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Is there anyway in helll that if we stick with Mike Woodson that we will continue to improve and become a contender? People wanted Mike Browns head a while back and now hes coach the best team in basketball while receive the highest coaching acilade. Woody is no Mike Brown by any stretch of the imagination. We have made some pretty significant improvement over the course of his tenure but do you think we will contiune to improve? I almost positive we could be a lot better with a different coach but it loooks like were sticking with Woody. Thoughts?

We need better talent to become a contender....but this thread is a huge overreaction. It was a big loss because it was at home but the series is still 1-1 and very winnable. The only teams that are 2-0 right now are the Lakers and the Cavs...who are obviously completely healthy and WAY more talented than any one else. I would be upset at alot of people(including Woodson) if the Hawks were to lose the series but I'm not even thinking about that right now. We are locked in a battle to get to the 2nd round just like every other team besides the two who will eventually play in the finals.

This isnt a reaction to the lost tonight at all. This is about the 3rd or 4th time this has happened. We had an impressive win and then get shown up the next game by an inferior team. Just me personally its get tireing watcing the same old s*** happen over and over again. I just gotta beleive that we would be able to avoid these embarassments with better coaching.
Dont take this as a reaction to the lost tonight.

I've been hard on Woodson but tonight wasn't his fault. We played pitiful defense and let their big men push us around. In the playoffs, basketball's not a contact sport -- it's a collision sport.

What I'll complain about Woodson is his offense STILL stinks. It's too guard-dominated.

And speaking of guards, where was Joe?

I don't like Woodson's coaching, but I don't think what happened tonight changed my opinion of him. I think we depend way too much on one on one play in the halfcourt but I can't blame him for Miami getting red hot and the Hawks giving away points at the free throw line. They just outplayed us. I'm not going to blame Pop for SA splitting the 1st two games either.

If Kenny Smith can point out what weve been preaching about the whole year then why cant Woody see it? Kenny has talked about how bad the offense is bc its strictly a one on one based offense and unless we have the fast break going we struggle to win ball games. Something has to change if we want to take that next step.

Keeping Woody already has paid off. We have improved every year by just staying patient and allowing him to develop and improve as a coach (just as the players have).

I do agree with sneakerking that he might not be the guy to coach us to the next level. But we are so far away from a personnel standpoint from becoming a championship team that I don't think that matters that much.

JoshB, don't like your argument, even if the team isn't "ready" yet, that is no reason to accept inferiour coaching. Not only do I think that better coaching would improve the team, but also the individual players.

Woodson just doesn't implement intelligent, innovative design. Iso Joe with perhaps the deepest starting 5 in the league is a joke and doesn't appear to be a very bright strategy.

The # of wins has improved with the maturation of our 20 year olds. I don't give Woodson much credit for the teams improvement. Get a better coach, with high intelligence and innovative schemes and you'll see the effect of coaching.

I'm sure Fratello was drooling at the idea of working with our team watching that first game. He would kow what to do to exploit the talent that he has, without a list of excuses (Woody). I'm pretty sure that he'd implement a half-court off that would be effective without compromising our teams advantages.

I'm not necessarily saying that Fratello should be our next coach; just that Woodson should't be extented. The sooner we replace him, the better.

You want the double teams on JJ to stop, create an offense that gets easy baskets for the other four players, using JJ as a decoy and good ball and off ball movement. Sooner or later JJ would begin to get free to spot up outside and hit uncontested shots. Of course, he can drive. Next play back to JJ the decoy and back door cuts and screens.

Why is there are little NBA schemes and strategies employed by our team? Bad coaching.

The Hawks have no post threat on the roster and have just one guy who can consistently beat a man 1 on 1 to draw a double team. (actually- Flip has been able to do that as well this season so this isn't actually true anymore) THe basis of any offense is how to draw a doubleteam to start the defense into scrambling mode and for how deep people think the Hawks are, the offense is going to have issues no matter who the coach is. Josh Smith is a tough player to use effectively in the half court offense. Horford at this point is still a liability in the half court offense. marvin made huge strides this year from the outside but he still hadn't show the ability to consistently exploit poor defenders 1 on 1. Bibby has had a resurgent year and its made a massive difference to the team but he isn't a guy who excels as the focal point of the offense. There are some things I would do differently but I think that people are missing that there are inherent issues that have to be worked around for the Hawks on offense.

tbhawksfan wrote:JoshB, don't like your argument, even if the team isn't "ready" yet, that is no reason to accept inferiour coaching. Not only do I think that better coaching would improve the team, but also the individual players.

Woodson just doesn't implement intelligent, innovative design. Iso Joe with perhaps the deepest starting 5 in the league is a joke and doesn't appear to be a very bright strategy.

The # of wins has improved with the maturation of our 20 year olds. I don't give Woodson much credit for the teams improvement. Get a better coach, with high intelligence and innovative schemes and you'll see the effect of coaching.

I'm sure Fratello was drooling at the idea of working with our team watching that first game. He would kow what to do to exploit the talent that he has, without a list of excuses (Woody). I'm pretty sure that he'd implement a half-court off that would be effective without compromising our teams advantages.

I'm not necessarily saying that Fratello should be our next coach; just that Woodson should't be extented. The sooner we replace him, the better.

You want the double teams on JJ to stop, create an offense that gets easy baskets for the other four players, using JJ as a decoy and good ball and off ball movement. Sooner or later JJ would begin to get free to spot up outside and hit uncontested shots. Of course, he can drive. Next play back to JJ the decoy and back door cuts and screens.

Why is there are little NBA schemes and strategies employed by our team? Bad coaching.

Well first of all, it's important to remember that ASG aren't going to spend big bucks on a championship caliber coach in the first place. MAYBE if we can improve our roster to the point that it becomes obvious that Woody is the weakest link they would do that. That is why I wanted to keep Woody after last season. We weren't going to go get a proven coach anyways. Might as well keep a guy that has been here and knows the personnel for the sake of continuity if nothing else.

And it is completely unfair to give Woody no credit for the improvements the team has made. If you aren't going to credit him at all for victories then you can't turn around and blame losses on him either.

killbuckner wrote:The Hawks have no post threat on the roster and have just one guy who can consistently beat a man 1 on 1 to draw a double team. (actually- Flip has been able to do that as well this season so this isn't actually true anymore) THe basis of any offense is how to draw a doubleteam to start the defense into scrambling mode and for how deep people think the Hawks are, the offense is going to have issues no matter who the coach is. Josh Smith is a tough player to use effectively in the half court offense. Horford at this point is still a liability in the half court offense. marvin made huge strides this year from the outside but he still hadn't show the ability to consistently exploit poor defenders 1 on 1. Bibby has had a resurgent year and its made a massive difference to the team but he isn't a guy who excels as the focal point of the offense. There are some things I would do differently but I think that people are missing that there are inherent issues that have to be worked around for the Hawks on offense.

Your excuses for Woody don't wash. The Hawks have had success when they have moved the ball around. they have had success when Bibby runs pick and rolls with Smith/Horford. Woody just prefers to run isos with one guy dribbling away while everyone else stands around watching him.

It doen't take great skill to move without the ball.

Tontoz- Atlanta was a top 10 team in the league this year in offensive efficiency. Given the roster I think thats a good coaching job. I just can't imagine where you think that the Hawks should have been ranked for Woodson to get some credit. Woodson got more out of Bibby and Flip than anyone thought possible this season- I am just astounded that no one gives him any credit at all.

Here are the teams ahead of the hawks this season- you let me know which teams you think the Hawks should have been better than with competent coaching.

Phoenix
Portland
Lakers
Cleveland
Dallas
Boston
Denver
Orlando
Utah

killbuckner wrote:Tontoz- Atlanta was a top 10 team in the league this year in offensive efficiency. Given the roster I think thats a good coaching job. I just can't imagine where you think that the Hawks should have been ranked for Woodson to get some credit. Woodson got more out of Bibby and Flip than anyone thought possible this season- I am just astounded that no one gives him any credit at all.

Here are the teams ahead of the hawks this season- you let me know which teams you think the Hawks should have been better than with competent coaching.

Phoenix
Portland
Lakers
Cleveland
Dallas
Boston
Denver
Orlando
Utah

Nice attempt to change the subject. That might work with someone who doesn't watch the games.

the Hawks half court offense blows. They run iso after iso and that can easily be exploited by a competent defense and a coach that has a clue. All the guys on the TNT crew are right about the Hawks offense. They have talent and they are good on the break but in the half court offense sucks. even on the break they shoot themselves in the foot by shooting too many 3s and letting Smith bring the ball up.

You think Woody should get credit for letting Flip do whatever he wants on offense? Sorry but that isn't good coaching.

Hilarious. Most predictable thread of the season so far.

^^^ Just out of curiosity, how would you prefer our half court offense to look outside of running more PNR?

Woodson got this offense to be top 10 in the league. I just can't understand how you can criticize him considering how much production he got this season. You think that the Hawks offense should have been better than the teams listed above!?

JoshB914 wrote:^^^ Just out of curiosity, how would you prefer our half court offense to look outside of running more PNR?

More passing and moving without the ball, less 10 dribble and fadeaway possessions.

killbuckner wrote:Woodson got this offense to be top 10 in the league. I just can't understand how you can criticize him considering how much production he got this season. You think that the Hawks offense should have been better than the teams listed above!?

Yet again you are avoiding the issue. The issue is whether or not the Hawks offense would be better if they actually ran plays other than isos.

You always focus on what the hawks don't have. Let me tell you what they do have. They have 5 of their top 8 rotation players shooting at least 35% from 3. Virtually all of their players are effective running the floor. Few teams can make that claim and it has nothing to do with Woody.

Look - Woodson's no offensive genius. Some might even argue he's borderline (Please Use More Appropriate Word) when it comes to offense. But look at the defensive game plan he's put together this series. How many times have you seen Dwayne Wade (the best penetrator in the game) score in the lane. His defensive game plan has been REMARKABLE. I'll take his offensive shortcomings if he coaches our defense this well.

However, do you people really think we'd be a much better team with somebody else coaching these guys??? It's not like we have elite talent on this squad. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Al Horford aren't a championship nucleus.

This scapegoating of Woodson every time we lose is so ridiculous.

LL Cool Scott wrote:Look - Woodson's no offensive genius. Some might even argue he's borderline (Please Use More Appropriate Word) when it comes to offense. But look at the defensive game plan he's put together this series. How many times have you seen Dwayne Wade (the best penetrator in the game) score in the lane. His defensive game plan has been REMARKABLE. I'll take his offensive shortcomings if he coaches our defense this well.

However, do you people really think we'd be a much better team with somebody else coaching these guys??? It's not like we have elite talent on this squad. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Al Horford aren't a championship nucleus.

This scapegoating of Woodson every time we lose is so ridiculous.

I guess the TNT announcers have no clue what they are talking about either because they are saying the exact same thing, that the Hawks half court offense blows.

Defensively having mobile bigs helps to cut off Wades drives. But leaving Mo and Flip isolated on Wade for extended minutes makes no sense. Neither of those guys have much of a chance. Marvin needs more minutes whether he is 100% or not and Mario should see some time on Wade.