The on-going game of... "How Much Would You Sign ________?"

mattlanta · Post #1 » by **mattlanta** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:44 pm

You don't have to do all of them, but it's part of the 'game' if you want to call it that lol... it may take some time for you to consider how much you'd resign every one of these players though. Pretend like you have all the cap space in the world... just wondering how much you think they'll ask for and/or how much you guys would actually offer if you were a GM of a team.

How much would you sign/resign...

G Mike Bibby
F Marvin Williams
G Flip Murray
C Zaza Pachulia
C Solomon Jones
G Mario West

G Raymond Felton
G Jarret Jack
G Allen Iverson
G Nate Robinson
G Andre Miller
G Steve Nash
G Stephon Marbury
G Ramon Sessions
G Trevor Ariza

F Charlie Villanueva
F Ron Artest
F Rasheed Wallace
F David Lee

C Marcin Gortat
C Dikembo Mutombo

(I'll be posting more when I think of more players)

raleigh · Post #2 » by **raleigh** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:58 pm

Bibby - 3 yrs., $21M
Marvin - 5 yrs., $45M
Flip - 3 yrs., $10M
Zaza - 3 yrs., $13M
Solo - nothing
Mario - minimum, but guaranteed this time

Felton - nothing (don't like him)
Jack - 3 yrs., $13M
Iverson - nothing (would rather have a number of others first)
Nate - nothing (too short)
Miller - see Iverson
Nash - 3 yrs., $17M
Starbury - nothing EVER
Sessions - nothing (too unproven on a winning team)
Ariza - 2 yrs., $5M (replaceable talent)

Charlie V - minimum (not impressed with offense-only players)
Artest - nothing (chemistry issues)
Sheed - 2 yrs., $11M (MLE)
Lee - nothing (duplicates Horford)

Gortat - 2 yrs., $6M
Mutombo - minimum

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #3 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:04 am

stephon would have to pay me to play for the hawks if i was the GM

johnny878 · Post #4 » by **johnny878** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:16 am

Bibby- 0. needs to go.

evildallas · Post #5 » by **evildallas** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:41 am

mrhonline inspired me to respond by taking the time to express his thoughts, so here are mine:

G Mike Bibby 3 yr/ 25M
F Marvin Williams 5 yr/40M
G Flip Murray 3 yr/12M
C Zaza Pachulia 3 yr/12M
C Solomon Jones Not a dime
G Mario West minimum, but I actually try to coach him past the things that limit his PT

G Raymond Felton hate him
G Jarret Jack 3 yr/12M (but not if Murray signs)
G Allen Iverson nope
G Nate Robinson nope
G Andre Miller 3 yr/20M (if Bibby's gone, that's the range)
G Steve Nash nope, if I just wanted to sell tickets I would, but not my goal at this point
G Stephon Marbury never
G Ramon Sessions 3 yrs/12M (but I prefer Murray)
G Trevor Ariza no interest

F Charlie Villanueva no interest
F Ron Artest 3 yr/27M (only if not investing in Marvin)
F Rasheed Wallace never
F David Lee not interested because of our roster, but otherwise I would have gone 3 yr/Full MLE

C Marcin Gortat 3 yr/12M (if Zaza leaves, he hasn't shown enough to make me sure he can step into a bigger role)
C Dikembo Mutombo not this year

Some free agents left off (imo):
G Ben Gordon 4 yr/30M (if Bibby's gone, but I prefer to trade Speedy's expiring contract to fill PG)
F Matt Barnes 2yr/Biannual exception
F Shawn Marion never, but he deserves mention
F/C Chris Anderson 2 yr/6M
F/C Antonio McDyess not willing to outbid Detroit
F/C Chris Wilcox not interested because he doesn't add enough length for us to be big of choice
C Johan Petro 3 yr/8M
C Rasho Nesterovic 1 yr/3M (if Zaza leaves)

johnny878 · Post #6 » by **johnny878** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:56 am

why would you not sign nash but resign bibby for 25 mil?

nash is better than bibby in pretty much everything.

raleigh · Post #7 » by **raleigh** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:29 am

evildallas wrote:G Raymond Felton hate him

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

The Bobcats' draft picks have arguably been worse than the Hawks'...

evildallas · Post #8 » by **evildallas** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:54 am

johnny878 wrote:why would you not sign nash but resign bibby for 25 mil?

nash is better than bibby in pretty much everything.

Actually I believe that Nash is considerably worse in D and considering that Bibby isn't strong defensively that is saying something. Beyond that, the real deciding factors are age and system. Nash is 35 and that's really old for a guard. Sure he can still thrill and penetrate, but any term of contract over a year contains great risk. When the step goes or health breaks down you want Nash to be wrapping up a deal not with years to go. Next is the system. If we were going to run and gun then sure, Nash is great guy to have in that system. Last I checked we don't do that. In spite of his excellent 3 point shooting, I'm not sure he does as well in the Woodson system. Don't get me wrong I have hated Woodson for years, but I'm a realist and he's going to finish out his deal. As such I'm not inclined to throw money to put people in situations to fail under him. Say what you will but Bibby fits how Woodson likes to play offense in the half court.

For Nash to be successful here there would have to be changes in the way the team plays and possibly in some personnel. I don't feel good investing long term in him because of his age. I don't feel good about altering the team to fit him for just a one year run at it. It might be different if I had an heir apparent on the bench to take over that style of team, but I don't have that. To summarize, the confluence of factors make this a case of wrong place, wrong time for the Hawks and Steve Nash. He'd be a wonderful fit for the right team on a year to year basis. I just don't think it is us.

evildallas · Post #9 » by **evildallas** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:13 am

Forgot, 1 more free agent:

Josh Childress I don't want him signed. I don't like his skill set and think the team would regress if resigning him. He's a much better fit for a team that can put him on the floor with 4 shooters, so he doesn't have to.

johnny878 · Post #10 » by **johnny878** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:00 am

evildallas wrote:
johnny878 wrote:why would you not sign nash but resign bibby for 25 mil?

nash is better than bibby in pretty much everything.

Actually I believe that Nash is considerably worse in D and considering that Bibby isn't strong defensively that is saying something. Beyond that, the real deciding factors are age and system. Nash is 35 and that's really old for a guard. Sure he can still thrill and penetrate, but any term of contract over a year contains great risk. When the step goes or health breaks down you want Nash to be wrapping up a deal not with years to go. Next is the system. If we were going to run and gun then sure, Nash is great guy to have in that system. Last I checked we don't do that. In spite of his excellent 3 point shooting, I'm not sure he does as well in the Woodson system. Don't get me wrong I have hated Woodson for years, but I'm a realist and he's going to finish out his deal. As such I'm not inclined to throw money to put people in situations to fail under him. Say what you will but Bibby fits how Woodson likes to play offense in the half court.

For Nash to be successful here there would have to be changes in the way the team plays and possibly in some personnel. I don't feel good investing long term in him because of his age. I don't feel good about altering the team to fit him for just a one year run at it. It might be different if I had an heir apparent on the bench to take over that style of team, but I don't have that. To summarize, the confluence of factors make this a case of wrong place, wrong time for the Hawks and Steve Nash. He'd be a wonderful fit for the right team on a year to year basis. I just don't think it is us.

Nash is just as good as a shooter as bibby if not better and HE CAN ACTUALLY CREATE FOR HIS TEAMMATES. holy smokes, a point guard that can create for his teammates. its been like 10 years since atlanta has had one of those.

Bibby and nash are both horrible on defense. i dont know how you can say nash is considerably worse then bibby. Nash atleast looks like he tries.

mattlanta · Post #11 » by **mattlanta** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:19 pm

how big of an effect does the economy play on their prices? i remember my friend saying that felton would normally be getting 8-10 million if our economy wasn't in the can and i said he was crazy... i know his value is around 6-7 mill per year though... so how big of an effect does the economy really have on these players?

evildallas · Post #12 » by **evildallas** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:50 pm

Libid21 wrote:how big of an effect does the economy play on their prices? i remember my friend saying that felton would normally be getting 8-10 million if our economy wasn't in the can and i said he was crazy... i know his value is around 6-7 mill per year though... so how big of an effect does the economy really have on these players?

I factored it into my guesses. The other key is the upcoming new collective bargaining agreement (with or without lockout). Owners anticipate a shift in salary structure. If that does happen then long term deals at inflated prices would be even greater albatrosses. The Hawks are fortunate in that they only have Josh Smith inked long term at this time. The Bobcats already have about 38M in salaries for 2011/2012 in just Okafor, Diaw, Wallace, and Diop. With those deals on the books it is hard to believe they would overpaying Felton considering they don't seem sold on him.

Your friend is right in that teams had been extending contracts like that (Hinrich, Diaw, etc). However, I think you're right in that 6-7M was more accurate and a team would regret paying to that level for Felton. I would rank his salary level even lower myself (5-6M). You have to be careful who you invest long term in and I don't think Larry Brown is sold on Felton.

mattlanta · Post #13 » by **mattlanta** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:58 pm

johnny878 wrote:Bibby- 0. needs to go.

sippin on some haterade eh?

Rod700 · Post #14 » by **Rod700** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:12 am

Don't have time to do them all, but here they are

G Mike Bibby 3yrs 24 million at the very most. Really just comes down to if we can't find anyone better, and how much competition we have in signing him.
F Marvin Williams 5 years 37.5 mil
G Flip Murray 3 years 16.5 mil at the most but we can get him cheaper than that. His price rises if Bibby walks and we can't find a suitable replacement for a reasonable cost though.
C Zaza Pachulia 3 yrs 12mil
C Solomon Jones: Let him walk
G Mario West: I think we can get him for the guaranteed minimum, but I would be willing to go 5 mil over 2 yrs
Not sure if we could afford to resign everyone at that price, but that is the ceiling I place on each player.

G Allen Iverson: 3 yrs 21 mil
G Steve Nash: 3 yrs 21 mil (actually the guy I'd like to have but paying him less than I would Bibby because of age)
F Ron Artest: 5 year 39 mil
C Dikembo Mutombo: Minimum, but would love to have him as a guy who makes brief appearances against teams with big centers to disrupt their offense.

theatlfan · Post #15 » by **theatlfan** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:50 pm

Interesting thoughts here... my disagreements:
Flip Murray - 2 yrs/$5 mil; he was just about out of the NBA and looking overseas last year before we took a chance. He's done well for us, but giving him $5+ mil per is waaaay overkill. Simply a guarantee on year 2 and a modest raise should be more than enough.
Zaza - 3 years/$15 mil. He took 3 for 12 on his current contract and developed into an OK backup big. He's due for a raise.
Solo - re-up @ the mini. Look he's better than Randolph Morris, I have no problem with him as a 10th-12th guy.

Felton - 4 yrs / $25 mil. Not high on him as far as fit, but he's young and a legit NBA starting G.
Jack - anything less than 4 years / $20 mil then you can simply forget about him and say 0. IND would match anything less. We shouldn't be in a position where we'd bother to offer though.
Nash - 3 yrs / $35 mil. We can't do it, but he is the best offensive PG in the game right now and would find a way to fit into any system.
Sessions - see Jack, but prolly up the terms to $40 mil over 5.

Villanueva - Somewhere in the 3 yr / $25 mil range. I'd hesitate the entire time, but there's too much upside there to ignore. Again, I don't see us in the position to do this, but if the cap wasn't a factor...