2025 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2 – Capture the Flagg

[redslastlaugh]

composite big board sourced from 31 public mock drafts on twitter

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[phincsfan]

What about Thomas Sorber? You seem quite a bit lower on him than consensus. do you have injury concerns given he's a big guy who had, whatever it was, a fracture in his foot?, or are you down on his ability to guard the perimeter or make outside shots? He seems at his age and feel, like he should be 10-20 range, to me anyway.

From the limited reports I've seen it's turf toe. Not a bad injury because it's a full recovery. If it was a fracture in his foot than I'd be hesitant because foot injuries (fractures) and athletes are the worst combo. Usually always has lingering effects.

IMO the most famous turf toe injury was Deion Sanders. He missed the end of that season but wound up playing a couple more seasons with no issues. I said it was the most famous because he had two toes amputated recently apparently because of that surgery and it's lingering effects 20 years later.

I would be ecstatic if Sorber was on the board at #28 and would be ok if they made a trade up for him.

[phincsfan]

I like that section. Have just been starting to look at Martin. Insanely in depth PDF.

Dumb to pick at typos, but this cracked me up on Fleming: "Massive human. He's 6 feet 25 without shoes"

This is a pretty good verbiage to describe what I've been trying to say. Basically the combination of size, movement and versatility is the key in the game today.

As I’ve covered the draft and NBA as a whole, I’ve also started to adjust what I look for in players and the kinds of players who tend to be valuable to me as an evaluator. For instance, this year, you will not find a single player in my lottery who is under 6-foot-4 without shoes, with V.J. Edgecombe ending up as the smallest. In today’s NBA, it’s just exceptionally difficult to be small while providing value. Essentially, smaller lead creators need to either hit All-Star status or risk turning into bench players, as many of them are defensive liabilities. What I value is finding players who can dribble, pass, shoot and defend, all while doing so with positional size. Those are the guys in the modern NBA who have value. Can you achieve the responsibilities of your role on defense? Can you hit shots and force defenses to stay in rotation when you play off the ball? Can you create your own shot and threaten defenses? And can you process the game at a high enough level to make quick decisions, space the court off the ball and make high-level passing reads when you have the ball? Precious few players are going to achieve all of these tasks. But finding those skills is the baseline goal.

For me, i've decided this skill needs to get even more specific. Jrue, DWhite, JB, and JT all can obviously create their own shot. But when they really try to challenge a defense off the dribble, it just gets messy really fast.

We need some players IMO who are really hard to contain with the ball in their hands. So ball handling has become my target. I would love to have someone who is upper echelon. I've been watching Ryan Nembhard on the advice of some here. He definitely can get by defenders with ease but his size is concerning.

Walter Clayton is my binkie at the moment. I wouldn't say he's an elite ball handler but he's close, and I think on the right team he is going to be a real problem for opposing defenses. Jalen Brunson-esque.

I'd be shocked and happy at the same time if Asa Newell was still on the board at #28.

[redslastlaugh]

If we do move off some vets, whoever that may be, and add some draft capital, I would LUV a draft like Danny Ainge had in 2004.
Ainge took Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, & Justin Reed
Four swings and the three first round guys played 2800 minutes that season.

If we lose say 3 of White, Holiday, Porzingis, Hauser & Brown this will open up a lot of minutes. Tatum, obviously, will be out.
Draft some upside rookies. And then throw the rookies out there and play them. Then, this time next year, hopefully, we have young guys who've showed some stuff and we can grow with them or ultimately trade them for an established star.

Finding Al Jefferson in that '04 draft and featuring him for 3 otherwise sideways seasons was fundamentally why we were able to acquire Kevin Garnett when KG became available.

[winsomme2]

Did I see in the trade thread that there are some rumors about Brad looking to trade up and targeting a PG?

Leaving aside the logistics of whether that’s possible or not, it tells me that Brad is really taking a look at our style of play and maybe wanting to take less threes by making our driving game better.

Jeremiah Fears maybe? He’s fun to watch for sure.

[Bill Lumbergh]

If we do move off some vets, whoever that may be, and add some draft capital, I would LUV a draft like Danny Ainge had in 2004.
Ainge took Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, & Justin Reed
Four swings and the three first round guys played 2800 minutes that season.

If we lose say 3 of White, Holiday, Porzingis, Hauser & Brown this will open up a lot of minutes. Tatum, obviously, will be out.
Draft some upside rookies. And then throw the rookies out there and play them. Then, this time next year, hopefully, we have young guys who've showed some stuff and we can grow with them or ultimately trade them for an established star.

Finding Al Jefferson in that '04 draft and featuring him for 3 otherwise sideways seasons was fundamentally why we were able to acquire Kevin Garnett when KG became available.

He really did nail that draft. To this day, if somebody mentions Big Al, I'm still thinking Jefferson and not Horford.

[Hal14]

Did I see in the trade thread that there are some rumors about Brad looking to trade up and targeting a PG?

Leaving aside the logistics of whether that’s possible or not, it tells me that Brad is really taking a look at our style of play and maybe wanting to take less threes by making our driving game better.

Jeremiah Fears maybe? He’s fun to watch for sure.

I hope not Fears.

Think he's got a chance to be a really good player in the league but think we're not a good fit for him here:

1) He's a poor 3 pt shooter and we shoot lots of 3's

2) we're likely trading Jrue, so any guard we get will hopefully be a decent defender..Fears is a poor defender

3) Fears is ball dominant, very high usage guy..really can't play off the ball..needs the ball in his hands..so not a good fit on a team where Tatum (and JB if h's still here) is gonna have the ball in his hands a lot.

Fears should go to a young, rebuilding team that needs a PG..where he can get lots of playing time, learn through his mistakes, etc. like Washington, Brooklyn or New Orleans..maybe Utah or Toronto..

[Curmudgeon]

Also fears in not 6-4. He's a little over 6-2.

[winsomme2]

Did I see in the trade thread that there are some rumors about Brad looking to trade up and targeting a PG?

Leaving aside the logistics of whether that’s possible or not, it tells me that Brad is really taking a look at our style of play and maybe wanting to take less threes by making our driving game better.

Jeremiah Fears maybe? He’s fun to watch for sure.

I hope not Fears.

Think he's got a chance to be a really good player in the league but think we're not a good fit for him here:

1) He's a poor 3 pt shooter and we shoot lots of 3's

2) we're likely trading Jrue, so any guard we get will hopefully be a decent defender..Fears is a poor defender

3) Fears is ball dominant, very high usage guy..really can't play off the ball..needs the ball in his hands..so not a good fit on a team where Tatum (and JB if h's still here) is gonna have the ball in his hands a lot.

Fears should go to a young, rebuilding team that needs a PG..where he can get lots of playing time, learn through his mistakes, etc. like Washington, Brooklyn or New Orleans..maybe Utah or Toronto..

I wonder if Brad looking at adjusting how we play.

Watching the Finals, having guards who can initiate offense makes you much more difficult to defend and part of our problem has been that we were getting too predictable. If our threes weren’t falling, we had to work way too hard to score. Every possession was a grind.

Having more people who can break down the D might be an off season goal.

I hear what you’re saying about Fears but he’s hard to contain.

Maybe Clayton? He is better at playing both on and off the ball. Still on the smaller side.

There aren't many highly rated PG prospects. I wonder who else he could be targeting.

[winsomme2]

Is Will Riley's draft stock changing?

I haven't watched much of his clips but it seems like I'm seeing him lower in mock drafts recently. Has anybody seen anything about him?

[Larry_Russell]

Did I see in the trade thread that there are some rumors about Brad looking to trade up and targeting a PG?

Leaving aside the logistics of whether that’s possible or not, it tells me that Brad is really taking a look at our style of play and maybe wanting to take less threes by making our driving game better.

Jeremiah Fears maybe? He’s fun to watch for sure.

I hope not Fears.

Think he's got a chance to be a really good player in the league but think we're not a good fit for him here:

1) He's a poor 3 pt shooter and we shoot lots of 3's

2) we're likely trading Jrue, so any guard we get will hopefully be a decent defender..Fears is a poor defender

3) Fears is ball dominant, very high usage guy..really can't play off the ball..needs the ball in his hands..so not a good fit on a team where Tatum (and JB if h's still here) is gonna have the ball in his hands a lot.

Fears should go to a young, rebuilding team that needs a PG..where he can get lots of playing time, learn through his mistakes, etc. like Washington, Brooklyn or New Orleans..maybe Utah or Toronto..

I wonder if Brad looking at adjusting how we play.

Watching the Finals, having guards who can initiate offense makes you much more difficult to defend and part of our problem has been that we were getting too predictable. If our threes weren’t falling, we had to work way too hard to score. Every possession was a grind.

Having more people who can break down the D might be an off season goal.

I hear what you’re saying about Fears but he’s hard to contain.

Maybe Clayton? He is better at playing both on and off the ball. Still on the smaller side.

There aren't many highly rated PG prospects. I wonder who else he could be targeting.

There is a number of things that has to happen this being one of them.

1: Have to have a more dynamic offense than just jacking 3 pointers
2: Have to have someone to take some playmaking responsibility from Tatum and let JT be a secondary creator and not the primary creator
3: Have someone to rebound the **** ball so that Tatum doesnt have to be the primary rebounder
4: Let JT be the alpha scorer


This will do 2 things.

Number 1 it will allow Tatum to do more offensively beside jacks three pointers (when he is responsible for playmaking and rebounding and scoring he is going to get tired and settle offensively)

Number 2 it will make the offense fare more dynamic. right now its is 100% just defend the 3 pointers and wait for them to stop falling. Having a guy who can initiate a 1/2 court offense, someone who can attack the rim, a roll man makes the offense far less predictable and opens up more looks, opportunity.

[Hal14]

If we trade up in the draft for a PG, a potential option:

Watch on YouTube

;t=1160s

Read on Twitter

[Celts17Pride]

If we trade up in the draft for a PG, a potential option:

Watch on YouTube

;t=1160s

Read on Twitter

I would be shocked if this is the Celtics target. Very young and can't shoot

[Celts17Pride]

I still believe that Jase Richardson is the Celtics target. Can play the point, can play off the ball. Tatum, Brown and White handle the ball a ton so the Celtics don't need and probably don't want a ball dominate point guard. Richardson is an excellent three point shooter, finisher at the rim and mid range scorer. Richardson fits the mode for the Celtics like White, Holiday and Pritchard. Richardson's biggest negative is his size. No one knows who the Celtics are targeting, certainly not me. My guess is still Richardson, mainly because he plays like a player the Celtics tend to look at.

[Larry_Russell]

jase sucks.

If that is who the Celtics draft they are not a serious franchise looking to win more titles.

6 foot tall shooting guards are a waste of a pick in the modern NBA.

[165bows]

I still believe that Jase Richardson is the Celtics target. Can play the point, can play off the ball. Tatum, Brown and White handle the ball a ton so the Celtics don't need and probably don't want a ball dominate point guard. Richardson is an excellent three point shooter, finisher at the rim and mid range scorer. Richardson fits the mode for the Celtics like White, Holiday and Pritchard. Richardson's biggest negative is his size. No one knows who the Celtics are targeting, certainly not me. My guess is still Richardson, mainly because he plays like a player the Celtics tend to look at.

I think the three guards they would target are Tre Johnson, Jase Richardson and Walter Clayton.

Obvious size issues with the last two and real obtain-ability issues in the mix as well.

Jase imo has a low floor due to his size but I agree I don't think they are afraid to transition a guy to PG from a combo guard role. See Derrick White, Nik Stauskas who they had run their G-league PG spot, same with Drew Peterson etc. Otoh though I could Jase being a poor man's Kyrie Irving without the drama.

Clayton seems like the best mix of experience, obtain-ability and size but I think all three are appealing for how this team plays.

[165bows]

Here's a hot take I think the #2 pick might not have that much increased value over the rest of the adjacent field.

Suspicious that Harper may be a soft guy that can score but won't be efficient, maybe a smoother less athletic Shaeden Sharpe kind of guy. If he's really an elite prospect just move Castle that's a no-brainer.

[Hal14]

If we trade up in the draft for a PG, a potential option:

Watch on YouTube

;t=1160s

Read on Twitter

I would be shocked if this is the Celtics target. Very young and can't shoot

I wouldn't say he can't shoot. 40% from 3 over his las 21 games. Showing good progression as a shooter, considering he's only 19.

And yeah he's young but that's the case for most of the guys who go in the top 15-20 or so picks. Those guys typically have higher upside.

No other player in this draft class was this good at such a young age in a pro league that is this competitive. The last 18 yr old to make the jump he did from 3rd division to LNB in France was Tony Parker.

The big thing with Traore is he's a pure PG..a floor general, facilitator type. Has an assist % of 42 which is an insanely high number, especially for a kid who was only 18 this season. That could be something that appeals to Brad. A true PG who can run the show, distribute the basketball, get the ball to the Jays in a position for them to score, throw lobs, etc.

Traore also has good burst to collapse a defense and get to his spots..so he can collapse a defense and either score in the paint, score at the rim or pass to the open man..

[Hal14]

I still believe that Jase Richardson is the Celtics target. Can play the point, can play off the ball. Tatum, Brown and White handle the ball a ton so the Celtics don't need and probably don't want a ball dominate point guard. Richardson is an excellent three point shooter, finisher at the rim and mid range scorer. Richardson fits the mode for the Celtics like White, Holiday and Pritchard. Richardson's biggest negative is his size. No one knows who the Celtics are targeting, certainly not me. My guess is still Richardson, mainly because he plays like a player the Celtics tend to look at.

Jase is not in the same stratosphere as White or Jrue on the defensive end. He's also way smaller than those guys.

He has played very little PG, between this season at MSU and last season in HS. Yeah, the Jays and White bring the ball up a lot. But maybe our coaches/front office want to pivot away from that a bit. Maybe they want to have a true PG who can facilitate, orchestrate the offense and distribute the basketball to our scorers, rather than our scorers having to bring the ball up, get us into sets AND score. Plus, Tatum is out all next season so there's more of a need for a guy who can be a true PG..especially with Jrue likely getting traded. JB coming off knee surgery, maybe you want to lessen his workload a bit and just have him play off the ball more.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of how well Jase' shot will translate to the NBA, since he is so small, but also because he has a low release point on his jumper and sometimes takes awhile to load up on the jumper and get the shot up..against NBA defenders, that might not fly so well. Also, in the last 46 games Cerebro Sports has data for before college, he shot just 27% from 3. In other words, he wasn't that good of a shooter in HS..so we really only have 1 season (this year at MSU) where he was a good shooter which isn't a very extensive track record and he shot 3's on somewhat low volume this season in a low usage role..much different than someone like Pritchard who was a good shooter for 4 years in college, on crazy high volume and in a very high usage role..

[Curmudgeon]

Jase is not in the same stratosphere as White or Jrue on the defensive end. He's also way smaller than those guys.

He could be a dominant center in Lilliput.

Once again, is any point guard in this draft significantly better than Davison?