range" when he completely stopped a couple of months ago (look like Woody didn't have to "forbid" him from shooting threes after all as many said).

4) Chris Mannix always has been and still is a complete joke. This article is riddled with fact errors and is simply his interpretation of the situation between the two after doing absolutely zero research.

[HMFFL]

I just read the article after I hunted down the link.

I find it to be rather silly because the writer just jumps around all over the place as if he read the AJC for a year and decide to write his own article about it.

[evildallas]

IF the two can't co-exist any longer and that's an IF. It would be most likely that the divorce would happen in the summer of 2010 with Woodson not being retained. My reasoning is it is less expensive to do it that way than to trade Josh in a depressed market almost guaranteed a pennies on the dollar return.

It would be better if Josh played offensively around the rim instead of launching 3s, but to really set in I think he needs to hear it from someone whom he respects and might listen to. Woodson was his pro coach from day 1 and if think back to those first 2 seasons (more actually) it was apparent that Woodson was learning on the job and wasn't as far along as a coach as Smith was as a player. Furthermore, I don't think Smith has ever moved passed Woodson's good soldier performance in year 3 when it seemed like we were tanking in hopes of keeping our draft pick. Who is that coach he'd respect? Not sure, but if hired in 2010 odds are he'll have a longer contract than Smith which might help.

Also, those Woodson facial expressions aren't reserved just for Smith. He has a unhappy, borderline stupid expression on his face 50% of the time. And Shawn Marion in his glory days spent most of his time on the perimeter offensively crashing the boards when Phoenix launched a long jumper or cutting to the basket when Nash broke the defense down. It's hard to block out an athletic guying coming from that far out. If Marion stayed underneath all the time on offense, a larger traditional PF could block him out effectively. Same applies to Josh, the difference being that Josh hasn't solidified his 3 point range and that he's never had a penetrating point to break down the offense creating those easy dunks.

[Skyhawk1]

Why would Smith want out ? He's getting paid here what he will in any team in the league, and there's more, most coaches would bench him way more than Woodson does, cause they have someone better than S. Jones to back him up. Now, I want him out and I hope Sunds thinks that way too. My problem isn't even that he's gone at it with Woodson many times. He lacks a bunch of basketball fundamentals that are needed in order to win big in this league. I cheer for him while he's a Hawk cause I'm about the team, but I can't wait to see him gone. This trade with the Mavs would only work if Marvin is gone. Then I'd do it and then try to get a C somehow.

[LL Cool Scott]

The timing of that article couldn't be more ridiculous. It's kind of funny that he wrote that article despite the situation improving rapidly over the past week. It's like dude decided to write an easy article a few days ago, and then just willfully ignored the facts and ran with it anyway. Josh Smith just had probably his best stretch of the year and he and Woodson were slapping fives last night during the game.

As for trading him, I don't want to do it unless we got something close to fair value. And that's not likely unless some team wants to blow up their roster and have a fire sale.

[conleyorbust]

The timing of that article couldn't be more ridiculous. It's kind of funny that he wrote that article despite the situation improving rapidly over the past week. It's like dude decided to write an easy article a few days ago, and then just willfully ignored the facts and ran with it anyway. Josh Smith just had probably his best stretch of the year and he and Woodson were slapping fives last night during the game.

As for trading him, I don't want to do it unless we got something close to fair value. And that's not likely unless some team wants to blow up their roster and have a fire sale.

Editor: We need an article about the Hawks, anyone know anything?
Mannix: I read Ric Bucher's article in the offseason about either Smith or Woodson had to be gone, I can rewrite that.
Editor: Do it, no one follows the Hawks anyway.

[JoshB914]

^^^ Yup. Woodson/Smith has become the new Paul/Marvin in the media.

[Rapsobsessed7]

raptors would do something on the lines of:

Bosh
Roko

For

Smith
Law
2009 1st

[HoopsGuru25]

raptors would do something on the lines of:

Bosh
Roko

For

Smith
Law
2009 1st

There's no way Colangelo would do that. If the Raptors are willing to trade Bosh for 60 cents on the dollar...then my guess would be that they would throw Kapono and Speedy in the trade.

[Rapsobsessed7]

i posted this before and wasnt sure for atlanta so i posted that previous deal. This one is better for toronto but dont know if atlanta does it.

what about something on the lines of:

Raptors Trade:
Chris Bosh $14,410,581 (Signed to an extension)
Nathan Jawai $442,114
3 million Cash(Miami Deal)

For:

Atlanta Trades:
Josh Smith $10,000,000 BYC(5 million)
Marvin Williams $5,636,142 S&T BYC(9 million but you use his previous salary)
Randolph Morris $797, 581

- Resign Bibby or another point guard
- Resign Zaza Pachulia
- Sign Childress
- Draft Derozan with their pick
- Buy late pick with Cash draft hansbrough
- Sign Joe Smith (vet minimum)
- Resign Ronald Murray

Bibby/Law/Claxton
Johnson/Evans/Murray
Childress/Derozan
Bosh/Smith/Hansbrough
Horford/Pachulia/Jawai

[tontoz]

Personally i think any Hawks fan would aggree to trade Smith for a resigned Bosh almost regardless of the other players in the deal as long as it isn't too crazy.

I think the problem will be the cost of Bosh's new deal with the new CBA looming which could be far more restrictive on player salaries.

[SportsFan215]

How about Kaman/Thornton for Josh Smith in the offseason?