Garret Siler vs. Courtney Sims
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:36 pm
So, apparently both of these 2 developmental C prospects have accepted an invitation by us to attend our training camp as NRI's. Logic (and numbers) would indicate that we'll prolly carry 1 of these 2. I realize that many here would take Siler sight unseen, but I figured I wanted a more in-depth conversation about the merits of these 2. After a few hours and some nifty google searching, here are my thoughts about the 2:
Garret Siler
No one can argue that Siler can score. In both college and his stint with MIN's summer league team, Siler was able to get to the basket and put the ball into the bucket - mostly on dunks. His shooting %'s in both stops bear this out. Siler's greatest attribute - size @ 7' 300+ - allows him to pound his way to the basket in the 1/2 court game, but this attribute is negated by a lack of athleticism around the basket which effects both his rebounding and his defense. His college numbers bear this out - 7.7 rpg against D-II competition. To put this in perspective, Siler average less than 8 boards in 27 minutes each game against competition where the '07-'08 POY was a 6'8" C (I don't know who the '08-'09 POY was). I would venture a guess and say that the AAU circuit in ATL would prolly provide better competition. To Siler's credit, some of the scouting reports from his Summer League experience with MIN indicate that he has lost some weight and that has helped him with his athleticism. His #'s in the Summer League seem to bear this out as well. He retained his college rebounding rate (6 per 22 minutes in Summer League) while the caliber of competition increased greatly. One still has to wonder though about the 5 PFs in the same minutes and think that some of his gains might have been smaller than the rebounding numbers bear out. He did have 1.6 blocks though, so he wasn't completely useless on the defensive end.
So, basically, Siler's ? are the 2 things that someone of his size HAS to bring to an NBA team (Rebounding / Defense), but he has shown some improvement in these areas since getting pro attention and coaching. He has gradually stepped up his play as his competition got better - from D-II college ball to the Portsmouth Invitational to the Summer League. He did well in the Summer League, but he was far from dominating - which is a step up from the NBDL. With all this though, I still get the feeling that his upside would be a poor man's Eddy Curry (as much **** as Curry gets, he was a 20/7 performer his only season that he got 30+ minutes).
Courtney Sims
Sims, on the other hand, had a mediocre college career with Michigan, but seems to have caught fire in the NBDL - winning the MVP last year with an eye popping line of 23 points / 11 boards / 2 swats in 39 minutes per game. His peripherals look nice as well (60% FG, 75% FT, 1.5 assists, 3 PFs) considering his position. Physically, he could hold down the C position @ 6'11" and 250 lbs, even though he could use some bulk (from his pics, he isn't frail, but he's far from ripped). His scouting reports indicate that he develop some low post moves over the last 2 years (a hook shot and a turnaround specifically) which has helped with minutes and, in turn, confidence. Even so, one has to wonder why Sims was only able to get into 2 games in the NBA last year (1 min with PHO; 11 min with NYK in a blowout loss in the 2nd to last game of the season) after such a dominating performance in the D-League. Two knocks that I found are running and strength which could be a big reason for this (if you're not strong enough to hold up in the post, then you should be able to run the court...).
Honestly, I can't find too much on Sims (Siler seems to be the most talked about UDFA in the history of the NBA... with the possible exception of Randolph Morris, but that was for other reasons). Being the MVP of the NBDL is an impressive feat though, and honestly, I'd take 1/2 of those stats he put up and feel very good about his acquisition. I get the feeling that he could be a nice backup C for someone if he gains another 10-15 lbs. Someone who could come in and hold down the fort inside for at least 10-15 minutes per while not embarrassing himself.
At this point, I'd go with Sims. Sure, both have ?s and Siler has shown more at a higher level of competition, but Sims has shown the most for his level of competition. Sims has shown dominance in all aspects of being a C in the NBDL while Siler has shown the ability to bang away in the Summer League. I also think the ?s that Sims has to answer are smaller than what Siler has to answer - for Sims, he has to gain a little weight and prove that his game can translate to the NBA; for Siler, he has to lose a little weight and prove that he can add a couple of elements that have been missing from his game in lower levels to his game at the highest level of competition. There isn't too much disparity in age either: just about 3 years to the day (Siler will be 23 on 10/25, Sims will be 26 on 10/21).
Thoughts?
Garret Siler
No one can argue that Siler can score. In both college and his stint with MIN's summer league team, Siler was able to get to the basket and put the ball into the bucket - mostly on dunks. His shooting %'s in both stops bear this out. Siler's greatest attribute - size @ 7' 300+ - allows him to pound his way to the basket in the 1/2 court game, but this attribute is negated by a lack of athleticism around the basket which effects both his rebounding and his defense. His college numbers bear this out - 7.7 rpg against D-II competition. To put this in perspective, Siler average less than 8 boards in 27 minutes each game against competition where the '07-'08 POY was a 6'8" C (I don't know who the '08-'09 POY was). I would venture a guess and say that the AAU circuit in ATL would prolly provide better competition. To Siler's credit, some of the scouting reports from his Summer League experience with MIN indicate that he has lost some weight and that has helped him with his athleticism. His #'s in the Summer League seem to bear this out as well. He retained his college rebounding rate (6 per 22 minutes in Summer League) while the caliber of competition increased greatly. One still has to wonder though about the 5 PFs in the same minutes and think that some of his gains might have been smaller than the rebounding numbers bear out. He did have 1.6 blocks though, so he wasn't completely useless on the defensive end.
So, basically, Siler's ? are the 2 things that someone of his size HAS to bring to an NBA team (Rebounding / Defense), but he has shown some improvement in these areas since getting pro attention and coaching. He has gradually stepped up his play as his competition got better - from D-II college ball to the Portsmouth Invitational to the Summer League. He did well in the Summer League, but he was far from dominating - which is a step up from the NBDL. With all this though, I still get the feeling that his upside would be a poor man's Eddy Curry (as much **** as Curry gets, he was a 20/7 performer his only season that he got 30+ minutes).
Courtney Sims
Sims, on the other hand, had a mediocre college career with Michigan, but seems to have caught fire in the NBDL - winning the MVP last year with an eye popping line of 23 points / 11 boards / 2 swats in 39 minutes per game. His peripherals look nice as well (60% FG, 75% FT, 1.5 assists, 3 PFs) considering his position. Physically, he could hold down the C position @ 6'11" and 250 lbs, even though he could use some bulk (from his pics, he isn't frail, but he's far from ripped). His scouting reports indicate that he develop some low post moves over the last 2 years (a hook shot and a turnaround specifically) which has helped with minutes and, in turn, confidence. Even so, one has to wonder why Sims was only able to get into 2 games in the NBA last year (1 min with PHO; 11 min with NYK in a blowout loss in the 2nd to last game of the season) after such a dominating performance in the D-League. Two knocks that I found are running and strength which could be a big reason for this (if you're not strong enough to hold up in the post, then you should be able to run the court...).
Honestly, I can't find too much on Sims (Siler seems to be the most talked about UDFA in the history of the NBA... with the possible exception of Randolph Morris, but that was for other reasons). Being the MVP of the NBDL is an impressive feat though, and honestly, I'd take 1/2 of those stats he put up and feel very good about his acquisition. I get the feeling that he could be a nice backup C for someone if he gains another 10-15 lbs. Someone who could come in and hold down the fort inside for at least 10-15 minutes per while not embarrassing himself.
At this point, I'd go with Sims. Sure, both have ?s and Siler has shown more at a higher level of competition, but Sims has shown the most for his level of competition. Sims has shown dominance in all aspects of being a C in the NBDL while Siler has shown the ability to bang away in the Summer League. I also think the ?s that Sims has to answer are smaller than what Siler has to answer - for Sims, he has to gain a little weight and prove that his game can translate to the NBA; for Siler, he has to lose a little weight and prove that he can add a couple of elements that have been missing from his game in lower levels to his game at the highest level of competition. There isn't too much disparity in age either: just about 3 years to the day (Siler will be 23 on 10/25, Sims will be 26 on 10/21).
Thoughts?
