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Let's say we resign Bibby (which I don't really have a problem with) and let Crawford start @ SG, moving Joe to the SF, Marvin goes to the bench, right? So if we can get Flip and Zaza to resign pretty reasonablly, I think we become better. Marvin and Flip would be two go-to options with green lights in the 2nd unit along with Mo Evans' hustle and spot up 3s as well. I think we still need a very solid, defensive big to round out the squad. A big that is capable of starting but would backup both Josh and Al just like Zaza. Would that be enough for us to compete strongly against CLE and ORL?

If the Hawks have Joe, Bibby, and Crawford all signed to big deals then it means Marvin is gone.

I don't agree with that KB.

Last season, Joe+Bibby+Marvin+Claxton+Law were making
14,983,603
14,232,566
05,757,818
05,636,142
02,071,680
total: 42,681,809

now we have Joe, and Crawford at 14,976,754 and 9,360,000
total: 24336754

it leaves 18,345,055 to sign both Bibby and Marvin, well enough.
If we can sign both for 8M flat contract or starting at, we still have nearly 2.5M to cover the increase of Zaza.

I think Crawford will take Murray's role, so Murray will give 1.5M more.
Actually, if Zaza was re-signed for the same money or not much more, and Bibby and Marvin keep for good contract, we can let Murray walk, and use the MLE to a big.

Not saying it will happen, and we could have better to trade someone, but we can keep Bibby and Marvin.

D21- If the team has ONLY Joe, Bibby, Crawford, Horford and Smith, that is 47 million dollars right there committed before anyone else is signed. I just don't see the Hawks bringing an 8 million dollar player off of the bench under any circumstances. But put Marvin on there at 8 million as well and you are already at 55. THen you want Zaza, Evans, a backup PG, and filling out the roster without going into the luxury tax? I don't think there is any chance at all of it happening.

Whats sort of interesting is that this is the kind of deal that would make far more sense if it were a precursor to a Joe Johnson trade.

I understand it's hard to see an 8M guy coming from the bench, but it's not like it would be for a long term solution.

If we keep Marvin at 8M, we can then either play like that for 2 years max (Crawford expiring), even try to trade Crawford if doesn't work, or maybe Joe will be traded like you said.
5 years with a 8M bench guy is hard.
2 years is not death IMO.

A bench guy with a big salary seems to always be a problem, but I am not seeing like that when this guy is playing a big role and if you have not many player in your starting lineup making max contract.

With Joe at nearly 15M this coming season, the next higher salary would be Crawford at 9.3M. It's not like if we have two, or three max or near max contract.

Now I agree on one point: can Marvin have a big role coming from bench, and with Woodson coaching the team ?

I mean you are talking about
Joe 15
Josh 11
Crawford 9.3
Bibby 8
Marvin 8
Horford 4.3
Evans 2.5
#19 1.1

Thats 59 million right there before Zaza. Thats filling your third bigman, 4th bigman, backup PG, and miscellaneous oother parts for a total of 5 million dollars. (though one can HOPEFULLY be taken care of in the draft- no projects for the Hawks evidently) I simply don't think its an option considering if the team is planning to keep Joe Johnson he will be getting a big raise in the SUmmer of 2010.

The Hawks aren't going to let Marvin go for free, and without Claxton you can no longer skirt the BYC issues.

This trade signals that Marvin will likely be back (perhaps for the QO?). Bibby? Not so much.

I did forget that Smith salary was higher, but if we have 59M, why filling with only 5M ?
We can re-sign Zaza at 5M, being at 64, and still have 5M for the other part.

The tax won't be lower than 69-70M$.

The point I don't understand is the problem with a 8M coming from the bench, when you have a gy at 4.3M in your starting lineup.

It's the same thing than when some people here said having a problem with a guy like Brad Miller or Kaman coming from the bench at 10M or more, while you just have to put Horford instead, an there's no more problem. For me, it a virtual problem, with people looking only at the saary coming coming from the bench, and not an overall view.

But, I still insist on the fact I don't think it's the best option for ATL.

Meanwhile, talking about the extension of Joe, I also base my POV on the fact that I would never (or nearly never ) pay Joe more than 15M.

If he doesn't understand that staying at 15M can help bring some player like with this trade, and that if he asks for more, it only shows he wants money more than be in a contender where he's the leader (and 15M being already lots of money each year) and doesn't help to build a team that can target the next level, then trade him.

Or trade two or three guys between 5 and 10M for one at 15M, and build around with players at lower salaries.
Fact is if we want to trade for a guy like that, it will be hard since Zaza, Bibby and Marvin would have to go with sign and trade.

There's a lot of summer left for a team with more free agents than signed players. The one thing we know is that Jamal Crawford will eat about 1.8M more from the entire salary pie than Speedy and Acie, but as he'll actually play that's understandable. This didn't greatly change the money picture this summer. Things were already tight to resign everyone and stay under the luxury tax.

What I think people may be off-base on is the dollar values that players will get offered. Marvin's QO is 7.355 and if he's here next year that is the likely salary whether he signs longer term for security (unlikely) or just 1 year (which is more likely). He's had health concerns and has not proven enough to be a prudent long term investment at a dollar level that is enough for him to ink long term. Will Zaza get a raise? Or in the changed economy is the same salary effectively a raise because it doesn't mean a cut? And will Bibby be offered $8M or will they play hard ball and only go $7M? I expect the front office to play harder ball than I've previously imagined.

d21- Because of the luxury tax moving forward I would be very surprised to see the Hawks cross the 65 million dollar salary barrier this season. The cap and tax are due to drop in 2011 and I do not think the hawks will put themselves in position where they may have to pay the tax in order to bring back Joe Johnson. I suppose if Marvin takes the QO and they are resigned to losing him in the 2010 offseason then maybe that would change things. But I cannot imagine under any circumstances that the Hawks will move foward with more than 65 million dollars projected salary in 2011. This team will absolutely not pay the tax.

If you wouldn't pay Joe Johnson more than 15 million then you should look to trade him this offseason because he is going to get more. And as I said- this trade would make FAR more sense if the Hawks were looking to trade Joe Johnson.

The Hawks with JJ/JCraw/MW/Al/Smoove/Mo/Morris/#19 comes to a little under $52M.

If they are willing to go to about $65M, theere are endless possibilities to add without subtracting.

Let's say they draft Hansbrough and X-mas and give Zaza $5M and sign a nice PG for about $6M.

We would still have $2 or $3M to use to complete the roster. Give Flip (or someone like him) most of that and sign a couple of minimum players.

That gives us a roster of:

Al / Zaza / Morris
Smoove / Hansbrough / Hunter
MW / Mo
JJ / Flip / X-mas / Gardner
Crawford / PG @$6M

I think a roster like that puts us in very good shape. Of course, I'd love to get rid of the other useless player on the roster; Morris. Adding a serviceable C in his place. Hunter and Gardner are just examples of minimum salary extras.

^^^You can't add Flip and a PG at the MLE.

Flip's money comes FROM the MLE.

Having a faster lineup is certainly something a coach would like to have as an option. It could possibly benefit us for short periods of time. Problem is, Marvelous is our best defender at SF, Joe our best defender at SG and Bibby stinks anywhere he happens to be placed to defend. We couldn't run Bibby/Crawford/Joe for long periods.

having a starting line up of bibby, crawford, and JJ would probably put the hawks in line to be one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

i expect bibby to be gone and the hawks to draft a pg. i guess we will know tonight about bibby's status
based on who they draft

johnny878 wrote:having a starting line up of bibby, crawford, and JJ would probably put the hawks in line to be one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

i expect bibby to be gone and the hawks to draft a pg. i guess we will know tonight about bibby's status
based on who they draft

Agreed.