Erick Maynor as a Hawk

[DeShaunRed]

"Up and down, running a lot of pick and roll sets where the point guard has the ball in his hands a lot and making plays," he said. "Just setting guys up and stuff like that."

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59770/20090612/maynor_wants_to_play_in_fast_paced_offense/

I know a lot of you guys want to re-sign Bibby but do you think Maynor can contribute right away? He seems really confident about playing with a fast-paced team.

I like his fast-game but he can be a liability in defense (not new to me wit Bibby). Not sure though if he can shoot 3's but he can definitely penetrate.

What do you think?

[JoshB914]

I don't watch a ton of college ball, but have wanted Maynor since way back in November; a smart PG who hits the big shots, distributes, and can get to the foul line.

[raleigh]

I see him as only marginally better than the Hawks' PG that can't crack the rotation. I'd rather go a different direction.

I think it was DX.com that mentioned many GM's 'like him, but don't love him.' I feel the same way (and felt the same way about Law).

[HoopsGuru25]

I like Maynor more than Law. Maynor is a true point guard and I am confident that he will be able to hit the NBA 3. The problem is that he is pretty weak(even compared to Acie who is atleast 20 pounds bigger) and he doesn't have great quickness. I'd probably project him as a guy who will turn into a solid backup/occasional spot starter like Steve Blake or Chris Duhon.

[evildallas]

I like Maynor a lot more than Law because of his speed. He's got good height, but is extremely slim (like Aaron Brooks). That used to be a problem, but with the way they call the game these days it isn't a big problem. Not sure how he is on defense.

No rookie point (except Chris Paul) is going to step in and run the team at a high level from day 1. Mario Chalmers did well last year for the Heat, but was a bit lost come playoff time. Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, and Aaron Brooks needed 2 years to take over and really hit their stride by year 3 (well, Brooks isn't in year 3 yet, but had his coming out party in the playoffs this year). That should be the reasonable expectation of a PG in this draft. Play some in year one to get feet wet, start in year 2, break out in year 3. If we can get that from a pick at #19 whether it be Maynor, Lawson, Mills or whomever we should be happy. This time table is why I'm pretty much done with Acie Law. Unless he really develops this summer, I can't imagine him playing many minutes next year which is his 3rd year. With his level of development so far I can say that I would expect him to break out until after we have to make a decision on him after his rookie deal. That's sad for a guy who was supposed to be ready to come in and play out of college. I think the problem is he has some all around skills but doesn't do anything well enough to establish an identity in the pros.

If we draft a PG of the future, I still think we'd need another year or 2 out of either Bibby, a trade for a PG (Hinrich or Watson) or even Flip as a starter before turning the reigns over. I would only see committing to a long term free agent (like Sessions or Felton) if we go elsewhere in the draft like SG, SF, or PF because I don't think it would open up a rookie PG to the right development opportunity to take over. If we go into the season expecting a major role be played by Acie, I'll be sadly disappointed in our prospects for success.

[raleigh]

If you're drafting a PG "for the future," I would hope the choice is not a four-year college player like Maynor.

Mills or Jennings make more sense in that regard.

[Harry10]

Maynor looks good, and he looks like the safe pick in this year's draft class..... the thing about that is that Law was the safe pick a few years ago (Marcus Williams can be put in the same catigory with Maynor and Law). Just like Law, Maynor was the worst athlete in his PG draft class but got alot of props because of his skills and leadership on the college level.

Hawks should learn from their mistakes and take a guy like Crittenton or Rondo. i would rather the Hawks do something different for once and pick a lighting quick PG

Just like with Law and Marcus Williams, since they were all seniors, i think what you see them do in their first two year, is what you will get out of them for the rest of their NBA career.

[evildallas]

PG of the future merely means the one who's going to take over the starting job and then hold it for a long. If you think a 4 year college player has to start immediately then you are being unfair to that player. Between the adjustment to the longer season and the responsibilities of the PG position, it is too much for a rookie to handle and take a team deep in the playoffs run (which is hopefully the expectation of this team).

[evildallas]

Maynor looks good, and he looks like the safe pick in this year's draft class..... the thing about that is that Law was the safe pick a few years ago (Marcus Williams can be put in the same catigory with Maynor and Law). Just like Law, Maynor was the worst athlete in his PG draft class but got alot of props because of his skills and leadership on the college level.

Hawks should learn from their mistakes and take a guy like Crittenton or Rondo. i would rather the Hawks do something different for once and pick a lighting quick PG

Just like with Law and Marcus Williams, since they were all seniors, i think what you see them do in their rookie year, is what you will get out of them for the rest of their NBA career.

I had to go check the numbers on your athlete comment because I hadn't heard that evaluation of Maynor before. Of course these are just combine measurements and what you see on the court is more important.

[url=http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2009&sort2=ASC&draft=0&pos=1&sort=13]Figures[url]

If you isolate PG, you find Maynor's #5 in lane agility (10.78) and #8 in sprint (3.19) posting better numbers than Acie in both areas. Acie measured out equal to AJ Price in speed areas, which is pretty bad for this year's cropo (Stephen Curry was last). Acie has slightly higher vertical numbers, but those aren't as important for a PG as other positions and neither one will be confused with Jonny Flynn (best) or Grevis Vasquez (dead last).

The year he came out Acie tested out better at the combine than was expected. He had the 3rd best lane agility score (a rather pedestrian 11 compared to this year's crop) trailing Aaron Brooks (10.57) and undrafted Dominic James (10.94). Acie also was 6th in sprint at 3.22 well off Mike Conley's 3.09, but equal to Chris Paul's sprint score at the combine in 2005. It just wasn't that athletic of a year for PGs. Crittenton had lower scores of 3.32 and 11.6 respectively, but he's a bigger PG so you expect to lose some speed.

This year is a bit different in that respect. The speed and agility scores were better for PGs. For sheer speed, I give you Toney Douglas, who 3.03 is just below Nate Robinson (2.96) and Will Bynum (3) and ahead of the likes of Derrick Rose (3.05), Raymond Felton (3.06), DJ Augustin (3.07), Jerryd Bayless (3.07) and Russell Westbrook (3.08). Of course, Douglas isn't a real PG and would project more as designated scorer from the 2nd unit like Flip. Darren Collison (3.10), Patty Mills (3.10) and Ty Lawson (3.12) have good numbers for the sprint and project more as PGs. For lane agility, Darren Collison was best at 10.45 with Rodrique Beaubois at 3.49. For comparison, some of the tops of recent years have been Jay Williams (10.34), Chris Duhon (10.45), Raymond Felton (10.50), Dwayne Wade (10.56) and Aaron Brooks (10.57).

You were right that Marcus Williams speed and agility numbers were bad (3.40 and 11.30 respectively). He had weight issues as well which is something you don't expect in a PG.

What's this all mean? Not much, testing results pegged Acie Law as similar to Chris Paul in speed and agility. Of course, on court it looks much different because basketball IQ, vision, speed of thought and instincts factor in to have Chris Paul play much faster. Last year, Derrick Rose was horrible on lane agility test with 11.69. However watching the games tell me that it is hard for defenses to stay in front of him and he can penetrate at will. Ramon Sessions didn't test out well at his combine either (3.27 and 11.65), but what I see on the court in the NBA is far more impressive. He went 56th the year we drafted Acie Law with the 11th pick. In these athleticism tests, Eric Maynor measures out even better, but as I just pointed out the measurements aren't conclusive.

I will say that Draft Express projects the best case on Eric Maynor to be Sam Cassell which was what they also said about Acie Law. That is scary, but I'm not sure how they come to that conclusion though. The college stats of the players paint very different pictures. Maynor was far superior statistically to Acie Law in college (compare the per 40 numbers). Law made some big shots and was the leader of a Texas A&M team that did very well his senior season gaining him much acclaim. Maynor toiled away in obscurity at VCU and if it wasn't for a game winner against Duke his sophomore year in the tourney he may have not even gotten the invite to the combine to be measured.

While I don't find the athletic comparison of Maynor and Acie fair, I'd also like to point out that I don't think Acie Law has flopped due to lack of athleticism. He's struggled to find an identity being neither a shoot first PG (like he was in college) nor a true creator PG. In spite of his injuries, he's shown athleticism in his driving ability, but he's struggled to consistently create an advantage from it. He was a good college player that was assumed he could be a PG in the pros if he put his mind to it. That's what it looks like he's trying to do instead of just playing his game and that extra thinking is hurting him. He's become tentative neither finishing on his own nor creating assists. With the second unit I often see him running a pick and roll with Zaza which has to be one of the least intimidating sets in the NBA.

Maynor may not be the answer for us, but it isn't because he's a poor athlete. Nor is it because he's the safe pick PG (see Darren Collison) because small school PGs that also do a lot of scoring are rarely seen as the prototypical PG prospect. Maynor's question marks are him being rail-thin and not playing against top competition. But if you look at his pace-adjusted per 40 numbers you see some impressive things like 25.2 pts, 7 assists, and 8.1 FTA. For comparison, Ty Lawson's pace-adjusted, per 40 numbers were 19.5 pts, 7.7 assists, and 7.0 FTA and no one questions his PG status. Acie's senior season produced 21.7 pts, 6 assists, and 6.5 FTAs in that measurement which shows less penetration and creation for others in his game. Darren Collison's pace-adjusted, per 40s are 18.5 pts, 6.1 assists, and 4.6 FTs which may show why a lot of people project him as a career backup.

You brought up some PGs we passed on. I wouldn't pine for Crittenton because when he's been given PT he's produced at about the same level as Acie. Passing on him was not on Billy Knight's long list of mistakes. I would have accepted passing on Stuckey as the mistake.

Also, I don't think anyone predicted Rajon Rondo's development. I don't have measurements for him as I don't think he was invited to the combine. He was seen as a good defender with strong athleticism and freakishly long arms. His ability to shoot was questioned heavily as was his maturity at the time (rumored to be turning pro because he wasn't getting along with then coach Tubby Smith). The highest I remember him being rumored to go was around #11 in a very weak draft for PGs. When he went 21 he was still the 1st full-time PG off the board (ahead of Marcus Williams) with Roy, Foye, and Douby all being projected as more SGs. He's worked hard to improve his shot and his whole game and I'd love to have him on our team, but I can't fault anyone for not seeing him coming.

BTW, my favorite PG in the draft, Jonny Flynn, didn't have great college stats for a PG, nor did he test out that well in terms of speed and agility (3.23 and 10.86) but what I saw on the court impressed me as he could get into the lane and create opportunities for his teammates. I think Eric Maynor can do that as well with the difference being we might get a shot at Maynor with the 19th pick.

[HoopsGuru25]

I don't think Marcus Williams was a safe pick at all and he wasn't a senior. He had a ton of red flags about his character(including stealing laptops)and showed up to workouts about 20-30 pounds overweight and his body fat percentage was in double digits. Before the combine he was probably considered the best pure point guard in the draft by a pretty wide margin. Just look at his listed weight back then(180)and compare it to his combine weight of 215.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/b ... index.html

[MaceCase]

I don't think it's just Maynor's lack of athleticism that hurts him, it's the fact he's not particularly good at one thing and has a frail body. Aaron Brooks wouldn't have trouble posting this guy up and he doesn't have burst or speed to get around people or the body to absorb contact. I see him having tremendous trouble scoring at the next level.

[Harry10]

Also, I don't think anyone predicted Rajon Rondo's development. I don't have measurements for him as I don't think he was invited to the combine. He was seen as a good defender with strong athleticism and freakishly long arms. His ability to shoot was questioned heavily as was his maturity at the time (rumored to be turning pro because he wasn't getting along with then coach Tubby Smith). The highest I remember him being rumored to go was around #11 in a very weak draft for PGs. When he went 21 he was still the 1st full-time PG off the board (ahead of Marcus Williams) with Roy, Foye, and Douby all being projected as more SGs. He's worked hard to improve his shot and his whole game and I'd love to have him on our team, but I can't fault anyone for not seeing him coming.

i don't know about others, but Rondo was high on my list. after LMA was gone, i wanted Roy > Rondo > Marcus > Gay (i never liked Foye, he looked slow in college and Jay Bilas loved him so based on the fact that he is always wrong, i elected not to support Randy).

I think like alot of others in GA, i saw alot of Rondo play SEC basketball. i loved the guy, he was raw and alot of flaws, but was super quick and looked like a 6'3 Scotty Pippen (both in frame and hussel)

it was a really weak PG draft that year and Marcus was the elder guy in the group, and i remember alot of mocks before the "Sheldon promise" had Marcus going to the Hawks at #5. Marcus is not that great, but i do think he is better than what most people think he is, if the Nets never got Harris, Marcus would still be NJ's starting PG.

Lawson, Mills have height issues. Teauge is considered to be a tweener. and Collison has a questionable jump shot..... Lawson, Mills, and Collison all look lighting fast on game film, and Teague can throw down some monster dunks.

...... i think at 6'3 with no major strenghts and weaknesses, and is a senior, Maynor does look like the safe pick of the bunch

[evildallas]

^^^^ I wish you had been GM instead of Knight. I whiffed on Rondo as did all the major media. All I got right was not wanting Shelden (I watch a lot of ACC ball).

I disagree with your take on Marcus Williams though. He's lacked the drive to make himself into a starter as was evident when Demarcus Nelson beat him out for the starting job with the Warriors at the start of the season. A pro athlete has to keep himself in shape and Marcus wouldn't do it. If he had stayed in New Jersey even without Harris someone else would have beaten him out by now.