Welcome to Boston (and Maine), Amari Williams!

[Shak_Celts]

10/13/11 triple double
He has supplanted yam madar as celtics playmaker of the future

There should be some sort of unwritten or even written rule.. If you get a triple-double in the g league, you automatically go up to the big boys for a while..

And as I stated already in the other thread, why not play Amari behind Queta until we can find out how good he is. Or until we find a proven center to trade for.

It seems the team is bringing Magic Amari along gradually, with no rush to move him into regular minutes with the big club. I'm OK ith that. There may be a trade coming in a few months if Simons is moved for a big, so Amari's development is important in Maine. If no trade happens, I could see him being brought in more.

He could play backup, but not likely to play alongside Queta. My fantasy, if no reasonable Zubac trade materializes, is to wait and see how Memphis does before the deadline and try to pull Santi Aldama. He'd be the stretch 4/5 that could play along with multiple bigs and give Joe another look with a bigger lineup. His game also complimentary with Williams. Getting Santi probably needs a third team and multiple players involved due to restrictions, so it's unlikely to happen, but I'd be happy with a big rotation of Queta/Aldama/Tillman with Amari added to the mix.

Amari's passing is so good. Well, it's easy for him in Maine as he's just a very large human compared to most G-Leaguers but I think it will translate to NBA eventually. The guy is already very mature and level-headed. If he stays within himself and role, I can see more visits to Boston over the season.

And he clearly loves getting others involved. Seems quite authentic in that regard. Maybe it's his British reserve, but so gracious after a triple double. I'm falling for this dude!

Watch on YouTube

Don’t take it easy on him, we want growth, if you don’t like something he’s doing, speak up! It’s good for discourse. Welcome to the club!


Amari has what it takes to eventually be SOMETHING, I hope it’s with the Celtics. My binky of binkies, has no choice but to come through for me.

I actually like him in Maine, he needs to grow a lot. I do want Celtics minutes too, however, I don’t want him just sitting on the bench when he could be getting good reps! It seems like Maine has truly helped our guys get better. Keep doing the work, Celtics PT will shake loose when it’s the right time.

[cl2117]

How many 5s played point center for their high-level college team? Got a g-league triple-dub a month into their first season? Amari's got several elite skills, including his feel for the game, as a big man. Of course, he's not maxed them out or proven them at that level at this point. But he's very promising for what he can do.

Derik Queen just did that at the NBA level. That's what I would consider elite.

Lachlan Olbrich, who was drafted 9 spots behind Amari, put up 26/11/10 in the G league not 2 weeks ago. He's averaging 18/9/6. I don't think he's as good nor has as much potential as Amari but I think it goes to show that it's not always the best barometer for NBA ready-ness.

My point isn't that Amari doesn't have chops, it's that even the skills that show elite promise are still incredibly raw. Coaches don't want to have to funnel their offense through their rookie 2nd round pick to make things work when he's out there and Amari offers very little outside of his facilitating right now. That's going to limit his minutes on the big club when Joe is clearly trying to win every night.

If he can round out his game a bit as a credible lob threat for a two-man game or better rim finisher he becomes a bit easier to leave out there a few extra possessions. That in turn gives him a bit of a longer leash where he can showcase his passing ability and even make some mistakes without getting the quick hook because his utility isn't entirely tied to him orchestrating the offense (which again is just an objectively very hard thing to do, especially for a rookie).

I want him to play. But in the same way Joe isn't forcefeeding minutes to Baylor and Hugo, I don't think Amari is going to just get given minutes. Figuring out how to be more useful offensively off ball and as a screener is a big way he can convince Joe to give him more minutes.

[itrsteve]

I'm becoming a strong believer in the 2-way system we have going on in Maine and the development staff involved. After seeing what we've got out of Queta and Walsh thus far, I'm okay with being patient with Williams to let him grow and thrive in a low-pressure environment with small glimpses of the big lights and energy at the TD Garden.

Still very high on this guy but it's still too early.

[playa-hater]

How many 5s played point center for their high-level college team? Got a g-league triple-dub a month into their first season? Amari's got several elite skills, including his feel for the game, as a big man. Of course, he's not maxed them out or proven them at that level at this point. But he's very promising for what he can do.

Derik Queen just did that at the NBA level. That's what I would consider elite.

Lachlan Olbrich, who was drafted 9 spots behind Amari, put up 26/11/10 in the G league not 2 weeks ago. He's averaging 18/9/6. I don't think he's as good nor has as much potential as Amari but I think it goes to show that it's not always the best barometer for NBA ready-ness.

My point isn't that Amari doesn't have chops, it's that even the skills that show elite promise are still incredibly raw. Coaches don't want to have to funnel their offense through their rookie 2nd round pick to make things work when he's out there and Amari offers very little outside of his facilitating right now. That's going to limit his minutes on the big club when Joe is clearly trying to win every night.

If he can round out his game a bit as a credible lob threat for a two-man game or better rim finisher he becomes a bit easier to leave out there a few extra possessions. That in turn gives him a bit of a longer leash where he can showcase his passing ability and even make some mistakes without getting the quick hook because his utility isn't entirely tied to him orchestrating the offense (which again is just an objectively very hard thing to do, especially for a rookie).

I want him to play. But in the same way Joe isn't forcefeeding minutes to Baylor and Hugo, I don't think Amari is going to just get given minutes. Figuring out how to be more useful offensively off ball and as a screener is a big way he can convince Joe to give him more minutes.

You made many good points. But my only question with reference to Amari's skill set is, are we sure If Boston just asked Amari to focus on defense, rebounding and being an occasional lob threat, that would help benefit both Amari and Boston? Similar to what Walsh is doing in that Walsh really just focuses on one thing- Defense- and everything else is just dessert. Simplifying a young player's role may be everything at this stage.

[return2glory]

Watch on YouTube

[Hal14]

Derik Queen just did that at the NBA level. That's what I would consider elite.

I think you're taking what I said too literally.

When I said that Amari is borderline elite in terms of passing, facilitating an offense as a center hub and handling the ball, I meant that a) relative to bigs and b) relative to other players prior to getting a significant amount of NBA minutes.

Yes, of course we all know there's a big difference between doing it in college / G league and doing it in the NBA. That goes without saying.

We all know Amari only got real NBA mins in like 1 game so far. But imo, that doesn't mean we can't talk about him and project what he could possibly end up being as an NBA player if given the minutes and with some development in the coming months/years.

That's what you do when scouting players who haven't yet been drafted or got drafted but haven't yet gotten NBA mins. You project them - and make educated guesses about what they may end up doing in the league, based on the information we have so far and based on what they did prior to the NBA and how that compares to other players who came before them and what those players ended up becoming in the league. Scouting 101

Lachlan Olbrich, who was drafted 9 spots behind Amari, put up 26/11/10 in the G league not 2 weeks ago. He's averaging 18/9/6. I don't think he's as good nor has as much potential as Amari but I think it goes to show that it's not always the best barometer for NBA ready-ness

Yes, it's common knowledge that the G league often has inflated offensive stats so you typically have to take g league stats with a grain of salt.

With that being said, I think the folks advocating in this thread for giving Amari a shot know this and they are probably going deeper than just the box score and are basing their opinions on watching him play in the G league and actually seeing the quality of some of his plays and the degree of difficulty of some of them.

Also, there's a few differences between Olbrich and Amari if we look beyond the box score of a singular g league game. Amari is like an inch or 2 taller, he's got several inches longer wingspan and is like 20 lbs heavier too..is much stronger. Therefore Amari has enough size/length/strength to play the 5 in the NBA. Olbrich perhaps does not.

Olbrich size-wise is more of a 4..but could maybe play small ball 5..he's a bit of a tweener..a guy his size, it's better if he can shoot 3's but he can't..or at least he shot very few of them before the NBA.

Also, Amari is a much better defender than Olbrich. Partly because of the size/strength difference but also partly because he's a couple years older and has better technique. Amari shut down Cooper Flagg's attempt to score a game winning basket last season in college. Flagg struggled to score on Amari that game. Olbrich meanwhile offers pretty much no value on defense.

Amari is also a much better rebounder than Olbrich, as evidenced in the film and the stats last season.

Amari started last season and was THE guy on one of the best teams in college basketball..in the best conference in college basketball. Olbrich was on the NBL champs, but he was a bench player who played a lesser role.

My point isn't that Amari doesn't have chops, it's that even the skills that show elite promise are still incredibly raw.

Can you expand on this? What's raw about his ball handling, passing, facilitating skills?

I'd say they are very advanced for a big coming out of college.

Coaches don't want to have to funnel their offense through their rookie 2nd round pick to make things work when he's out there and Amari offers very little outside of his facilitating right now. That's going to limit his minutes on the big club when Joe is clearly trying to win every night.

Why not?

We're averaging about 1.23 PPP right now. If we can be at like 1.2 or higher with Amari out there whipping the ball around to cutters and open shooters, then why not give it a shot?

Not sure why it's relevant that he was a 2nd round pick. Kornet was undrafted and we utilized his passing ability. Jokic was a 2nd round pick..so was Draymond, who the warriors have run their offense through..Hartenstein has acted as a center hub and he was a 2nd round pick..

Amari fell to the 2nd round for other reasons - not because of his passing. His passing is elite so why not utilize it?

I also don't agree that he offers very little outside of facilitating. His ball handling is very good, his driving ability is good..he has some good moves with the ball, good footwork..decent touch (was 69.3% at the rim last season at Kentucky..a very respectable number) while also leading the SEC in TRB%..and is up lover 20 TRB% through 9 g league games this season so clearly the guy can rebound the ball.

His rim protection is decent, switchability is decent. He's a decent enough screener..

Not a great lob catcher but typically bigs aren't good facilitators *and* lob catchers..it's typically one or the other. Like Jokic, Sabonis, Sengun, Olynyk, Ighodaro, Poeltl, Jaylin Williams..good facilitators but not good lob catchers. Capela, Mitchell Robinson, Drummond, Gobert, Biyombo, Ayton..good lob catchers but not good facilitators. Guys like Kornet, and Time Lord who can do both are the exception - not the rule.

[Hal14]

I'm becoming a strong believer in the 2-way system we have going on in Maine and the development staff involved. After seeing what we've got out of Queta and Walsh thus far, I'm okay with being patient with Williams to let him grow and thrive in a low-pressure environment with small glimpses of the big lights and energy at the TD Garden.

Still very high on this guy but it's still too early.

Exactly. Hauser too..and Kornet was in Maine for awhile before cracking the rotation with the big club.

It's a path that has worked well a few times now.

[cl2117]

You made many good points. But my only question with reference to Amari's skill set is, are we sure If Boston just asked Amari to focus on defense, rebounding and being an occasional lob threat, that would help benefit both Amari and Boston? Similar to what Walsh is doing in that Walsh really just focuses on one thing- Defense- and everything else is just dessert. Simplifying a young player's role may be everything at this stage.

I see what you're saying but I have to disagree. I think Walsh is sticking in the rotation because he's finally walking and chewing gum at the same time and contributing all over the place. He may be hanging his hat on defense, but he's knocking down 3's, he's cutting on offense, scoring in transition. And it's taken him two years of only showing flashes before he got to the point where it looks like he's figuring out how to put it together. But he struggled to get regular minutes these last two years because of the holes in his game. He'd have a good stretch on D but then struggle to knock down some open shots or have a mental lapse and he'd be back on the bench.

I think with the holes in Amari's game he's not cracking more than garbage time or emergency depth minutes for Joe. So if he's going to focus on development and sticking to one thing that's fine but it's a better fit for him at the G league level because he'll struggle to get any consistent minutes with Boston. On the other hand if he focuses on rounding out a bit more of his game I think he might be a bit more viable sooner.

The way I think about it if Amari's in there for say 10 offensive possessions, Joe's not going to run 7+ through him. So he's gonna have limited value on about half the sets. He's going to have to be insanely efficient on the chances you do give him to make it worthwhile having him out there. If he can be a better lob threat or inside finisher he becomes and easier piece to use out there and I think it actually alleviates the pressure to be otherworldly as passer/ball handler to substantiate his minutes.

And I know Hal is going to say: why can't you just run 10 straight offensive possessions through Amari and let him work through it? NBA coaches on competitive teams just don't often/ever do that type of thing. I'm all for giving him a chance an pumping opportunities his way, but I think the reality is that he needs to meet Joe's standards and I don't think he's getting above guys like Garza or even Tillman (or Minott for that matter as the small ball C) in the pecking order unless he's bringing more to the table. And I think that's why he's only logged 30 minutes so far this season.

[playa-hater]

You made many good points. But my only question with reference to Amari's skill set is, are we sure If Boston just asked Amari to focus on defense, rebounding and being an occasional lob threat, that would help benefit both Amari and Boston? Similar to what Walsh is doing in that Walsh really just focuses on one thing- Defense- and everything else is just dessert. Simplifying a young player's role may be everything at this stage.

I see what you're saying but I have to disagree. I think Walsh is sticking in the rotation because he's finally walking and chewing gum at the same time and contributing all over the place. He may be hanging his hat on defense, but he's knocking down 3's, he's cutting on offense, scoring in transition. And it's taken him two years of only showing flashes before he got to the point where it looks like he's figuring out how to put it together. But he struggled to get regular minutes these last two years because of the holes in his game. He'd have a good stretch on D but then struggle to knock down some open shots or have a mental lapse and he'd be back on the bench.

I think with the holes in Amari's game he's not cracking more than garbage time or emergency depth minutes for Joe. So if he's going to focus on development and sticking to one thing that's fine but it's a better fit for him at the G league level because he'll struggle to get any consistent minutes with Boston. On the other hand if he focuses on rounding out a bit more of his game I think he might be a bit more viable sooner.

The way I think about it if Amari's in there for say 10 offensive possessions, Joe's not going to run 7+ through him. So he's gonna have limited value on about half the sets. He's going to have to be insanely efficient on the chances you do give him to make it worthwhile having him out there. If he can be a better lob threat or inside finisher he becomes and easier piece to use out there and I think it actually alleviates the pressure to be otherworldly as passer/ball handler to substantiate his minutes.

And I know Hal is going to say: why can't you just run 10 straight offensive possessions through Amari and let him work through it? NBA coaches on competitive teams just don't often/ever do that type of thing. I'm all for giving him a chance an pumping opportunities his way, but I think the reality is that he needs to meet Joe's standards and I don't think he's getting above guys like Garza or even Tillman (or Minott for that matter as the small ball C) in the pecking order unless he's bringing more to the table. And I think that's why he's only logged 30 minutes so far this season.

Well said. I guess from my perspective, I just haven't seen anything good or bad of Amari to have any idea what he can do currently and what he is projected to be able to do. Perhaps this is more my curiosity in wanting to see him play than my belief that he may be able to contribute well early on.

[Hal14]

The way I think about it if Amari's in there for say 10 offensive possessions, Joe's not going to run 7+ through him. So he's gonna have limited value on about half the sets. He's going to have to be insanely efficient on the chances you do give him to make it worthwhile having him out there. If he can be a better lob threat or inside finisher he becomes and easier piece to use out there and I think it actually alleviates the pressure to be otherworldly as passer/ball handler to substantiate his minutes.

And I know Hal is going to say: why can't you just run 10 straight offensive possessions through Amari and let him work through it? NBA coaches on competitive teams just don't often/ever do that type of thing. I'm all for giving him a chance an pumping opportunities his way, but I think the reality is that he needs to meet Joe's standards and I don't think he's getting above guys like Garza or even Tillman (or Minott for that matter as the small ball C) in the pecking order unless he's bringing more to the table. And I think that's why he's only logged 30 minutes so far this season.

I wasn't going to say that lol. Let's not put words in people's mouths

All I would say is that the job of the coach is to use the player's on the roster and play the guys who give him the best chance to win..and at any given time, when he's got 5 guys on the floor, his job is to maximize the skills and ability of those 5 players the best he can to increase our odds of winning.

So if you've got a guy who has this skill/ability that Amari has, then yes - use it, develop it while developing other parts of his game. Coaching 101.

And no, you shouldn't expect miracles right out the gate..you should understand that there might be mistakes for any young player so you don'y just yank them out after the first mistake.

I don't think anyone should be expecting him be an "otherworldly" pass/ball handler but he is very good at those things and has the potential to get even better at them, so why not develop that and use it?

Again, he's good at other things too..he's a very good rebounder, a good screener. 69% at the rim last season so he's a good finisher near the rim. He can create his own shot, handle the ball, bring the ball up the floor, initiate the offense.

He's not much of a lob catcher so I wouldn't expect that from him..if he develops as a lob catcher, great - that's icing on the cake but we shouldn't expect that or base his playing time on it since he hasn't really done that much before and most bigs who are very good passers and are good at creating their own shot are not also good lob catchers - it's usually one or the other. If you're expecting a big to do both of them or you're expecting a big to be great at everything, then you better hope to get a pick in the top 10 because that's typically the only way you can land a big who can do it all.

Look at Sabonis. Not a lob catcher but excellent passer, can handle the ball, initiate the offense, attack off the dribble, can rebound. Guys like Jokic, Sabonis and Sengun is who Amari should be watching. Even if he doesn't end up being as good as those guys, he can be a lite version of them and still be a very capable backup big - but you likely have to give it time, be patient and wait till next season before he starts getting consistent rotation mins. Because that is typically the team's approach with these younger guys / draft picks / fringe players..develop in the g for a year and then see if they're ready for the rotation (Hugo is the exception, not the rule). Imo, that's why Amari's mins with the big club have been limited - rather than limitations with his game.

[Parliament10]

With all the Trade talk of late.:

1) What does everyone think about using Amari as a 3rd Center, on the Boston Celtics, during the Regular Season?
2) And see(ing) if he can be our 3rd Center going into the Playoffs, after potentially Converting his Two-Way, late in the NBA Season?

[brackdan70]

With all the Trade talk of late.:

1) What does everyone think about using Amari as a 3rd Center, on the Boston Celtics, during the Regular Season?
2) And see(ing) if he can be our 3rd Center going into the Playoffs, after potentially Converting his Two-Way, late in the NBA Season?

Seems like a very logical plan to me.

[ryan in Maine]

With all the Trade talk of late.:

1) What does everyone think about using Amari as a 3rd Center, on the Boston Celtics, during the Regular Season?
2) And see(ing) if he can be our 3rd Center going into the Playoffs, after potentially Converting his Two-Way, late in the NBA Season?

Seems like a very logical plan to me.

He's the kind of big we flirt with, given his versatility and ball movement, is he not? If he shows similar competency in minutes minutes you've gotta reward him.

How's his offhand? I thought it looked like it needed work, but I've also seen him finish right a number of times now with a fairly soft touch.

[Parliament10]

With all the Trade talk of late.:

1) What does everyone think about using Amari as a 3rd Center, on the Boston Celtics, during the Regular Season?
2) And see(ing) if he can be our 3rd Center going into the Playoffs, after potentially Converting his Two-Way, late in the NBA Season?

Seems like a very logical plan to me.

He's the kind of big we flirt with, given his versatility and ball movement, is he not? If he shows similar competency in minutes minutes you've gotta reward him.

How's his offhand? I thought it looked like it needed work, but I've also seen him finish right a number of times now with a fairly soft touch.

Very versatile. Brings the ball up. -- If he could make a 3, he'd really be dangerous.
By-the-way, he took 3 shots in one of the G League Games. Didn't make any, but he teeters on being a really good player.

[darrendaye]

With all the Trade talk of late.:

1) What does everyone think about using Amari as a 3rd Center, on the Boston Celtics, during the Regular Season?
2) And see(ing) if he can be our 3rd Center going into the Playoffs, after potentially Converting his Two-Way, late in the NBA Season?

Especially with Garza signed for next year, I wouldn't convert to NBA contract this year as I'd want to maximize my center group by remaining flexible for a draft pick or trade opportunity.

[Parliament10]

With all the Trade talk of late.:

1) What does everyone think about using Amari as a 3rd Center, on the Boston Celtics, during the Regular Season?
2) And see(ing) if he can be our 3rd Center going into the Playoffs, after potentially Converting his Two-Way, late in the NBA Season?

Especially with Garza signed for next year, I wouldn't convert to NBA contract this year as I'd want to maximize my center group by remaining flexible for a draft pick or trade opportunity.

Definitely. -- We'll see as we go.
Gotta have flexibility.

[sam_I_am]

How many 5s played point center for their high-level college team? Got a g-league triple-dub a month into their first season? Amari's got several elite skills, including his feel for the game, as a big man. Of course, he's not maxed them out or proven them at that level at this point. But he's very promising for what he can do.

Derik Queen just did that at the NBA level. That's what I would consider elite.

Derik Queen - if he can control his weight and stay healthy - is going to be a fun player. He reminds me of a combination of Antoine Walker and John “Hot Plate” Williams.